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Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion. -semioldguy |
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
While we should be tolerant of a religion's beliefs, I think that ANY notion of attacking another, fatally, over religion should be stamped out. While the example I gave above isn't exactly optimal, it would probably get the job done. I'm welcome to other suggestions, though. The people that would suffer the worst out of this would sadly be the tolerant Muslims themselves, who don't even believe in killing another over their god.
I'm really sad because I believe for humankind, as a whole, to progress (into space and such), such religious notions are absolutely detrimental. And for the loss of human lives, whether they be Libyans or Americans.
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Those extremists are fucking sickening
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Well let's see here... We know what happens when you piss off extremists... No one wants America in the middle east, soldiers or diplomats. You're in the second most dangerous region on the planet, in a country fresh of an unresolved civil war. We of course let another Israeli fuck things up and then we act outraged at the results. Play with fire, world police, it's incredible these things don't happen more often.
And then back home, the typical facebookers, "Ohhh Islam so much more violent than Christianity ever was." Yes, let's throw masses of people under the bus based on the acts of a few who hide behind their faith, usually their political interests or special assignments, but we blame them because they're Muslims, and muslims = bad in 'Merika.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right?
let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions.
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On September 13 2012 13:24 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right? let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions.
The 2 things aren't even close to being the same thing.
Mocking something like religion, and hating someone for the color of their skin ;\
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On September 13 2012 13:27 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:24 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right? let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions. The 2 things aren't even close to being the same thing. Mocking something like religion, and hating someone for the color of their skin ;\
I believe you're incorrect, but if you want to keep it about religion:
let's say a Christian in a bad part of town makes an off-colour joke and gets shot by some Jews. you're effectively proposing that staging neo-Nazi demonstrations all over the country every week in response will relieve religious tensions.
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On September 13 2012 13:29 stormtemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:27 Sadist wrote:On September 13 2012 13:24 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right? let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions. The 2 things aren't even close to being the same thing. Mocking something like religion, and hating someone for the color of their skin ;\ Intentionally mocking someone's deepest beliefs is okay if you disagree with then?
Only if your deepest beliefs allow you to. That seems to be the mentality of this triangular extremist monotheistic blood train.
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On September 13 2012 13:27 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:24 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right? let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions. The 2 things aren't even close to being the same thing. Mocking something like religion, and hating someone for the color of their skin ;\
Maybe you should understand culture differences ard realize not everyone is like you?
Muslims would find it less offensive for you to slap them across the face than insult their prophet. Attacking their skin color is several levels lower than attacking their prophet to them. Notice the to them part of the sentence.
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On September 13 2012 13:34 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:27 Sadist wrote:On September 13 2012 13:24 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right? let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions. The 2 things aren't even close to being the same thing. Mocking something like religion, and hating someone for the color of their skin ;\ I believe you're incorrect, but if you want to keep it about religion: let's say a Christian in a bad part of town makes an off-colour joke and gets shot by some Jews. you're effectively proposing that staging neo-Nazi demonstrations all over the country every week in response will relieve religious tensions.
First, who says anyone has to participate in these demonstrations? Second, isn't it better to allow an open expression of thought and address it with rational discussion rather than suppress and silence it and have it boil over into violence? The true test of a free society is when our principles are challenged, not cherry picked in politically correct easier times.
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On September 13 2012 13:21 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Well let's see here... We know what happens when you piss off extremists... No one wants America in the middle east, soldiers or diplomats. You're in the second most dangerous region on the planet, in a country fresh of an unresolved civil war. We of course let another Israeli fuck things up and then we act outraged at the results. Play with fire, world police, it's incredible these things don't happen more often.
And then back home, the typical facebookers, "Ohhh Islam so much more violent than Christianity ever was." Yes, let's throw masses of people under the bus based on the acts of a few who hide behind their faith, usually their political interests or special assignments, but we blame them because they're Muslims, and muslims = bad in 'Merika.
Noone should have to live in fear of extremists. And taking an international relations class would be incredibly helpful when expressing opinions on the American "world police".
Cutting aid to Egypt and Lybia would be a more effective move than parking some destroyers and putting a company of Marines on standby.
Also, the story has changed a few times since I heard about what happened this morning and there are quite a few people talking about the attack (not riot) being planned?
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Northern Ireland27325 Posts
On September 13 2012 06:01 remedium wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:27 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 13 2012 05:23 Voltaire wrote:On September 13 2012 05:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 13 2012 05:11 Leporello wrote:On September 13 2012 05:06 Zaqwert wrote:On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote:
This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes it does. The KKK is allowed to march in the streets and shout white power, the Westboro morons are allowed to say whatever crazy things they want about gays. And thank goodness for it. Do you really want the government having the authority to decided what ideas and beliefs people are allowed to have? Our government does it all the time. You're allowed to be a KKK member, but you're not allowed to berate black people on the street. You'll be given a disturbance charge at the very least. There are certain behaviors that are, in fact, criminal, without being directly violent. Treason trumps everything. You do not have "free speech" to provoke the death of Americans. Well the KKK is a special case. They gave up their right to free speech with acts of violence and domestic terrorism that forced the FBI to treat them as a criminal organization. The Westboro Baptists are in many ways preaching WORSE shit than the KKK used to, but we tolerate them (albeit with clenched teeth) because they are just using words, the minute they start acting on the shit they preach with bombs, lynch mobs and automatic weapons, you can guarantee they'll lose their freedom of speech, and none of us will bat an eye at it. They will never lose freedom of speech (and rightly so). If they start "acting" on things, they will be arrested for the crimes they commit. That's different than losing freedom of speech. Well, think about it for a second. It used to be OK to walk in the streets of Washington DC, dressed in full KKK regalia, espousing their rhetoric, Picture: KKK march in Washington DC. + Show Spoiler +Do you think that organization will ever be able to, or that individuals will ever be able to do anything like that again? Absolutely not. Why? Because the uniforms and rhetoric of that organization is now years later so closely linked to the real violence committed by that organization that it's no longer deemed free speech, but rather hate speech and threatens to incite violence. Yea...you're wrong. Is it likely that we will ever see a large KKK march again? No. Is it legal? Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio
There's enshrined legality in doing these kind of things, but equally law enforcement and the likes stop have de facto powers in stopping such rallies if they feel it affects public order. Just look at how some of the Occupy protests were treated when they were going on.
Sad event, sad we're having yet another discussion after another one of these shitstorms again. Fucking ridiculous people.
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Look, it's simple: Any system of ideas that advocates murder because of a series of cartoons is...nuts.
There's only one answer to this very simple statement: NO! Faith! Faith! FAITH!
Faith....
That is...that emotional reaction incapable of being defended logically.
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On September 13 2012 13:41 screamingpalm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:34 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:27 Sadist wrote:On September 13 2012 13:24 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right? let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions. The 2 things aren't even close to being the same thing. Mocking something like religion, and hating someone for the color of their skin ;\ I believe you're incorrect, but if you want to keep it about religion: let's say a Christian in a bad part of town makes an off-colour joke and gets shot by some Jews. you're effectively proposing that staging neo-Nazi demonstrations all over the country every week in response will relieve religious tensions. First, who says anyone has to participate in these demonstrations? Second, isn't it better to allow an open expression of thought and address it with rational discussion rather than suppress and silence it and have it boil over into violence? The true test of a free society is when our principles are challenged, not cherry picked in politically correct easier times.
re your first point: I think you misunderstood why I'm talking about this analogy, so I'll just ask you to reread the page. if that doesn't clear things up, feel free to bring it up again.
second: yes, it is. I don't think that was the cause of the Libyan attack, though. (afaik their religious views weren't being suppressed here)
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On September 13 2012 13:51 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 06:01 remedium wrote:On September 13 2012 05:27 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 13 2012 05:23 Voltaire wrote:On September 13 2012 05:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 13 2012 05:11 Leporello wrote:On September 13 2012 05:06 Zaqwert wrote:On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote:
This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes it does. The KKK is allowed to march in the streets and shout white power, the Westboro morons are allowed to say whatever crazy things they want about gays. And thank goodness for it. Do you really want the government having the authority to decided what ideas and beliefs people are allowed to have? Our government does it all the time. You're allowed to be a KKK member, but you're not allowed to berate black people on the street. You'll be given a disturbance charge at the very least. There are certain behaviors that are, in fact, criminal, without being directly violent. Treason trumps everything. You do not have "free speech" to provoke the death of Americans. Well the KKK is a special case. They gave up their right to free speech with acts of violence and domestic terrorism that forced the FBI to treat them as a criminal organization. The Westboro Baptists are in many ways preaching WORSE shit than the KKK used to, but we tolerate them (albeit with clenched teeth) because they are just using words, the minute they start acting on the shit they preach with bombs, lynch mobs and automatic weapons, you can guarantee they'll lose their freedom of speech, and none of us will bat an eye at it. They will never lose freedom of speech (and rightly so). If they start "acting" on things, they will be arrested for the crimes they commit. That's different than losing freedom of speech. Well, think about it for a second. It used to be OK to walk in the streets of Washington DC, dressed in full KKK regalia, espousing their rhetoric, Picture: KKK march in Washington DC. + Show Spoiler +Do you think that organization will ever be able to, or that individuals will ever be able to do anything like that again? Absolutely not. Why? Because the uniforms and rhetoric of that organization is now years later so closely linked to the real violence committed by that organization that it's no longer deemed free speech, but rather hate speech and threatens to incite violence. Yea...you're wrong. Is it likely that we will ever see a large KKK march again? No. Is it legal? Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio There's enshrined legality in doing these kind of things, but equally law enforcement and the likes stop have de facto powers in stopping such rallies if they feel it affects public order. Just look at how some of the Occupy protests were treated when they were going on. Sad event, sad we're having yet another discussion after another one of these shitstorms again. Fucking ridiculous people.
The reason the occupy protests were shut down were because they were either:
1) Occupying someone else's land for an indefinite period of time. The parks belonged to the city, so the city had a right to not allow people to camp there indefinitely. Plenty of warnings were given before people were arrested/tents taken down.
2) They blocked traffic. Something like 500 people were arrested for blocking the Brooklyn bridge, but that's only because they were blocking a vital transportation route that NYC really depends on.
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On September 13 2012 13:38 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:27 Sadist wrote:On September 13 2012 13:24 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right? let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions. The 2 things aren't even close to being the same thing. Mocking something like religion, and hating someone for the color of their skin ;\ Maybe you should understand culture differences ard realize not everyone is like you? Muslims would find it less offensive for you to slap them across the face than insult their prophet. Attacking their skin color is several levels lower than attacking their prophet to them. Notice the to them part of the sentence.
I think that's what has to change. The level at which they find it offensive enough to actually kill people for it.
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Northern Ireland27325 Posts
On September 13 2012 13:53 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:51 Wombat_NI wrote:On September 13 2012 06:01 remedium wrote:On September 13 2012 05:27 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 13 2012 05:23 Voltaire wrote:On September 13 2012 05:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 13 2012 05:11 Leporello wrote:On September 13 2012 05:06 Zaqwert wrote:On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote:
This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes it does. The KKK is allowed to march in the streets and shout white power, the Westboro morons are allowed to say whatever crazy things they want about gays. And thank goodness for it. Do you really want the government having the authority to decided what ideas and beliefs people are allowed to have? Our government does it all the time. You're allowed to be a KKK member, but you're not allowed to berate black people on the street. You'll be given a disturbance charge at the very least. There are certain behaviors that are, in fact, criminal, without being directly violent. Treason trumps everything. You do not have "free speech" to provoke the death of Americans. Well the KKK is a special case. They gave up their right to free speech with acts of violence and domestic terrorism that forced the FBI to treat them as a criminal organization. The Westboro Baptists are in many ways preaching WORSE shit than the KKK used to, but we tolerate them (albeit with clenched teeth) because they are just using words, the minute they start acting on the shit they preach with bombs, lynch mobs and automatic weapons, you can guarantee they'll lose their freedom of speech, and none of us will bat an eye at it. They will never lose freedom of speech (and rightly so). If they start "acting" on things, they will be arrested for the crimes they commit. That's different than losing freedom of speech. Well, think about it for a second. It used to be OK to walk in the streets of Washington DC, dressed in full KKK regalia, espousing their rhetoric, Picture: KKK march in Washington DC. + Show Spoiler +Do you think that organization will ever be able to, or that individuals will ever be able to do anything like that again? Absolutely not. Why? Because the uniforms and rhetoric of that organization is now years later so closely linked to the real violence committed by that organization that it's no longer deemed free speech, but rather hate speech and threatens to incite violence. Yea...you're wrong. Is it likely that we will ever see a large KKK march again? No. Is it legal? Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio There's enshrined legality in doing these kind of things, but equally law enforcement and the likes stop have de facto powers in stopping such rallies if they feel it affects public order. Just look at how some of the Occupy protests were treated when they were going on. Sad event, sad we're having yet another discussion after another one of these shitstorms again. Fucking ridiculous people. The reason the occupy protests were shut down were because they were either: 1) Occupying someone else's land for an indefinite period of time. The parks belonged to the city, so the city had a right to not allow people to camp there indefinitely. Plenty of warnings were given before people were arrested/tents taken down. 2) They blocked traffic. Something like 500 people were arrested for blocking the Brooklyn bridge, but that's only because they were blocking a vital transportation route that NYC really depends on.
Those were the two main ones, covered the most and yes those examples are correct. I've heard plenty of stories of both non-invasive protests, and individual protestors being broken up/arrested and what have you. Alas none of my sources over here given that I'm at my girlfriend's place 
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On September 13 2012 13:53 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:41 screamingpalm wrote:On September 13 2012 13:34 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:27 Sadist wrote:On September 13 2012 13:24 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right? let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions. The 2 things aren't even close to being the same thing. Mocking something like religion, and hating someone for the color of their skin ;\ I believe you're incorrect, but if you want to keep it about religion: let's say a Christian in a bad part of town makes an off-colour joke and gets shot by some Jews. you're effectively proposing that staging neo-Nazi demonstrations all over the country every week in response will relieve religious tensions. First, who says anyone has to participate in these demonstrations? Second, isn't it better to allow an open expression of thought and address it with rational discussion rather than suppress and silence it and have it boil over into violence? The true test of a free society is when our principles are challenged, not cherry picked in politically correct easier times. re your first point: I think you misunderstood why I'm talking about this analogy, so I'll just ask you to reread the page. if that doesn't clear things up, feel free to bring it up again. second: yes, it is. I don't think that was the cause of the Libyan attack, though. (afaik their religious views weren't being suppressed here)
Sorry, I see I addressed the wrong comment. 
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On September 13 2012 13:34 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 13:27 Sadist wrote:On September 13 2012 13:24 starfries wrote:On September 13 2012 13:15 fluidin wrote:
I wonder if it would be feasible for the rest of the world to just start producing and releasing videos and material mocking Muhammed, every single week, in a bid to rid these people of their overzealous sensitivity. Perhaps then they will be forced to learn that there is no place in the world for this kind of behavior. While mocking another's religion is not right, taking another human being's life for it is far, far worse.
you're joking, right? let's say a white guy in a bad part of town makes a racist remark and gets shot by some black guys. you're effectively proposing that staging KKK marches all over the country every week in response will relieve racial tensions. The 2 things aren't even close to being the same thing. Mocking something like religion, and hating someone for the color of their skin ;\ I believe you're incorrect, but if you want to keep it about religion: let's say a Christian in a bad part of town makes an off-colour joke and gets shot by some Jews. you're effectively proposing that staging neo-Nazi demonstrations all over the country every week in response will relieve religious tensions.
Not the same. Note how people can actually mock Jews with cartoons and movies and they don't protest worldwide and murder ambassadors for it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://carmelimani.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/knights-of-the-ku-klux-klan-washington-dc-1.jpg)
