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Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion. -semioldguy |
On September 14 2012 03:39 kamikami wrote: Seriously in Arab countries do they make movies that attack other religions ? If yes they don't have right to whine about other countries making movies bashing their religion. There's no justification for the killings.
I don't think they have any justification whether or not they make videos. It's a fucking video, I don't care what it says, that is never a justification for attacking people, for violence, for killing a man.
As for the guy who make the video - well, you finally achieved what you wanted. You wanted to incite hatred, violence, anger, you wanted your name in the press. Don't give me shit about this being freedom of speech - you make a video that attacks Islam you know that there will be repercussions, justified or not. This death is entirely on your head, as much as it is on those who attacked the embassy.
This is why Europe has rules against inciting hatred and attacking religions. Frankly free speech is used to protect bigots in this country, who can then hide from the fallout of their hateful actions. RIP Mr Stevens, my thoughts with your family.
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On September 14 2012 04:15 DannyJ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:05 s3rp wrote:On September 14 2012 03:51 ranshaked wrote: Time to take all Americans out of the middle east, cut trade with them, stop funding them, and bring our troops home!
You can't reason with radical Islamists. It's a pity that the innocents are stuck in the middle. Have fun without any oil from the middle east. Your own resources are not nearly suffiecient enough to withstand the demand even if you started drilling everywhere possible. Gas prices would explode in the US and not just those. Hell with the oil companies/republicans basically blocking/ignoring renewable enegy development you'll even get problems with your energy management. the US gets around 15% of it's oil from the middle East, almost all of it from Saudi Arabia.
Thats still a substantial amount that would not be so easy to replace without major increases in gas/oil prices.
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Situations like this always remind me of Super Best Friends episode of South Park. Pre-9/11 insults to Muhammad were not a big deal. Sure it wasn't as demeaning, but still.. No large backlash, no protests around the world. And that is fucking South Park. This is a youtube video no one knew existed until this became news.
People also need to relax about the protesters actions. The incident in Libya seems to be more of a preplanned military style assault that happened to gain easier cover under a protest. Besides that specific action, the others seem tame. I have seen worse fall out after soccer games, and with more casualties. Yet I don't hear people talking about how soccer fans are inherently violent, and should start watching a new sport. People get mad, vent their frustrations and move on with their lives.
Some people will use it for their own devices. Others will simply let that anger burn out.
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OP, Please put this in your first post. I think it's important.
'This does not represent us': Pro-American rallies in Libya after terrorist attack that killed ambassador Chris Stevens http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202857/This-does-represent-Pro-American-rallies-Libya-terrorist-attack-killed-ambassador-Chris-Stevens.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Pro-American supporters have taken to the streets in Libya today to distance themselves from the rocket attack which killed U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens.
The diplomat, who has campaigned for peace in the Middle East, was killed by militants in the city of Benghazi on Tuesday.
Youngsters were among those who waved placards which stated 'this does not represent us' to express their dismay at the attacks.
One photograph shows a child holding a banner, which although containing some spelling mistakes had a clear message: 'Sorry people of America this is not the behaviour of our Islam and prophet,' it read.
Scribbled on another sign was the simple phrase 'Benghazi is against terrorism' while a third professed affection for the 52-year-old exclaiming: 'Chris Stevens was a friend to all Libyans.'
A placard written in Arabic sent out a message to those attempting to exert their power on the war-torn country.
It said: 'No to al Qaeda, no to violence, this is a youth revolution.'
Another read: 'No No No to Al Qaeda.'
The rally came the day after Mr Stevens became the first U.S. ambassador to be killed by terrorism in 33 years.
Stevens was struck down in a rocket attack by forces unleashed after Muammar Gaddafi's power crumbled - an uprising the ambassador had strongly supported.
Edit: Yes, I know this is the daily mail. -_- Putting up similar article from different source. 'This Does Not Represent Us': Moving Photos of Pro-American Rallies in Libya http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/does-not-represent-us-moving-photos-pro-american-rallies-libya/56803/
Just like not all Americans are like the people who made the weird anti-Islam movie that is sparking protests in Muslim nations, not all people in Libya are like the ones who killed U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens. Some of the people of Benghazi, where Stevens was killed, held a demonstration against terrorism and to show sympathy for the U.S. Libya Alhurra TV, an Internet TV channel founded at the start of the Arab Spring in 2011, posted Facebook photos of a rally there showing support for America and sympathy for Stevens. Here are some of those pictures:
Update: With the help from The Atlantic's multilingual Heather Horn and some Facebook commenters, we have a few translations of the Arabic signs. Pictures are the same!
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Reuters reporting that Libya has arrested four "suspected of helping instigate the events at the U.S. Consulate".
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This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiution is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker...
User was warned for this post
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On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker...
Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile.
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On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century.
edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it.
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On September 14 2012 05:41 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century. edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it. they get their faith from the same book, the same way the Westboro Baptist Church and Mother Teresa get their faith from the same book. being from the same religion does not mean you share all the same views any more than being an atheist means I share views with Stalin.
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On September 14 2012 05:41 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century. edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it.
I don't want to argue religion. I'm just presenting another side to the story.
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On September 14 2012 05:41 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century. edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it.
They don't get their views/faith from the same book. All of the extrememists get their views from radical "clerks" that interpret scripture written over a millenium ago in way that is not appropriate anymore. These are the kind people that radicalize others to widen their own influence. Extremism in general is wrong and produces nutjob foundamentalists.
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On September 14 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:41 Silidons wrote:On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century. edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it. They don't get their views/faith from the same book. All of the extrememists get their views from radical "clerks" that interpret scripture written over a millenium ago in way that is not appropriate anymore. These are the kind people that radicalize others to widen their own influence. Extremism in general is wrong and produces nutjob foundamentalists.
This is pretty much spot on, although every Muslim gains some knowledge from the Qur'an, extremist or not. I can't think for the life of me the arabic word for the "clerks" you're referring to; these people do, in fact, interpret words from an ancient time and try to appropriate them, which in most cases devolves into literal interpretations due to the fact that Islamic extremism is primarily a conservative movement, to a modern context.
Everyone in this thread needs to acknowledge these terrorist acts are caused by ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS and not Muslims as a whole. By generalizing them you are no greater than the people who senselessly bash Americans for being fat and uneducated.
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On September 14 2012 06:16 neversummer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:On September 14 2012 05:41 Silidons wrote:On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century. edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it. They don't get their views/faith from the same book. All of the extrememists get their views from radical "clerks" that interpret scripture written over a millenium ago in way that is not appropriate anymore. These are the kind people that radicalize others to widen their own influence. Extremism in general is wrong and produces nutjob foundamentalists. This is pretty much spot on, although every Muslim gains some knowledge from the Qur'an, extremist or not. I can't think for the life of me the arabic word for the "clerks" you're referring to; these people do, in fact, interpret words from an ancient time and try to appropriate them, which in most cases devolves into literal interpretations due to the fact that Islamic extremism is primarily a conservative movement, to a modern context. Everyone in this thread needs to acknowledge these terrorist acts are caused by ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS and not Muslims as a whole. By generalizing them you are no greater than the people who senselessly bash Americans for being fat and uneducated.
The word is Imam, if you want to use the word equal to priest , but i chose not to use it . I'm not sure how many of the radical leaders are actually Imams .
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On September 14 2012 06:27 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:16 neversummer wrote:On September 14 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:On September 14 2012 05:41 Silidons wrote:On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century. edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it. They don't get their views/faith from the same book. All of the extrememists get their views from radical "clerks" that interpret scripture written over a millenium ago in way that is not appropriate anymore. These are the kind people that radicalize others to widen their own influence. Extremism in general is wrong and produces nutjob foundamentalists. This is pretty much spot on, although every Muslim gains some knowledge from the Qur'an, extremist or not. I can't think for the life of me the arabic word for the "clerks" you're referring to; these people do, in fact, interpret words from an ancient time and try to appropriate them, which in most cases devolves into literal interpretations due to the fact that Islamic extremism is primarily a conservative movement, to a modern context. Everyone in this thread needs to acknowledge these terrorist acts are caused by ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS and not Muslims as a whole. By generalizing them you are no greater than the people who senselessly bash Americans for being fat and uneducated. The word is Imam, if you want to use the word equal to priest , but i chose not to use it . I'm not sure how many of the radical leaders are actually Imams .
I think they are called 'mullahs'
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On September 14 2012 05:41 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century. edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it.
You don't know any muslim, it's obvious. If I was you, i wouldn't speak about something I don't know. But it seems that I was grown with different values.
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On September 14 2012 06:27 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:27 s3rp wrote:On September 14 2012 06:16 neversummer wrote:On September 14 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:On September 14 2012 05:41 Silidons wrote:On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century. edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it. They don't get their views/faith from the same book. All of the extrememists get their views from radical "clerks" that interpret scripture written over a millenium ago in way that is not appropriate anymore. These are the kind people that radicalize others to widen their own influence. Extremism in general is wrong and produces nutjob foundamentalists. This is pretty much spot on, although every Muslim gains some knowledge from the Qur'an, extremist or not. I can't think for the life of me the arabic word for the "clerks" you're referring to; these people do, in fact, interpret words from an ancient time and try to appropriate them, which in most cases devolves into literal interpretations due to the fact that Islamic extremism is primarily a conservative movement, to a modern context. Everyone in this thread needs to acknowledge these terrorist acts are caused by ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS and not Muslims as a whole. By generalizing them you are no greater than the people who senselessly bash Americans for being fat and uneducated. The word is Imam, if you want to use the word equal to priest , but i chose not to use it . I'm not sure how many of the radical leaders are actually Imams . I think they are called 'mullahs'
Well Imam is the leader of a muslim community/mosque. Mullah is just someone that studied the Koran. So both are kinda right.
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On September 12 2012 19:53 redviper wrote: Its completely over the top to call the militants terrorists.
Also this is what comes from supporting the rebels in order to profit from oil.
they shot a rocket at an embassy.
terrorists.
and are you seriously trying to rationalize why they should be allowed to do something like that? wow.
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For me this is purely another one of those extremist Zionist vs extremist Muslim situation.
my thoughts on this one "My son, I wouldn't touch that with a sixty-foot pole."
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On September 14 2012 06:16 neversummer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:On September 14 2012 05:41 Silidons wrote:On September 14 2012 04:49 Brindled wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 FlilFlam wrote: This video scares me...
This thread scares me...
This planet scares me...
As an atheist I do however find it darkly amusing that the overboiling pot of religious hatred from all sides is going to fulfill their own prophecies and fuck up the world's people beyond reasonable repair when the very point and stated purpose of a religious instiutions is to "save the world and its people, and generally make it a better, happier, place".
RIP to the victims...
Violence, murder and general harm are abhorrent in all forms outside the narrowest limits of self defense.
The world grows darker... Friend, I think you should look at my post above. The pictures in my news links may make you smile. Can you explain to me how those people, and those who fly planes into buildings, and kill innocent people just because they're American and someone in America made a film about their religion, both get their faith from the same exact book? Those same people in the pictures you posted are against free speech. The women are covered up, and they would not like it if you drew a picture of their prophet. They won't kill you (like the "extremists" do) but they still are not in touch with the 21st century and the implied rights that it comes with in a large majority of nations around the world. Islam in its current form is not viable in the 21st century. edit: I hope this doesn't go against the note at the top of the thread, but I don't see how this isn't a religious discussion when the intent is entirely religious. Please just erase my post if this goes against it. They don't get their views/faith from the same book. All of the extrememists get their views from radical "clerks" that interpret scripture written over a millenium ago in way that is not appropriate anymore. These are the kind people that radicalize others to widen their own influence. Extremism in general is wrong and produces nutjob foundamentalists. This is pretty much spot on, although every Muslim gains some knowledge from the Qur'an, extremist or not. I can't think for the life of me the arabic word for the "clerks" you're referring to; these people do, in fact, interpret words from an ancient time and try to appropriate them, which in most cases devolves into literal interpretations due to the fact that Islamic extremism is primarily a conservative movement, to a modern context. Everyone in this thread needs to acknowledge these terrorist acts are caused by ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS and not Muslims as a whole. By generalizing them you are no greater than the people who senselessly bash Americans for being fat and uneducated.
Well said. Condemning Islam and classifying it as "not viable in the 21st century" over the actions of a minority of extremists is like condemning Christianity due to the actions of the KKK.
http://www.bridgeport.edu/Media/Website Resources/documents/faculty/publications/intlcollege/SharedTrajectory.pdf
Yeah, I know, the kkk's heyday was like OVER FIFTY YEARS AGO. Religious toleration, including recognizing that one ought not condemn the beliefs of a largely peaceful group due to the actions of fringe extremists, ought to be an enduring concept.
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