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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 190

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
jeremycafe
Profile Joined March 2009
United States354 Posts
June 28 2013 14:27 GMT
#3781
Pay close attention to this. This is about to be a landmark witness for the defense.
zbedlam
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia549 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 14:28:32
June 28 2013 14:28 GMT
#3782
agreed

gonna make or break the case
jeremycafe
Profile Joined March 2009
United States354 Posts
June 28 2013 14:29 GMT
#3783
I feel bad for this guy. I think he is beating himself up for not helping. You can see in his face he looks broken over it
zbedlam
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia549 Posts
June 28 2013 14:33 GMT
#3784
On June 28 2013 23:29 jeremycafe wrote:
I feel bad for this guy. I think he is beating himself up for not helping. You can see in his face he looks broken over it


Yeah, the look on his face when he testified that he walked back inside after hearing calls for help was rather sad.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 15:08:23
June 28 2013 14:36 GMT
#3785
Aw, I wish I could watch this testimony. From what I am reading, it looks like the State's case just went up in smoke.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2013 14:42 GMT
#3786
So we have an eyewitness testifying that 1) Trayvon was on top doing a "ground and pound" on Zimmerman; 2) Zimmerman was screaming for help; 3) the witness told Trayvon to stop; and 4) Trayvon refused to stop.

Why the fuck was this case prosecuted?
jeremycafe
Profile Joined March 2009
United States354 Posts
June 28 2013 14:43 GMT
#3787
On June 28 2013 23:42 xDaunt wrote:
So we have an eyewitness testifying that 1) Trayvon was on top doing a "ground and pound" on Zimmerman; 2) Zimmerman was screaming for help; 3) the witness told Trayvon to stop; and 4) Trayvon refused to stop.

Why the fuck was this case prosecuted?


I am blown away by this. It is like the state is trying to throw the case lol
mainerd
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States347 Posts
June 28 2013 14:54 GMT
#3788
Seems like the cops were right in not charging Zimmerman right away. After all the racially charged protesting and outcry, they finally got their charges and their trial, as well as the resignation of the Sanford police chief, and it's all falling apart for the prosecution. A serious waste of taxpayer money, and it will likely leave Zimmerman in massive legal debt. I guess the trial serves to clear up what happened on that night, which is of course important, but I can't believe the state proceeded with their case considering the known eye witness testimony.
"Let me tell you, in eSTRO we had some circle jerks, straight up. It wasn't pretty." -NonY
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
June 28 2013 15:00 GMT
#3789
On June 28 2013 16:39 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 16:35 wozzot wrote:
On June 28 2013 16:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On June 28 2013 16:19 wozzot wrote:
On June 28 2013 14:22 Millitron wrote:
On June 28 2013 13:47 plogamer wrote:
On June 28 2013 13:25 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Yesterday, I didn't agree that Jenteal was a total disaster. Today... yeah, she was. She has zero credibility after today. If she had simply stuck to one story, her rather unpleasant personality would have meant much less. Her demeanor and attitude and her status as a "friend" (I thought she was his girlfriend? Now she wasn't?) of Trayvon cast him in a more negative light. The likelihood of the jury thinking Trayvon was the physical aggressor who initiated the physical fight has to have gone up after being exposed to her and because of her testimony. I can't believe that the prosecution didn't at least try to lessen the blow of her quoting Trayvon with the "nigga followin' me" and "crazy-ass cracker." It undercuts the prosecution's argument that Trayvon was not hostile towards Zimmerman while Zimmerman was chomping at the bit to take Martin down.

And as Kaitlin said, the jury has to be wondering how she 'knows' what Trayvon would have done if he had intended to get into a fight with Zimmerman. The defense must be hugging themselves with glee, since the judge won't allow them to show Trayvon's texts and tweets involving weed, guns, and fights. She did their job for them.

It's been very disappointing to see some the racial arguments being advanced here. Racism is racism is racism. Whether or not racism has effected blacks more in the past or today is totally irrelevant. Saying that one person's racism or racist remarks aren't really racist or aren't as bad, because their group has been more effected by racism, is a race-bias divisive argument.

Even though the person who has been advancing it most strenuously (Magpie) undoubtedly believes in it for ideological, not racial, reasons, the effect is that people are divided by their race into categories and qualitative judgments are made based on those categories. The color of someone's skin is not a signpost as to their character and how their behavior should be judged.


Would you say that about weight-class in boxing? Or would you blindly insist that weight-class difference between a feathweight versus a heavyweight is irrelevant. Boxing is boxing is boxing?

Being called a 'cracker' doesn't really hurt when you have more money than Black people on average. That's why you find that these neo-racists who claim 'reverse racism' are just the underbelly of the White communities, and certain figures trying to profit from them - ala Michelle Bachman, Sarah Palin, Fox News.

Either racist language matters regardless of what race the speaker is, or it doesn't matter regardless of what race the speaker is. Anything else is a double standard.

The difference is that one of these slurs is intimately associated with literal centuries of racial oppression and the other isn't

jap didnt become a pejorative for japanese until world war II when americans wanted to kill them with less remorse. so, we have successfully killed this strawman you have created. next.

What I meant to say is that "cracker" doesn't carry the connotation that you are a gibbering subhuman animal who should be subservient to others or be lynched. Are you unironically arguing that "cracker" is even as remotely offensive

i dont find any pejorative terms personally offensive because only retards would use them, and i certainly dont attempt to classify them as most and least offensive since that would be retarded as well.

lol retards is a pejorative term for people with mental disabilities
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 28 2013 15:46 GMT
#3790
On June 28 2013 23:10 zbedlam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 23:06 jeremycafe wrote:
On June 28 2013 23:04 zbedlam wrote:
On June 28 2013 23:00 jeremycafe wrote:
On June 28 2013 22:50 zbedlam wrote:
Someone being beaten to death doesn't say help once or twice, I would say this witness is helping the state marginally so far.


How does this help the state? He didn't say it once or twice. He was only watching for around 10 seconds. You can hear the entire cry for helps in the 911 call. It was clearly more than 1 or two times.

He made a comment that the voice sounded different on the tape. Well its a recording vs hearing it in person. People tell me I sound like I am black when hearing my voice over the phone, but not in person. We don't sound 100% the same when being recorded. The defense will catch this I hope.


If someone was on top of you beating to death, and you heard another person telling you two to break it up. Would you say "help" once or twice over the course of 10 or so seconds?

But yes nothing this witness says is proof either way, however the voices being definitely different is suggestive.


I don't understand, you don't seem to be following his testimony. The cries for help came at the end of his 10 seconds, not the beginning. He yelled out for them to stop, then the person started yelling for help. If you line the 911 call up with what he is saying, it is the same person crying for help many many times. Have you not listened to the 911 call? The person crying for help sounds pretty damn desperate to me.


The 911 call is not definitely zimmerman screaming for help, in fact from what I understand they had audio experts claiming it was Trayvon but they were not allowed to testify.

Maybe I am misunderstanding this witness but from what I can see, he didn't paint a picture of the man on the bottom screaming for help over and over again.

they werent allowed to testify because the court found them unreliable. i think you should think twice before relying on them.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2013 15:53 GMT
#3791
It may be impossible for a jury to find Zimmerman guilty beyond a reasonable doubt now. I don't practice criminal law, so I am not very familiar with the standard for the defense getting a directed verdict, but it's gotta be pretty close in this case.
LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
June 28 2013 15:55 GMT
#3792
On June 28 2013 22:48 jeremycafe wrote:
why in the world is this the state's witness? It seems to go more along the defense's story... He sees martin on top. He confirms they were by the side walk. He confirms the person on top was making motions with his arms downwards multiple times, he BELIEVES the person crying for help was on the bottom.


this is weird...


Probably because the defense's story is the truth.
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
SilverLeagueElite
Profile Joined April 2010
United States626 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 16:03:58
June 28 2013 16:02 GMT
#3793
Wait that last guy was a state witness? lol. I thought he was a neutral or defense witness from the way the prosecution was challenging him and the defense reaffirming his statements. At least, at the end of it.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
June 28 2013 16:08 GMT
#3794
On June 29 2013 01:02 SilverLeagueElite wrote:
Wait that last guy was a state witness? lol. I thought he was a neutral or defense witness from the way the prosecution was challenging him and the defense reaffirming his statements. At least, at the end of it.

Well, the prosecution probally was forced to question him. The defense would bring him in anyway and it can look bad if the state only choosing to question the witness that fit their story. Him appearing later on could do even more damage to their case.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 28 2013 16:13 GMT
#3795
On June 29 2013 01:08 SKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2013 01:02 SilverLeagueElite wrote:
Wait that last guy was a state witness? lol. I thought he was a neutral or defense witness from the way the prosecution was challenging him and the defense reaffirming his statements. At least, at the end of it.

Well, the prosecution probally was forced to question him. The defense would bring him in anyway and it can look bad if the state only choosing to question the witness that fit their story. Him appearing later on could do even more damage to their case.

yes. sanitize the bad testimony before defense can act like its a smoking gun. sounds like they werent able to do such a good job of it though.
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
June 28 2013 16:15 GMT
#3796
Opinion question: Will Zimmerman really need to testify if the witnesses are torpedoing the State's case so much?
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
PCloadletter
Profile Joined June 2013
41 Posts
June 28 2013 16:15 GMT
#3797
I keep missing so much! What was the last guy's name, I want to find video of him testifying.
I'm not asking for much here. I only wish to speak my mind and afford others the same respect.
LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
June 28 2013 16:18 GMT
#3798
On June 29 2013 01:15 PCloadletter wrote:
I keep missing so much! What was the last guy's name, I want to find video of him testifying.


His name is Good.
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
PCloadletter
Profile Joined June 2013
41 Posts
June 28 2013 16:19 GMT
#3799
Jonathan Good, thanks, got it.
I'm not asking for much here. I only wish to speak my mind and afford others the same respect.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2013 16:22 GMT
#3800
Okay, I just watched the CNN-HLN coverage of this trial for a few minutes. It is horrific beyond description.
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