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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
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On July 13 2013 01:08 crms wrote:
this makes me fucking sick to my stomach that the prosecution is talking about 'using your heart'. You fucking scumbags, the state should only be concerned with evidence. This sounds like a defense attorney who has no case, not the fucking state authority trying to PROSECUTE someone beyond reasonable doubt of MURDER.
makes me sick.
Can someone keep a count of "Facts presented" in this closing statement please?
I would but im off in a min. Because there hasnt been a single fact yet.
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Since when did "fears" and "nightmares" become a sound basis for a criminal conviction?
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On July 13 2013 01:00 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:49 Plansix wrote:On July 13 2013 00:31 zbedlam wrote:On July 13 2013 00:13 Plansix wrote:On July 13 2013 00:03 zbedlam wrote:On July 13 2013 00:00 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 23:57 Sermokala wrote:On July 12 2013 23:50 ConGee wrote:On July 12 2013 23:48 aksfjh wrote:On July 12 2013 23:34 ZasZ. wrote:
[quote]
It happened to me walking to school (7th-8th grade) once. Pretty sure it was a pedophile, but my walking route was a pretty public street so I just made sure to walk fast. There are many reasons that Trayvon could assume Zimmerman was following him for, and many people are right in that most of them are malicious in nature. But I don't buy the "he didn't want to lead him to his house" argument. For all intents and purposes, in these situations, you are safe once you reach your destination and get off the street. If Trayvon had just hurried home, he would have been fine. I have no doubt that it was the confrontational, alpha male personality that came to light through the data found on his phone that ultimately led to his death that night, so if people are going to try to hold Zimmerman accountable for shooting him, they need to understand that Trayvon was equally accountable for putting himself in a position where he needed to be shot. WTF man? So certain personality types just need a good shooting to set them straight, or what? Certainly you can't be serious. He proceeded to pound Zimmerman's face into the concrete for a least 40 seconds. If pounding someone's face into concrete for forty seconds isn't opening yourself up to the use of deadly force, I don't know what is. I would say He could use a good tazeing for what he did but theres no reason why anyone deserves to die for being a huge dick. I think all of us can agree it would have been a much different and better situation if any "neighborhood watch" people carry tazers instead of a potential murder weapon. This is what I was trying to say earlier in the thread but got laughed off for being a pansy/delusional. Carrying a gun as a neighborhood watch is kinda overkill. Especially since in a lot of countries the police themselves don't even carry guns. And in America, neighborhood watches certainly don't carry guns themselves. Or follow criminals on foot for that matter. But yeah smashing someone's head into the pavement is a bit more aggressive than simple dickishness. A much better alternative would be not allowing people incapable of defending themselves from an unarmed assailant to go around following potential criminals late at night. Actually better yet, civilians shouldn't be following people around late at night full stop, at least police are well marked AND trained to deal with these kind of encounters. How would you enforce this mythical laws you are talking about? What if I follow someone and prevent a crime without the use of violence? Should I be charged with a crime because I prevented one? This sort of mythical legal-crafting forgets you need to enforce the laws after you write them and make sure they don't do more harm than good. Stalking is considered harassment and intimidation, reporting someone for following you would warrant a response - odds are it would only be a warning if this was your first offense. So following people is already a crime? I don't follow you. All I'm trying to say is, if someone wants to play local police they should be trained to do so, that way they don't have to shoot the first person that fights them. If you follow someone and prevented a crime without the use of violence, odds are you would be considered a hero. However if you are going to go out and specifically look for potential criminals, you should be a cop or at least clearly marked so the person you are following doesn't view it as an act of aggression. Everything you said is reasonable, but there is no way to reasonablely enforce such laws. What GZ was doing in this case was not stalking and having poor judgment is not illegal(it is cause for a civil action, but not a criminal offense). I understand people's desire to try to stop the problem before it starts, but you can't make laws trying to stop poor judgment with stuff like this. The laws end up being overly broad and not specific enough for enforce or they end up prohibiting actions that would be helpful. Sometimes we need to accept that we can't fix everything. We can't make laws trying to stop people with poor judgment from attempt to prevent crimes from happening, because we will also stop people with good judgment from preventing crimes. Even if Zimmerman is found innocent can the Martin family bring a civil suit against him? Or would the innocent verdict completely kill any momentum in a civil case?
You can always bring a suit against anyone, but you might not win. Civil cases do not have the same burden of proof as criminal. They are also way more complicated when it comes to "responsibility” and how negligence is calculated(yes, courts calculate how much negligent someone was). I don't know how Florida works in civil matters, but the lack of a criminal conviction does not help. In Massachusetts, if the Martian was found to be more than 50% responsible for what took place, the case against Zimmerman would be dismissed. Where “responsibility” started would be a major issue in the case and I don’t know how the court would rule on that.
The case would be a nightmare, that is for sure.
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Where is their proof that Zimmerman lied?
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TLADT24920 Posts
Man, I really dislike the approach that they are taking from talking about feelings, repeating the same words and such to try and get a conviction. Who initiated contact? They don't know that yet they claim they do. They kept talking as if it's all facts. I admit I really dislike Zimmerman's approach to the situation and that Trayvon lost his life but the way the prosecutors are running this case is beyond ridiculous.
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On July 13 2013 01:13 Vin{MBL} wrote:
Where is their proof that Zimmerman lied?
use your heart and you can see
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On July 13 2013 01:10 Blacktion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 01:08 crms wrote:
this makes me fucking sick to my stomach that the prosecution is talking about 'using your heart'. You fucking scumbags, the state should only be concerned with evidence. This sounds like a defense attorney who has no case, not the fucking state authority trying to PROSECUTE someone beyond reasonable doubt of MURDER.
makes me sick. Can someone keep a count of "Facts presented" in this closing statement please? I would but im off in a min. Because there hasnt been a single fact yet.
i'm watching the whole thing so i'll keep count. i am assuming right now that there will be zero because they've had zero this whole time and if they had ONE they would have used it.
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This sounds more like a Law and Order speech given by a defense attorney than anything.
Is this real life?
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This prosecutor guy is really pushing the "child" part. I doubt the jury are buying it... And what's with the hollywood voice, feels like I'm watching a trailer for something
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This guy should run for politics.. evoking strong emotion using powerful general statements without providing any pillars of fact to prop them up on.
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this is fucking disgusting, im not sure i can keep watching this shit.
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On July 13 2013 01:15 On_Slaught wrote:
This sounds more like a Law and Order speech given by a defense attorney than anything.
Is this real life?
Some closing arguments are really bad. You should see the shit we deal with on civil cases that go to jury trial. These folks are lawyers, not public speakers.
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"what happened?" is not evidence.
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Like all lawyers, I'm very hesitant to recommend that the bar investigate an attorney for ethical violations. Yet, the State's closing argument is really making me consider it.
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This is why most people of government office's are lawyers. They are utterly full of shit.
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Wait what? "4min isn't how long he had to run home, it's how much longer he had on this earth."
Wtf? That doesn't make any sense. You aren't refuting the fact that he had 4min to get home. At all. You just said "nah! Nope you're wrong you're wrong!" Disgusting.
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'i dont have any evidence for you'
'use your heart, and common sense'
holy shit man, how is this legal for a STATE prosecutor?
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I swear to God, I have seen mock trial kids make better arguments than this.
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On July 13 2013 01:16 xDaunt wrote:
Like all lawyers, I'm very hesitant to recommend that the bar investigate an attorney for ethical violations. Yet, the State's closing argument is really making me consider it.
I am not listening to them, but he does sound like he is pushing the limits of what is acceptable. At the end of the day, though, they never really wanted to bring this case and the media outcry forced them take action. And its closing arguments on a shitty case. Hopefully the jury see him as desperate.
On July 13 2013 01:18 crms wrote:
'i dont have any evidence for you'
'use your heart, and common sense'
holy shit man, how is this legal for a STATE prosecutor?
There is no way he said 'i dont have any evidence for you'. Are you kidding?(checks google to see if BAR cards are handed out in cracker jack boxes in Florida)
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It's pretty preposterous to go the emotion route... like, what's that supposed to mean? Zimmerman rage murdered Martin in a residential area because Martin was acting suspicious? Zimmerman would have to be completely mental.
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EPT
