In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On November 27 2016 12:48 LegalLord wrote: Let them. The result is a solid electoral victory for Trump, beyond anything but a deliberate and systematic counting error. Plus I do enjoy the hypocrisy from some Clinton supporters in the face of the electoral upset.
Didn't she already concede on election night? As far as I'm concerned, Clinton participating in this recount thing is just for the sake of trying to save her bruised ego.
Well Stein has raised 6 million dollars for this recount, no surprises the vast majority would have come from Hillary supporters.Hillary is just backing her supporters financial investment.
On that note any word to whether the recounts in Michigan and PA will even happen?
On November 27 2016 12:48 LegalLord wrote: Let them. The result is a solid electoral victory for Trump, beyond anything but a deliberate and systematic counting error. Plus I do enjoy the hypocrisy from some Clinton supporters in the face of the electoral upset.
Didn't she already concede on election night? As far as I'm concerned, Clinton participating in this recount thing is just for the sake of trying to save her bruised ego.
Well Stein has raised 6 million dollars for this recount, no surprises the vast majority would have come from Hillary supporters.Hillary is just backing her supporters financial investment.
On that note any word to whether the recounts in Michigan and PA will even happen?
They Wisconson recount was only filed like an hour before the deadline so I would expect something similar with PA and Michigan. Pa deadline is November 28th, Michigan cannot officially be asked for yet since the official result is only coming out on monday. donno what the deadline on that one is.
Tribe calls on President Obama again to deny easement and honor treaty
Cannon Ball, N.D. — The following statement from the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe’s Chairman, Dave Archambault II, can be quoted in part or in full.
“Today we were notified by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that on Dec. 5th, they will close all lands north of the Cannonball River, which is where Oceti Sakowin camp is located. The letter states that the lands will be closed to public access for safety concerns, and that they will allow for a “free speech zone” south of the Cannonball River on Army Corps lands.
Our Tribe is deeply disappointed in this decision by the United States, but our resolve to protect our water is stronger than ever. We ask that all everyone who can appeal to President Obama and the Army Corps of Engineers to consider the future of our people and rescind all permits and deny the easement to cross the Missouri River just north of our Reservation and straight through our treaty lands. When Dakota Access Pipeline chose this route, they did not consider our strong opposition. Our concerns were clearly articulated directly to them in a meeting on Sept. 30, 2014. We have released that audio recording from our council meeting where DAPL and the ND Public Service Commission came to us with this route.
We ask that the United States stop the pipeline and move it outside our treaty lands.
It is both unfortunate and ironic that this announcement comes the day after this country celebrates Thanksgiving – a historic exchange of goodwill between Native Americans and the first immigrants from Europe. Although the news is saddening, it is not at all surprising given the last 500 years of the treatment of our people. We have suffered much, but we still have hope that the President will act on his commitment to close the chapter of broken promises to our people and especially our children.”
I'm fine with people who want a recount. They can be sore losers if they want it. I wasn't appalled when Trump said he wouldn't necessarily accept results if he lost (which is fair if you're saying the system is rigged), so why would I be appalled now?
Tribe calls on President Obama again to deny easement and honor treaty
Cannon Ball, N.D. — The following statement from the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe’s Chairman, Dave Archambault II, can be quoted in part or in full.
“Today we were notified by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that on Dec. 5th, they will close all lands north of the Cannonball River, which is where Oceti Sakowin camp is located. The letter states that the lands will be closed to public access for safety concerns, and that they will allow for a “free speech zone” south of the Cannonball River on Army Corps lands.
Our Tribe is deeply disappointed in this decision by the United States, but our resolve to protect our water is stronger than ever. We ask that all everyone who can appeal to President Obama and the Army Corps of Engineers to consider the future of our people and rescind all permits and deny the easement to cross the Missouri River just north of our Reservation and straight through our treaty lands. When Dakota Access Pipeline chose this route, they did not consider our strong opposition. Our concerns were clearly articulated directly to them in a meeting on Sept. 30, 2014. We have released that audio recording from our council meeting where DAPL and the ND Public Service Commission came to us with this route.
We ask that the United States stop the pipeline and move it outside our treaty lands.
It is both unfortunate and ironic that this announcement comes the day after this country celebrates Thanksgiving – a historic exchange of goodwill between Native Americans and the first immigrants from Europe. Although the news is saddening, it is not at all surprising given the last 500 years of the treatment of our people. We have suffered much, but we still have hope that the President will act on his commitment to close the chapter of broken promises to our people and especially our children.”
Weren't the official results in those 3 states extremely similar to the exit polls? And the difference in PA was far too large for it to be mistakenly awarded to Trump. I'd understand it if it were a situation like in 2000 when it hinged on 1 state with a very small difference, but this recount seems like an exercise in futility.
On November 28 2016 00:03 Dan HH wrote: Weren't the official results in those 3 states extremely similar to the exit polls? And the difference in PA was far too large for it to be mistakenly awarded to Trump. I'd understand it if it were a situation like in 2000 when it hinged on 1 state with a very small difference, but this recount seems like an exercise in futility.
very few people expect this to change the result. and none of the more normal people. The cynical belief is that this is Jill Stein gathering a list of potential donors for future efforts.
Tribe calls on President Obama again to deny easement and honor treaty
Cannon Ball, N.D. — The following statement from the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe’s Chairman, Dave Archambault II, can be quoted in part or in full.
“Today we were notified by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that on Dec. 5th, they will close all lands north of the Cannonball River, which is where Oceti Sakowin camp is located. The letter states that the lands will be closed to public access for safety concerns, and that they will allow for a “free speech zone” south of the Cannonball River on Army Corps lands.
Our Tribe is deeply disappointed in this decision by the United States, but our resolve to protect our water is stronger than ever. We ask that all everyone who can appeal to President Obama and the Army Corps of Engineers to consider the future of our people and rescind all permits and deny the easement to cross the Missouri River just north of our Reservation and straight through our treaty lands. When Dakota Access Pipeline chose this route, they did not consider our strong opposition. Our concerns were clearly articulated directly to them in a meeting on Sept. 30, 2014. We have released that audio recording from our council meeting where DAPL and the ND Public Service Commission came to us with this route.
We ask that the United States stop the pipeline and move it outside our treaty lands.
It is both unfortunate and ironic that this announcement comes the day after this country celebrates Thanksgiving – a historic exchange of goodwill between Native Americans and the first immigrants from Europe. Although the news is saddening, it is not at all surprising given the last 500 years of the treatment of our people. We have suffered much, but we still have hope that the President will act on his commitment to close the chapter of broken promises to our people and especially our children.”
On November 27 2016 13:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think the funniest meme of this election is everyone shitting down Trump's throat for refusing to say he'd accept the election after Clinton said she would.
Now Clinton is actually fighting the results of the election and these same people are okey dokey
Uh, from what I saw, the Clinton camp said they don't think there's evidence of election fraud or anything, but since a recount is happening, they're participating to try to make sure it's done right. You have to squint pretty hard for that to look the same as "they're going to rig the election, I won't accept the result unless I win"
Well, to be fair, here is what Trump actually said:
It's absolutely troubling to say that, but it's also definitely not saying "I won't accept the result unless I win." It's "I feel like the system is rigged against me, I want to look into it before I concede if I lose."
He kept it under wraps in the debate, which is to his credit. Hillary went on to say, and let me remind you this is after Trump's "i'll have to see," that the very notion was horrifying
Well, Chris, let me respond to that because it's horrifying -Hillary Clinton
She does a good job connecting it to other Trump crap that reflects badly on him. But her first response was being horrified at even the thought. So all this flak going back at her lawyers being paid to oversee the recounts is well deserved.
Her continued participation does delay what hopefully will be a Democrat party shift away from Clintonian power players and into a younger generation of liberals. But they have time. Just take the first things Trump does in office, say the $1.0T stimulus going towards lobbyist interests, and let someone speak beside Schumer/Pelosi to carry the mantle.
On November 27 2016 13:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think the funniest meme of this election is everyone shitting down Trump's throat for refusing to say he'd accept the election after Clinton said she would.
Now Clinton is actually fighting the results of the election and these same people are okey dokey
Uh, from what I saw, the Clinton camp said they don't think there's evidence of election fraud or anything, but since a recount is happening, they're participating to try to make sure it's done right. You have to squint pretty hard for that to look the same as "they're going to rig the election, I won't accept the result unless I win"
Well, to be fair, here is what Trump actually said:
It's absolutely troubling to say that, but it's also definitely not saying "I won't accept the result unless I win." It's "I feel like the system is rigged against me, I want to look into it before I concede if I lose."
You have to consider the other things he said too, not just at the debate. Trump said "the election is rigged" many times, called for people to monitor polling places, his party tried to suppress voters on the theory it's rigged, and he said he'd only accept the results if he won.
Hillary's team looked into the results quietly (the electronic results I believe), which is understandable considering the hackings that took place against her. Hillary's team then said publicly they have found no evidence. There's no equivalence to be drawn here.
This is a pretty good illustration of why Trump's team probably won't do the more extreme things he talked about during his campaign, e.g., creating a database of all muslims in the US. Which raises an interesting question - why did he say those things during the campaign? It could only have been to gin up support. It's like Fox News saying "fair and balanced" - they only say that because people actually believe it.
On a side-note, Republicans are doing recount hand-wringing of their own in North Carolina in the Governor's race, where the Democrat leads by some ~7,700 votes and the official line from the sitting Republican governor is that the margin almost entirely due to voter fraud in one particular county-to the point where he will concede the election if there's a recount there.
On November 27 2016 13:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think the funniest meme of this election is everyone shitting down Trump's throat for refusing to say he'd accept the election after Clinton said she would.
Now Clinton is actually fighting the results of the election and these same people are okey dokey
Uh, from what I saw, the Clinton camp said they don't think there's evidence of election fraud or anything, but since a recount is happening, they're participating to try to make sure it's done right. You have to squint pretty hard for that to look the same as "they're going to rig the election, I won't accept the result unless I win"
Well, to be fair, here is what Trump actually said:
It's absolutely troubling to say that, but it's also definitely not saying "I won't accept the result unless I win." It's "I feel like the system is rigged against me, I want to look into it before I concede if I lose."
That isn't even bad. It just makes it all the funnier that they're trying to change the outcome of the election now
On November 27 2016 13:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think the funniest meme of this election is everyone shitting down Trump's throat for refusing to say he'd accept the election after Clinton said she would.
Now Clinton is actually fighting the results of the election and these same people are okey dokey
Uh, from what I saw, the Clinton camp said they don't think there's evidence of election fraud or anything, but since a recount is happening, they're participating to try to make sure it's done right. You have to squint pretty hard for that to look the same as "they're going to rig the election, I won't accept the result unless I win"
Well, to be fair, here is what Trump actually said:
It's absolutely troubling to say that, but it's also definitely not saying "I won't accept the result unless I win." It's "I feel like the system is rigged against me, I want to look into it before I concede if I lose."
That isn't even bad. It just makes it all the funnier that they're trying to change the outcome of the election now
Yes because Jill Stein is a well known Clinton shill who definitely didn't try to cannibalize votes from her.
This is Stein pulling a spectacle to get interest for herself and the greens, Clinton sending a few people over to check things out is hardly any actual effort.
There's a major red flag of bias when you're saying 1) Trump's debate comments should be his only statement taken into account regarding the election being rigged, 2) Trump's debate comments weren't bad, and 3) Hillary is pushing recounts.
EPT
