• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:33
CEST 02:33
KST 09:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?66Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)8Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!40Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) September World Ranking: herO leads, Serral climbs
Tourneys
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly SC2 INu's Battles#20 [BO.9] 2026 GSTL Announcement Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome
Brood War
General
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5503 users

Smarter people more prone to cognitive bias - Page 8

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 18 Next All
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 13 2012 09:26 GMT
#141
ten cents ... right? the framing of this question is freaking me out.

Honestly, I think it has more to do with 'priming' and familiarity with a certain kind of problem, more than it has to do with a specific discipline.

For example, I'm sure an English major would struggle with Scrabble or a Crossword if they never played/solved one before.

I guess I'm saying I want a second chance to redeem myself LOL.


It is an honest answer that is the best answer in this case. My mind wanted to say a dollar for one, ten cents for the other until I forced myself out of it a whole 30-40 seconds later. And this is KNOWING there's funny business involved, not some random test administered to 4th graders. And MIT, Harvard, and Princeton students verify that intelligence has nothing to do with it (or, it does, but its a hindrance rather than a help). Let's elect the dumbest candidate to the highest offices in government so as to limit the vulnerability to cognitive bias!

I'd like to see more experiments designed with these in mind to really narrow down the causes and expand the implications. For now, I'll throw the bat and ball into that lake filled with lily pads and wager that I'm down a dollar five. Or ... ... (Haha)
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Keitzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2509 Posts
June 13 2012 09:30 GMT
#142
I got 47 and 0.05 for the 2 questions... got a 740/800 on SAT but an 1850 overall... am i uber genius?
I'm like badass squared | KeitZer.489
aseq
Profile Joined January 2003
Netherlands4016 Posts
June 13 2012 09:32 GMT
#143
5 cents, didn't take longer than 1 second. Maybe I've seen a similar question before? I don't know, but I think a lot of this is how fluent you are with numbers. Which just takes a lot of practice. I think a cashier (not regarded as an intelligent job) could do this as well as a computer/math programmer.
Sirion
Profile Joined August 2010
131 Posts
June 13 2012 09:32 GMT
#144
On June 13 2012 17:33 Crazy Eddie wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Hmm, so I had a look at the paper (thanks) and it's hard to articulate how much of a mess this seems to be. The authors write like vicious weasels and I have never seen a more potentially biased paper in any respectable publication.

The selection of data presented gives the impression of a really suspect pattern of entirely avoiding any results that could possibly be harmful to the authors' conclusion. The bit on the second hastily addressed study lacks what would seem to be very necessary and relevant discussion on why and how the participants differ so much from the participants of the first study of all college students, and avoids the majority of the "bias questions" the authors purport to study in the first place.

The first thing I took away, and cannot stress enough, is how subpar the students involved in the study are. To anyone who wasn't sure or thought this was an "ivy-league" school or anything similar - rest assured it's not. It stands out glaringly, to many Americans that would be as soon as one learns this was done at JMU, but the authors mention the necessary statistics regardless. The participants in the study reported SAT scores close to the institution means - 1140 math+reading total. For those not familiar with the SAT, that's completely unimpressive compared to many, many other American universities. JMU students are by and large the rejects of any more prestigious universities of the several nearby states. These are community college level students, especially as the majority of students in the study were freshmen (first year at the university, and as the authors report, median age arond 19).

Likewise the results on the CRT, the three trick-sounding questions which everyone is making a big deal about, are abysmal for these participants. The authors report a mean of 0.79, with 50% or 241 of the participants getting none correct, (lol) and only 27 or 5.6% getting all 3 correct. This is an extremely poor performance compared to other students at other universities on this same CRT test from previous studies (some probably referenced by authors in this paper).

The first objection I'd raise is the worry that the raw number of students who had high performance on any cognitive metric is too small a sample size. There's no data on the real distribution of SAT scores - whether any participants at all had scores high enough they would be good at a more prestigious university - and only 27 total individuals is of course worrisome for the CRT results. The other cognitive measures were not objective, better-or-worse measures of intelligence or cognition such that they could be used in comparisons towards the authors' overall thesis. Considering individuals had to be split into experimental groups for the bias measures, having an insufficient number of individuals with high performance on the cognitive measures could result in no statistical significance.

What's ridiculously annoying if not scandalous, is that authors did not give any data, NO DATA AT ALL, on the relationship between the students' CRT score and performance on their full set of "bias measures." Performance on the CRT was found to be positively correlated with scores on the other cognitive measures and self-reported test scores, at least that's consistent with other studies. However, to draw their headline conclusions, they only found a lack of correlation between the "bias measures" tested to the bias-blind spot generated from self reports and self-reported SAT scores. The correlations to other cognitive measures were also not tabled. This is questionable in and of itself, and is ridiculous given the the authors' report of "Study 2" where the only data they present on a different group of internet-survey answerers is the CRT results. (Also, the internet survey folks perform far better than the pathetic JMU students on the CRT)

It's worth summarizing one of the bias questions examined to see the obvious, intuitive objections any reasonable person would raise to the specifics of this study. Glossing over the specifics to present final conclusions based on a few statistical correlations and omitting others is not acceptable.

So this one bias question on "anchoring" was based around having participants guess how tall the tallest trees in the world are. The experiment for bias was performed by "framing" the question in two ways (two experimental groups), such as the suggestion the tree was 1000 feet tall, versus framing with a smaller number - 85. That's a tree. A tree. The result for the one group was a mean of guessing 884 ft tall with a standard deviation of 572, and to no real surprise the group framed with the smaller number gave much smaller answers, and presumably almost none of them giving objectively idiotic answers. (As expected the authors found the presence of bias on all the bias measures they tested, consistent with previous studies, for the set of participants as a whole. Nothing interesting there. Remember the whole point of the authors' conclusion is whether the "smarter" participants had less bias than the others.) It's also very annoying that, while "base rate" bias and other related biases are supposedly studied in other questions, the attempt to study a DIFFERENT BIAS is done with an absolutely awful experimental question that mixes in these biases as well. But there's nothing to be said for people who think a tree is over a thousand feet tall. Complete morons.

I really wish the authors had actually provided the data, and we could see whether the handful of students who got all 3 CRT questions correct gave such ridiculous answers on several of the bias questions. There were so few of these students amongst the throng of JMU morons (only 27 total) that the sample size might still not be enough, but it's worth knowing. The authors only report a small correlation between overall SAT scores and bias on this question, as with others, but find it's not significant, which still could be relatively meaningless given the awful SAT scores of all participants all around. If the students who got all of the CRT questions correct, also gave answers such as > 1000 ft trees the same as their peers, then at least the authors are being honest in presenting the results they obtained. Somehow I doubt that, I suspect their performance on the bias questions was much better and they were justified in labeling their peers as morons. (After all, the answer to whether the median JMU student is more susceptible than average to cognitive biases should be very high. It's true as the base rate, y'know)

Thanks for reading the study in detail and summarizing it here. It puts the result into perspective, even though being blind to one's own bias is quite typical for smart people, at least in my experience.
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
June 13 2012 09:47 GMT
#145
Actually I'd prefer to put it one way that I think is easily agreeable.

If someone can't get the right answer or understand why he was wrong fast enough, he's probably just stupid
If someone thinks that former person is smart, he's probably stupid.

And most of all: If an "intelligent" person is completely blind to his own bias (even after proven wrong), he'd most definitely be lacking a certain type of intelligence.

Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 09:50:21
June 13 2012 09:48 GMT
#146
Doesn't this just say that educated/intelligent (or whatever) people should stay sharp, or else one could fall in obvioius traps?

I feel that these kinds of 'logical' flaws are one of the most dangerous traps there are. Even the argument 'i was not interested in the answer' falls into this trap, only indirectly. Laziness in thought (in the direct or indirect way) will lead to weird conclusions.

(this post has actually nothing to do with the article, in hindsight.. :$)
Kyrillion
Profile Joined August 2011
Russian Federation748 Posts
June 13 2012 09:57 GMT
#147
By the way, the story of the ball and the bat may be the most well-known version in the US, but the one I've always heard involves two persons, let's say Savior and Nada :

Nada has ten dollars and Savior has eight. How much does Nada have to give Savior so they have the same sum ? Yeah...
If you seek well, you shall find.
Mindor
Profile Joined December 2011
169 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 10:18:27
June 13 2012 10:10 GMT
#148
Well, I wouldn't say that smart people are completely unaware of their own bias. Sure, their intuition may be just as bad as anyone else's and trusting their instincts may lead them to incorrect answers. But after a while you learn that the logical part of your brain is a whole lot faster than the part that does the actual math. (I know, in primary school my math teacher called my parents in because I had horrible math results while simultaneously winning math contests. I just wasn't interested in counting out the results because in my head I was already a bunch of steps ahead with the "stupidly easy" math test problems. They bored me to tears and I just couldn't focus on adding two and two together properly). At uni I solved the problem by putting literally everything into a calculator and forcing myself not to take shortcuts when writing down the answers. I still have the urge to skip the trivial parts, but once you burn yourself often enough, you're bound to learn. And for this exact reason, smart people that actually solve math problems often enough, won't get caught offguard by simple questions like these.

Edit: Also, what kind of intelligent people are we talking about? One of the smartest people I've ever known was a history teacher at my highschool who was a complete tool at math. He'd sooner hold a two hour presentation on any topic of your choice than solve any of the problems above correctly.
Yggdrasil Leaf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
221 Posts
June 13 2012 10:37 GMT
#149
Meh, there's several kinds of intellegence.
People are strong about one or more things and weak on others (realizing bias?). For example, I suck at math. Big time. Poor me.

All kinds of bias is typical: the academic world is what it is. Even this study probably have some bias (meh).

Well, knowing a lot about stuff or having a pratical skill is not the same as self-awareness, mastering yourself and having good common sense. Developing the ability to think in different perspectives is the hardest thing ever...
The mind apparently wants to draw everything in a stable and secure base...

- After all, skill developing is shaping your instincts to work the best they can in a certain way. A habit develops ... So... Yeah...
That's normal if you want to master something. Habits of practice -> skill -> certain bias... -> or the habits of thinking or doing in a certain way, of course....

Doesn't mean you're stuck in it...
"A person hears only what they understand" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
-Kira
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
352 Posts
June 13 2012 10:38 GMT
#150
People who score higher on SAT does not always equall smarter people. Article is too short and does not offer any usefull information. Also, most likely, there is only a certain "range" where this statement stands true, because the question you gave as example can not trick anyone who is told that he might think of a wrong answer at first (anyone that can be considered smart that is).

1. Only one way of measuring how "smart" someone is
2. Unknown range of intelligence.

This article says nothing.

We have always assumed that homo sapiens are rational.


Speak for yourself. Science is well aware of the fact that we're just animals.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23357 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 10:41:52
June 13 2012 10:40 GMT
#151
1 dollar and 5 cents, 5 cents, right?
I accidently read the first post which said 1 dollar and 10 cents but that doesn't work.
I have a hard time believing people who don't understand the way doubling works are considered "more intelligent" though.
Sparksfly
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom1 Post
June 13 2012 10:46 GMT
#152
It took me 3 hours to figure out why the ball costs 5c lol, because this is how it played out in my mind:

Me: I would like a ball please
Cashier: ok, that will be 10c please
*I hand over 10c*
me: actually, I would like a bat as well please
Cashier: ok, that will be $1 more.
*I hand over $1*
total paid: $1.10

but in reality its:

Me: I would like a ball please
Cashier: ok, that will be 5c please
*I hand over 5c*
Me: actually, can I have a bat instead of the ball please
Cashier: ok, that will be $1 more
*I hand over $1, cashier replaces ball with bat*
Me: sorry to mess you around, I think I do need the ball as well please
Cashier ok, that will be another 5c
*I hand over 5c*
Total paid: $1.10

hope that helps someone else understand why the ball costs 5c
When an SCV repairs; Sparksfly!
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
June 13 2012 10:47 GMT
#153
lol i didnt think there would be people that dont get this^
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23357 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 10:56:40
June 13 2012 10:54 GMT
#154
On June 13 2012 19:46 Sparksfly wrote:
It took me 3 hours to figure out why the ball costs 5c lol, because this is how it played out in my mind:

Me: I would like a ball please
Cashier: ok, that will be 10c please
*I hand over 10c*
me: actually, I would like a bat as well please
Cashier: ok, that will be $1 more.
*I hand over $1*
total paid: $1.10

but in reality its:

Me: I would like a ball please
Cashier: ok, that will be 5c please
*I hand over 5c*
Me: actually, can I have a bat instead of the ball please
Cashier: ok, that will be $1 more
*I hand over $1, cashier replaces ball with bat*
Me: sorry to mess you around, I think I do need the ball as well please
Cashier ok, that will be another 5c
*I hand over 5c*
Total paid: $1.10

hope that helps someone else understand why the ball costs 5c


If you can't work it out intutively surely you can break it down into a simple simultaneous equation (I didn't need to do this for this problem)

x = bat
y = ball
Find y
y + 100 = x ("The bat costs 1 dollar more than the ball")
x+y = 110 ("The bat and th ball costs 1 doller, 10 cents")
y + 100 + y = 110
2 y + 100 = 110
2y = 10
y = 5.

I actually realize you can do most of these awkwardly written questions and break them into simul eqns by reading the problems in paper years ago. Maths is a useful tool for these kinds of things folks, no need to spend 3 hours confusing yourself constantly with English and wording.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 11:00:00
June 13 2012 10:58 GMT
#155
5 cents.

Didn't need math or anything, obviously saw it was a trick question, and just played it out in my head. Does that mean I'm not very smart? o_O

Catch 22 lol

If you get it right, you are dumb.

If you get it wrong, you are dumb.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
snailz
Profile Joined April 2011
Croatia900 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 11:20:43
June 13 2012 11:09 GMT
#156
On June 13 2012 13:19 Galaxy1again wrote:
Asking ambiguous questions with poor punctuation doesn't make intelligent people unintelligent.


qft

when you are aware of trickery in sentence phrasing, it may take 10 second longer just long enough till you realize where the catch actually is in the sentence

other than that, problem solving remains the same, and intelligent person will probably always have faster results than an average one (which may even not get it right)

studies that make false assumptions based on collected data and exclude everything that could contradict their results really get on my nerves, so many of them these days
"I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch." - intrigue
rod-
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway379 Posts
June 13 2012 11:10 GMT
#157
I advice you all to read Thinking fast and slow by Daniel Kahneman.
IMmvp~~
DarthXX
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia998 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 11:53:28
June 13 2012 11:52 GMT
#158
Further, we found that none of these bias blind spots were attenuated by measures of cognitive sophistication such as cognitive ability or thinking dispositions related to bias. If anything, a larger bias blind spot was associated with higher cognitive ability

Method

Participants. The participants were 482 undergraduate students
(122 men, 360 women) from a medium-sized, eastern university
recruited through an introductory psychology subject pool.


lol
Neino
Profile Joined March 2011
Norway295 Posts
June 13 2012 12:08 GMT
#159
This was discouraging.. My brain just announces TEN CENTS instantly.. Came up with 5 after actually calculating though, hate questions like this =p
D4V3Z02
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany693 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-13 12:13:16
June 13 2012 12:12 GMT
#160
I like how the thread title says "Smarter people more pron…" on the TL frontpage. ;..;
http://www.twitch.tv/d4v3z02 all your base are belong to overlord
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 18 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Enki Epic Series #10
Rogue vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings48
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
22:35
GSTL Replay Cast
BASILISK vs Onsyde Gaming
PiGStarcraft401
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft401
ProTech160
NeuroSwarm 124
SpeCial 58
JuggernautJason53
StarCraft: Brood War
White-Ra 153
Hyuk 59
Dota 2
capcasts191
League of Legends
Doublelift4490
Counter-Strike
minikerr27
adren_tv4
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox500
Mew2King102
Other Games
summit1g4745
Day[9].tv761
JimRising 456
C9.Mang0259
WinterStarcraft222
XaKoH 162
KnowMe72
ViBE62
PPMD49
Trikslyr45
Maynarde4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1920
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP30
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• EnkiAlexander 0
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21889
Other Games
• imaqtpie768
• Day9tv761
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
27m
Big Brain Bouts
9h 27m
Garitos vs ArT
Lambo vs Percival
TriGGeR vs ByuN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
OSC
1d 11h
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
1d 14h
Mixu vs TBD
Spirit vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
Patches Events
1d 15h
OSC
1d 23h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs Shuttle
BeSt vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
[ Show More ]
GSL
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Escore
6 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-02
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.