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On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with money get immaculate care.
FTFY
edit: Seriously though, there are some terrible health insurance policies out there. Having a shitload of money in your bank account is the real health "insurance".
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On April 27 2012 02:48 GhostTK wrote:
I hate Mitt Romney. He stands for everythin im against. i really hope he doesn't win. My preferred presidential canidate was Ron Paul, 2 bad he withdrew.
I didn't know Ron Paul withdrew, I heard he had 1/3rd the delegates of Mitt Romney at the moment?
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On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care.
Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital.
Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks.
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On April 27 2012 04:24 Galaxy613 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 02:48 GhostTK wrote:
I hate Mitt Romney. He stands for everythin im against. i really hope he doesn't win. My preferred presidential canidate was Ron Paul, 2 bad he withdrew. I didn't know Ron Paul withdrew, I heard he had 1/3rd the delegates of Mitt Romney at the moment?
Uh, no. He's barely registered when it comes to actual voting. He doesn't even have 1/10th of Romney's delegates.
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On April 27 2012 04:24 Galaxy613 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 02:48 GhostTK wrote:
I hate Mitt Romney. He stands for everythin im against. i really hope he doesn't win. My preferred presidential canidate was Ron Paul, 2 bad he withdrew. I didn't know Ron Paul withdrew, I heard he had 1/3rd the delegates of Mitt Romney at the moment?
He hasn't withdrawn. The amount of delegates he has depends on if you use the imaginary Ron Paul supporter counting method, or the one the mainstream media use. According to the first, Ron Paul is currently ahead of Romney, the second one has him trailing something like 80 to 800/900.
(The nomination is over, its Romney. Anyone pretending otherwise is more delusional than Gingrich)
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It's literally impossible for Ron Paul to take the nomination, unless some of Romney's unpledged delegates abandon him (and that won't happen)
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On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks.
For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away. Also our pharmaceutical companies give drugs to people of a certain income for free (I have worked in a doctor's office and helped patients fill out those forms).
Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff.
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On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks. For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away. Also our pharmaceutical companies give drugs to people of a certain income for free (I have worked in a doctor's office and helped patients fill out those forms). Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff.
The average person with average insurance actually has far inferior healthcare to the average homeless person.
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On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks. For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away.
I just can't imagine going bankrupt if I had the misfortune of having some kind of hereditary illness, or even affording to go to university in the states.
I mean, it's not like everyone in the US is dire straits, nor do I believe everyone is entitled to 'wealth'. But I do sympathize with the concern that it's getting harder and harder for someone who is poor to be given the opportunity to rise out of poverty.
It might just be because I'm Canadian, and I consider myself pretty lucky. I'm not the most savvy guy, but I work hard enough that I make a pretty reasonable, lower-middle class living. I don't think I deserve more or less, but not having to worry about paying $13,000 for an emergency appendectomy really helps.
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On April 27 2012 05:51 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks. For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away. Also our pharmaceutical companies give drugs to people of a certain income for free (I have worked in a doctor's office and helped patients fill out those forms). Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff. The average person with average insurance actually has far inferior healthcare to the average homeless person.
You could very well be correct but it'd be nice if you cited a source for such a radical claim.
Also, I do want to point out that Obamacare isn't exactly going to solve anything. It's only extending health insurance to %6 of uninsured Americans. That's hardly revolutionary. Veto-ing Obamacare is hardly a selling point for Romney just as creating Obamacare isn't really a selling point for Obama.
The plan does do a nasty job of cutting funds for med schools and residency programs as well as slashing hospital funding and payments (that's where most of the savings come from) so our awesome doctor shortage is going to get worse. But unless you're inside the healthcare system yourself that's not really going to make a difference to you.
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On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:
Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff.
I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. The cost of healthcare can be attributed to US health providers simply charging more than providers from other countries, inflated costs on prescription drugs and unnecessary diagnostic tests.
In England and Canada, the government sets the market price of healthcare procedures. In Japan, the government acts as an arbitrator between insurers and providers to set the price of care.
In the US, its the wild west. Studies show that sometimes a US healthcare provider will charge different amounts for the same procedure, depending on the insurer. There is nothing controlling cost of healthcare in your country and no incentive for providers to be more cost effective.
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On April 27 2012 06:01 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:
Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff.
I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. The cost of healthcare can be attributed to US health providers simply charging more than providers from other countries, inflated costs on prescription drugs and unnecessary diagnostic tests. In England and Canada, the government sets the market price of healthcare procedures. In Japan, the government acts as an arbitrator between insurers and providers to set the price of care. In the US, its the wild west. Studies show that sometimes a US healthcare provider will charge different amounts for the same procedure, depending on the insurer. There is nothing controlling cost of healthcare in your country and no incentive for providers to be more cost effective.
You're really touting price fixing as a good thing? ...ok
And they charge such wonky prices because of the medicare/insurance game. Oftentimes, insurance companies (and especially medicare) simply won't pay doctors. A doctor's visit might actually be worth $50 but the insurance company will send them a letter and say "sorry, we're only paying $10" (I have read those letters). Well the doctor needs to actually cover his costs so he has a few options:
1. Just crank 5 patients through his office in the time he would normally see 1 so he can still get his $50.
2. Order tons of unnecessary tests (I will agree that this is a massive problem but I'm merely explaining the incentives for it).
3. Charge ludicrous amounts for things that insurance doesn't police as much.
Believe me, blaming the providers is silly. They are being forced to play a game that no one wants to play.
And as far as hospital care goes, hospitals are underpaid on medicare patients by about %40 so they have to make that up by charging non-medicare patients 140%. A lot of people seem to forget that profit motives and costs don't simply go away because the government says so.
And I really shouldn't post about this anymore because it's definitely flirting with off-topic but the point is to say that the government (Dems and Repubs included) aren't going to be able to fix healthcare by making rules...at least they've failed miserably at it so far.
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On April 27 2012 06:08 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:01 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:
Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff.
I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. The cost of healthcare can be attributed to US health providers simply charging more than providers from other countries, inflated costs on prescription drugs and unnecessary diagnostic tests. In England and Canada, the government sets the market price of healthcare procedures. In Japan, the government acts as an arbitrator between insurers and providers to set the price of care. In the US, its the wild west. Studies show that sometimes a US healthcare provider will charge different amounts for the same procedure, depending on the insurer. There is nothing controlling cost of healthcare in your country and no incentive for providers to be more cost effective. You're really touting price fixing as a good thing? ...okAnd they charge such wonky prices because of the medicare/insurance game. Oftentimes, insurance companies (and especially medicare) simply won't pay doctors. A doctor's visit might actually be worth $50 but the insurance company will send them a letter and say "sorry, we're only paying $10" (I have read those letters). Well the doctor needs to actually cover his costs so he has a few options: 1. Just crank 5 patients through his office in the time he would normally see 1 so he can still get his $50. 2. Order tons of unnecessary tests (I will agree that this is a massive problem but I'm merely explaining the incentives for it). 3. Charge ludicrous amounts for things that insurance doesn't police as much. Believe me, blaming the providers is silly. They are being forced to play a game that no one wants to play. And as far as hospital care goes, hospitals are underpaid on medicare patients by about %40 so they have to make that up by charging non-medicare patients 140%. A lot of people seem to forget that profit motives and costs don't simply go away because the government says so. And I really shouldn't post about this anymore because it's definitely flirting with off-topic but the point is to say that the government (Dems and Repubs included) aren't going to be able to fix healthcare by making rules...at least they've failed miserably at it so far.
Based on your argument trying to justify price-gouging or worse service ... yes, regulating prices might make more sense. It's not like it doesn't have a precedent for essential services (gas prices).
But yes, neither Republicans or Democrats have come up with a comprehensive solution.
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On April 26 2012 13:45 forgottendreams wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:12 sunprince wrote:On April 26 2012 08:03 forgottendreams wrote:
The oil addiction reminds of fat people with a refrigerator full of cake and burgers who say they want to delay going on a diet because they don't want to waste what's in the fridge now. Then they space out the cake into the diet into elongated intervals diminishing the full effect of the diet. I understand short term pleasure, not wasting and such but it's time to look beyond digging up more harmful shit from the ground. While I tend to side with environmentalists on this issue, your analogy isn't a fair characterization. Continuing our oil addiction isn't a matter of short-term pleasure; it has real, tangible short-term benefits to our economy. Ultimately, environmentalists are concerned with the long-term drawbacks of our energy situation, but conservatives are more concerned with ensuring American prosperity now. While one can argue that the conservative position is short-sighted or otherwise problematic, it's not as cut-and-dry as simply assuming they're being foolish. I think it's fair, and I think the analogy fits right in with people putting off medicare and SSI reform. People for the most part look for the easiest route possible.
There's nothing wrong with looking for the easiest route possible. That's what we should all be doing. The issue is that "easiest" is subjective, especially when it's a matter of measuring present value versus future value.
When the decision is between suffering for people today, and suffering for people tomorrow, most people will choose the latter. Yes, I agree with you that it's awful that the generation in power is basically mortgaging the future of their children, but it's understandable why they would make that choice when the house is getting foreclosed now.
Honestly, what we should have been doing was reforming our taxes and entitlement programs when we had budget surpluses, instead of giving out tax cuts, but it's too late to regret electing Bush now. All we can do now is try to work through the recession and make some tough decisions, and it's not fair to characterize liberal or conservative strategies as stupid when there's no optimum strategy to be found.
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On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks. For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away. Also our pharmaceutical companies give drugs to people of a certain income for free (I have worked in a doctor's office and helped patients fill out those forms). Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff.
it costs me ~230$/month to pay for me , my wife and my son for the literal basic shit so i still practically pay for everything out of pocket. i honestly find that criminal.
just as a side note me and my wife make about 20k / year atm combined and are considered "poor" but don't get any benefits from any gov't institutions because we make "too much"
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On April 27 2012 12:14 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks. For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away. Also our pharmaceutical companies give drugs to people of a certain income for free (I have worked in a doctor's office and helped patients fill out those forms). Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff. it costs me ~230$/month to pay for me , my wife and my son for the literal basic shit so i still practically pay for everything out of pocket. i honestly find that criminal. just as a side note me and my wife make about 20k / year atm combined and are considered "poor" but don't get any benefits from any gov't institutions because we make "too much"
Are you serious? I had no idea. I'm a recently college graduate and most jobs I am looking at are 60k and above. I'm surprised that two people together could make less than 20k, much less be able to support a family but I really hope that is common. No one who puts in the effort for working the business hours should be paid that little. I made more than that as a grad student RA ffs.
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On April 27 2012 05:51 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks. For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away. Also our pharmaceutical companies give drugs to people of a certain income for free (I have worked in a doctor's office and helped patients fill out those forms). Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff. The average person with average insurance actually has far inferior healthcare to the average homeless person.
*showing you my kaiser card and laughing in your face*
yeah not in a million years is this statement true
On April 27 2012 16:28 ddrddrddrddr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 12:14 sc14s wrote:On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks. For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away. Also our pharmaceutical companies give drugs to people of a certain income for free (I have worked in a doctor's office and helped patients fill out those forms). Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff. it costs me ~230$/month to pay for me , my wife and my son for the literal basic shit so i still practically pay for everything out of pocket. i honestly find that criminal. just as a side note me and my wife make about 20k / year atm combined and are considered "poor" but don't get any benefits from any gov't institutions because we make "too much" Are you serious? I had no idea. I'm a recently college graduate and most jobs I am looking at are 60k and above. I'm surprised that two people together could make less than 20k, much less be able to support a family but I really hope that is common. No one who puts in the effort for working the business hours should be paid that little. I made more than that as a grad student RA ffs.
thats what the average income is in america...~20k/yr
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On April 27 2012 16:39 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:51 Voltaire wrote:On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks. For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away. Also our pharmaceutical companies give drugs to people of a certain income for free (I have worked in a doctor's office and helped patients fill out those forms). Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff. The average person with average insurance actually has far inferior healthcare to the average homeless person. *showing you my kaiser card and laughing in your face* yeah not in a million years is this statement true
The US got a lot of problems with its health care system - but I am also of the opinion that this is a gross exaggeration.
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On April 27 2012 16:28 ddrddrddrddr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 12:14 sc14s wrote:On April 27 2012 05:41 Klondikebar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:09 Defacer wrote:On April 27 2012 03:30 xDaunt wrote:On April 27 2012 03:00 Defacer wrote:On April 26 2012 14:21 0neder wrote:
@ Chytilova - the stimulus may have procrastinated us actually addressing the problem, but the hurt will have to come sooner or later.
Romney's speech the other night dissecting the lies about 'fairness' was spot-on. I think he should win this, in spite of voter fraud and traditional media all going against him. Once every generation or so, American voters have to re-learn how destructive, wreckless, and naive unadulterated socialism is. President Obama has provided that opportunity for this generation. A golden opportunity to show the rising generation that conservatism (ie classic liberalism) is the path to greater happiness for all people. You guys have the shittiest healthcare system of any g20 country and the highest average tuition rates. Your idea of 'unadulterated socialism' is a farce. Canada must be full of geniuses, because if this is your idea of a socialist government then you guys suck at it. Voters have already seen what 'unadulterated' capitalism can do ... Make the wealthiest Americans richer while causing a catastrophic economic crisis. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground. People with health insurance get immaculate care. Yup. Too bad everyone can't be JayZ and Beyonce and clear out the entire floor of a hospital. Being poor sucks. But being poor in America REALLY sucks. For some weird reason the rest of the world grossly underestimates the healthcare available to poor people in our country. We have medicaid, and we have state run health insurance pools (that are incredibly cheap), and you can get free emergency care from any hospital since they legally cannot turn you away. Also our pharmaceutical companies give drugs to people of a certain income for free (I have worked in a doctor's office and helped patients fill out those forms). Yes, we have some crazy expensive stuff in healthcare but that's because it's super cutting edge stuff. it costs me ~230$/month to pay for me , my wife and my son for the literal basic shit so i still practically pay for everything out of pocket. i honestly find that criminal. just as a side note me and my wife make about 20k / year atm combined and are considered "poor" but don't get any benefits from any gov't institutions because we make "too much" Are you serious? I had no idea. I'm a recently college graduate and most jobs I am looking at are 60k and above. I'm surprised that two people together could make less than 20k, much less be able to support a family but I really hope that is common. No one who puts in the effort for working the business hours should be paid that little. I made more than that as a grad student RA ffs.
Depends on your degree, your field, and what industry/market your going into.
To put it in perspective, I have a degree in Design. I worked for seven years in the non-profit world, and worked my way up to a senior level at a large museum. The largest project I've managed had a budget of $7 million.
The most I made there was $50,000/year.
Then I got a job offer at a small app company of five people. The starting salary they offered me was $72,000, even though I have no experience in software development.
There's plenty of challenging, worthwhile work that pays shit-all. And there's some people that are just unlucky. Good jobs don't just fall from the sky.
Of course, without socialized medicine, maybe I can't afford to work in a non-profit as long as I did.
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