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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On December 06 2018 06:37 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 05:28 Danglars wrote:An inmate who had escaped minutes earlier from a county jail in South Carolina was shot and killed by a woman after he kicked in her back door, the local sheriff said.
The inmate was still in his orange jail jumpsuit and had grabbed a knife sharpening tool from the woman’s kitchen in Pickens as he headed toward her bedroom around 3 a.m. Tuesday, Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said.
“This was a big guy. If she hadn’t had a weapon there’s no telling what would have happened,” Clark said. “I gave her a big hug. I told her how proud I was of her.”
The woman was home alone and had gone through training to get a concealed weapons permit, Clark said.
Bruce McLaughlin Jr., 30, died from a gunshot to the head, Pickens County Coroner Kandy Kelley said.
McLaughlin and a second inmate, Timothy Dill, beat up two guards in an escape they had planned for days, Clark said at a news conference.
Dill was recaptured by deputies without incident about the same time McLaughlin was shot, but the two were going in opposite directions, the sheriff said.
The guards had bruises and one complained of a sore back, but they should recover, Clark said.
Inmates tried to help the guards while they were attacked, Clark said.
McLaughlin and Dill stole the guards’ keys and locked them in a room, but inmates also broke the door down, the sheriff said.
Dill is charged with escape along with two counts of kidnapping, and first-degree assault and battery as well as other charges.
McLaughlin had been in and out of the Pickens County jail about a dozen times on charges ranging from drug possession to assaulting a police officer to shoplifting. He was currently awaiting trial on first-degree burglary and grand larceny charges, according to sheriff’s office records.
Dill was awaiting trial on a criminal sexual conduct with a minor charge.
The sheriff said the homeowner was shaken by the shooting and asked him to help her maintain her privacy. He did not release her name.
Clark said he thinks the shooting is justified, but will forward the case file to prosecutors once the investigation is finished.
“This is the shining example” of why owning and knowing how to use a gun is important, the sheriff said.
“She came out on the good on this end and the other guy, the bad guy, didn’t,” Clark said. KTLAJust because this thread tends towards the gruesome and routinely disparages good guys (gals) with guns, he's a story of when it mattered from the other side. I stand against anyone that wants to belittle armed citizens at home, implying it's better off for them to not own a gun than to have one available for home defense. Three cheers for the woman, and for South Carolina's "Shall Issue" laws. The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it twists reality to one specific episode instead of looking at things from a whole. Statistically, you are way more likely to die if you own a gun for self defence. For every one of these episodes there are 100 where people have shot themselves, their kids, their wifes, their parents etc on accident because there is literally no requirements for owning a gun, such a knowing how to handle it safely. Not to mention all the "bad guys with a gun" who wouldn't be able to get one if they were a bit more restricted. I'm not going to pretend there are no cases where owning a gun for self defence is correct. For instance if you have a legit threat against you, or if you live so remotely it could take hours for police to show up. However you should still require some sort of training to be able to own one, if only for your own safety. People need to know where the safety is, how to hold it, where not to point it, trigger discipline, how to properly store it, how to tell the difference between a mass murderer and a random black person, and what the gun laws are.
If you're going to cite the problems with anecdotal evidence, then you had better apply them to anecdotal school shootings and mass shootings. It's just that these things evoke more emotion (negative emotion wins out over positive emotion) that you don't choose the anecdotes of the other kind. I'm going to put a little more effort reporting the stories that cross my eyes in order to elevate people's understanding of the issue.
I'm sure you meant something more appropriate and sane than "likely to die" (try "likely to die by suicide or violence.") You have a 100% chance to die. Gun deaths, even among gun owners, are rare enough to not top heart disease and cancer.
Living in high crime areas (prevalence of armed robbery or gang violence) is a legit enough threat to own a gun for me.
My ideological predispositions drive me to conclude that "if only for your own safety" is an idiotic restriction on your right to own and bear arms. It's no more the government's job to prevent me buying a gun for my own safety, as it is to prevent me registering to vote presuming I'm likely to vote against my own interests. But that's probably sideways to a lot of the more "productive" discussions here. The whole nanny state stuff turns into a huge can of worms.
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On December 06 2018 08:59 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 06:34 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2018 05:28 Danglars wrote:An inmate who had escaped minutes earlier from a county jail in South Carolina was shot and killed by a woman after he kicked in her back door, the local sheriff said.
The inmate was still in his orange jail jumpsuit and had grabbed a knife sharpening tool from the woman’s kitchen in Pickens as he headed toward her bedroom around 3 a.m. Tuesday, Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said.
“This was a big guy. If she hadn’t had a weapon there’s no telling what would have happened,” Clark said. “I gave her a big hug. I told her how proud I was of her.”
The woman was home alone and had gone through training to get a concealed weapons permit, Clark said.
Bruce McLaughlin Jr., 30, died from a gunshot to the head, Pickens County Coroner Kandy Kelley said.
McLaughlin and a second inmate, Timothy Dill, beat up two guards in an escape they had planned for days, Clark said at a news conference.
Dill was recaptured by deputies without incident about the same time McLaughlin was shot, but the two were going in opposite directions, the sheriff said.
The guards had bruises and one complained of a sore back, but they should recover, Clark said.
Inmates tried to help the guards while they were attacked, Clark said.
McLaughlin and Dill stole the guards’ keys and locked them in a room, but inmates also broke the door down, the sheriff said.
Dill is charged with escape along with two counts of kidnapping, and first-degree assault and battery as well as other charges.
McLaughlin had been in and out of the Pickens County jail about a dozen times on charges ranging from drug possession to assaulting a police officer to shoplifting. He was currently awaiting trial on first-degree burglary and grand larceny charges, according to sheriff’s office records.
Dill was awaiting trial on a criminal sexual conduct with a minor charge.
The sheriff said the homeowner was shaken by the shooting and asked him to help her maintain her privacy. He did not release her name.
Clark said he thinks the shooting is justified, but will forward the case file to prosecutors once the investigation is finished.
“This is the shining example” of why owning and knowing how to use a gun is important, the sheriff said.
“She came out on the good on this end and the other guy, the bad guy, didn’t,” Clark said. KTLAJust because this thread tends towards the gruesome and routinely disparages good guys (gals) with guns, he's a story of when it mattered from the other side. I stand against anyone that wants to belittle armed citizens at home, implying it's better off for them to not own a gun than to have one available for home defense. Three cheers for the woman, and for South Carolina's "Shall Issue" laws. This doesn’t really happen. There is no disparaging of real people who commit acts of heroism or defend themselves, you simply imply that is the case by putting words into peoples mouths. It is good that the woman was able to defend herself and you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the thread who would say otherwise. You're just ignorant or being purposefully dense. Posters here have literally reduced good guy with a gun to " More purpose designed killing devices = more safety". And then gone on to many guffaws when one was killed by police after his act of service. You just have a political axe to grind, as usual.
No, I’m simply highlighting that you decided what other people’s opinions about that article were and argued against them. You didn’t post that article to have a discussion about it, but to put people you disagree with in a corner of our choosing. It is a naked attempt to control the conversation.
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On December 06 2018 10:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 08:59 Danglars wrote:On December 06 2018 06:34 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2018 05:28 Danglars wrote:An inmate who had escaped minutes earlier from a county jail in South Carolina was shot and killed by a woman after he kicked in her back door, the local sheriff said.
The inmate was still in his orange jail jumpsuit and had grabbed a knife sharpening tool from the woman’s kitchen in Pickens as he headed toward her bedroom around 3 a.m. Tuesday, Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said.
“This was a big guy. If she hadn’t had a weapon there’s no telling what would have happened,” Clark said. “I gave her a big hug. I told her how proud I was of her.”
The woman was home alone and had gone through training to get a concealed weapons permit, Clark said.
Bruce McLaughlin Jr., 30, died from a gunshot to the head, Pickens County Coroner Kandy Kelley said.
McLaughlin and a second inmate, Timothy Dill, beat up two guards in an escape they had planned for days, Clark said at a news conference.
Dill was recaptured by deputies without incident about the same time McLaughlin was shot, but the two were going in opposite directions, the sheriff said.
The guards had bruises and one complained of a sore back, but they should recover, Clark said.
Inmates tried to help the guards while they were attacked, Clark said.
McLaughlin and Dill stole the guards’ keys and locked them in a room, but inmates also broke the door down, the sheriff said.
Dill is charged with escape along with two counts of kidnapping, and first-degree assault and battery as well as other charges.
McLaughlin had been in and out of the Pickens County jail about a dozen times on charges ranging from drug possession to assaulting a police officer to shoplifting. He was currently awaiting trial on first-degree burglary and grand larceny charges, according to sheriff’s office records.
Dill was awaiting trial on a criminal sexual conduct with a minor charge.
The sheriff said the homeowner was shaken by the shooting and asked him to help her maintain her privacy. He did not release her name.
Clark said he thinks the shooting is justified, but will forward the case file to prosecutors once the investigation is finished.
“This is the shining example” of why owning and knowing how to use a gun is important, the sheriff said.
“She came out on the good on this end and the other guy, the bad guy, didn’t,” Clark said. KTLAJust because this thread tends towards the gruesome and routinely disparages good guys (gals) with guns, he's a story of when it mattered from the other side. I stand against anyone that wants to belittle armed citizens at home, implying it's better off for them to not own a gun than to have one available for home defense. Three cheers for the woman, and for South Carolina's "Shall Issue" laws. This doesn’t really happen. There is no disparaging of real people who commit acts of heroism or defend themselves, you simply imply that is the case by putting words into peoples mouths. It is good that the woman was able to defend herself and you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the thread who would say otherwise. You're just ignorant or being purposefully dense. Posters here have literally reduced good guy with a gun to " More purpose designed killing devices = more safety". And then gone on to many guffaws when one was killed by police after his act of service. You just have a political axe to grind, as usual. No, I’m simply highlighting that you decided what other people’s opinions about that article were and argued against them. You didn’t post that article to have a discussion about it, but to put people you disagree with in a corner of our choosing. It is a naked attempt to control the conversation.
You made a positive declaration that one thing has never happened and my implication is unfounded, and will not debate on the direct quote I brought up to counter it. You can show further ignorance on what has and hasn't been said in the past at your leisure. I think it's more reflective on what you wish "didn't really happen" or what you wish I had said that you think is unfair. I'll look at any evidence you can provide, but can't justify another response if it's all simple assertion of falsehood.
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On December 06 2018 11:26 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 10:39 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2018 08:59 Danglars wrote:On December 06 2018 06:34 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2018 05:28 Danglars wrote:An inmate who had escaped minutes earlier from a county jail in South Carolina was shot and killed by a woman after he kicked in her back door, the local sheriff said.
The inmate was still in his orange jail jumpsuit and had grabbed a knife sharpening tool from the woman’s kitchen in Pickens as he headed toward her bedroom around 3 a.m. Tuesday, Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said.
“This was a big guy. If she hadn’t had a weapon there’s no telling what would have happened,” Clark said. “I gave her a big hug. I told her how proud I was of her.”
The woman was home alone and had gone through training to get a concealed weapons permit, Clark said.
Bruce McLaughlin Jr., 30, died from a gunshot to the head, Pickens County Coroner Kandy Kelley said.
McLaughlin and a second inmate, Timothy Dill, beat up two guards in an escape they had planned for days, Clark said at a news conference.
Dill was recaptured by deputies without incident about the same time McLaughlin was shot, but the two were going in opposite directions, the sheriff said.
The guards had bruises and one complained of a sore back, but they should recover, Clark said.
Inmates tried to help the guards while they were attacked, Clark said.
McLaughlin and Dill stole the guards’ keys and locked them in a room, but inmates also broke the door down, the sheriff said.
Dill is charged with escape along with two counts of kidnapping, and first-degree assault and battery as well as other charges.
McLaughlin had been in and out of the Pickens County jail about a dozen times on charges ranging from drug possession to assaulting a police officer to shoplifting. He was currently awaiting trial on first-degree burglary and grand larceny charges, according to sheriff’s office records.
Dill was awaiting trial on a criminal sexual conduct with a minor charge.
The sheriff said the homeowner was shaken by the shooting and asked him to help her maintain her privacy. He did not release her name.
Clark said he thinks the shooting is justified, but will forward the case file to prosecutors once the investigation is finished.
“This is the shining example” of why owning and knowing how to use a gun is important, the sheriff said.
“She came out on the good on this end and the other guy, the bad guy, didn’t,” Clark said. KTLAJust because this thread tends towards the gruesome and routinely disparages good guys (gals) with guns, he's a story of when it mattered from the other side. I stand against anyone that wants to belittle armed citizens at home, implying it's better off for them to not own a gun than to have one available for home defense. Three cheers for the woman, and for South Carolina's "Shall Issue" laws. This doesn’t really happen. There is no disparaging of real people who commit acts of heroism or defend themselves, you simply imply that is the case by putting words into peoples mouths. It is good that the woman was able to defend herself and you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the thread who would say otherwise. You're just ignorant or being purposefully dense. Posters here have literally reduced good guy with a gun to " More purpose designed killing devices = more safety". And then gone on to many guffaws when one was killed by police after his act of service. You just have a political axe to grind, as usual. No, I’m simply highlighting that you decided what other people’s opinions about that article were and argued against them. You didn’t post that article to have a discussion about it, but to put people you disagree with in a corner of our choosing. It is a naked attempt to control the conversation. You made a positive declaration that one thing has never happened and my implication is unfounded, and will not debate on the direct quote I brought up to counter it. You can show further ignorance on what has and hasn't been said in the past at your leisure. I think it's more reflective on what you wish "didn't really happen" or what you wish I had said that you think is unfair. I'll look at any evidence you can provide, but can't justify another response if it's all simple assertion of falsehood.
I do not see how
- sarcastically observing that the prevalence of purpose designed killing devices is not on the whole conducive to more safety
- observing that the "good guy/girl with a gun" thing is not a good basis for gun policy (even if it works out OK some of the time)
- getting some amount of satisfaction out of being handed a clear example of the above (mixed with regret and annoyance that there is one more victim of poor gun and law enforcement policy)
are in any way inconsistent with or contradictory to
- respect for specific people who are trained appropriately with firearms and employ that training to do good things, in the United States as it exists today
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On December 06 2018 11:46 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 11:26 Danglars wrote:On December 06 2018 10:39 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2018 08:59 Danglars wrote:On December 06 2018 06:34 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2018 05:28 Danglars wrote:An inmate who had escaped minutes earlier from a county jail in South Carolina was shot and killed by a woman after he kicked in her back door, the local sheriff said.
The inmate was still in his orange jail jumpsuit and had grabbed a knife sharpening tool from the woman’s kitchen in Pickens as he headed toward her bedroom around 3 a.m. Tuesday, Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said.
“This was a big guy. If she hadn’t had a weapon there’s no telling what would have happened,” Clark said. “I gave her a big hug. I told her how proud I was of her.”
The woman was home alone and had gone through training to get a concealed weapons permit, Clark said.
Bruce McLaughlin Jr., 30, died from a gunshot to the head, Pickens County Coroner Kandy Kelley said.
McLaughlin and a second inmate, Timothy Dill, beat up two guards in an escape they had planned for days, Clark said at a news conference.
Dill was recaptured by deputies without incident about the same time McLaughlin was shot, but the two were going in opposite directions, the sheriff said.
The guards had bruises and one complained of a sore back, but they should recover, Clark said.
Inmates tried to help the guards while they were attacked, Clark said.
McLaughlin and Dill stole the guards’ keys and locked them in a room, but inmates also broke the door down, the sheriff said.
Dill is charged with escape along with two counts of kidnapping, and first-degree assault and battery as well as other charges.
McLaughlin had been in and out of the Pickens County jail about a dozen times on charges ranging from drug possession to assaulting a police officer to shoplifting. He was currently awaiting trial on first-degree burglary and grand larceny charges, according to sheriff’s office records.
Dill was awaiting trial on a criminal sexual conduct with a minor charge.
The sheriff said the homeowner was shaken by the shooting and asked him to help her maintain her privacy. He did not release her name.
Clark said he thinks the shooting is justified, but will forward the case file to prosecutors once the investigation is finished.
“This is the shining example” of why owning and knowing how to use a gun is important, the sheriff said.
“She came out on the good on this end and the other guy, the bad guy, didn’t,” Clark said. KTLAJust because this thread tends towards the gruesome and routinely disparages good guys (gals) with guns, he's a story of when it mattered from the other side. I stand against anyone that wants to belittle armed citizens at home, implying it's better off for them to not own a gun than to have one available for home defense. Three cheers for the woman, and for South Carolina's "Shall Issue" laws. This doesn’t really happen. There is no disparaging of real people who commit acts of heroism or defend themselves, you simply imply that is the case by putting words into peoples mouths. It is good that the woman was able to defend herself and you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the thread who would say otherwise. You're just ignorant or being purposefully dense. Posters here have literally reduced good guy with a gun to " More purpose designed killing devices = more safety". And then gone on to many guffaws when one was killed by police after his act of service. You just have a political axe to grind, as usual. No, I’m simply highlighting that you decided what other people’s opinions about that article were and argued against them. You didn’t post that article to have a discussion about it, but to put people you disagree with in a corner of our choosing. It is a naked attempt to control the conversation. You made a positive declaration that one thing has never happened and my implication is unfounded, and will not debate on the direct quote I brought up to counter it. You can show further ignorance on what has and hasn't been said in the past at your leisure. I think it's more reflective on what you wish "didn't really happen" or what you wish I had said that you think is unfair. I'll look at any evidence you can provide, but can't justify another response if it's all simple assertion of falsehood. I do not see how - sarcastically observing that the prevalence of purpose designed killing devices is not on the whole conducive to more safety - observing that the "good guy/girl with a gun" thing is not a good basis for gun policy (even if it works out OK some of the time) - getting some amount of satisfaction out of being handed a clear example of the above (mixed with regret and annoyance that there is one more victim of poor gun and law enforcement policy) are in any way inconsistent with or contradictory to - respect for specific people who are trained appropriately with firearms and employ that training to do good things, in the United States as it exists today
It’s not disparagement, it’s only sarcastic observation yielding an obvious show of satisfaction.
Well, I’m going to say your post is mealy-mouthed nonsense, and see if anyone reaches deep into that phrase to discover I’ve really shown it appreciation for the effort, made a mild aside as to its intellectual heft, shown some satisfaction at the lengths of justification, and really was making a point that it was on the whole a less than satisfactory appreciation of what disparagement consists of. (Do it twice and I’ll change the original post to “routinely done and routinely rationalized away” if you like)
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On December 06 2018 05:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +An inmate who had escaped minutes earlier from a county jail in South Carolina was shot and killed by a woman after he kicked in her back door, the local sheriff said.
The inmate was still in his orange jail jumpsuit and had grabbed a knife sharpening tool from the woman’s kitchen in Pickens as he headed toward her bedroom around 3 a.m. Tuesday, Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said.
“This was a big guy. If she hadn’t had a weapon there’s no telling what would have happened,” Clark said. “I gave her a big hug. I told her how proud I was of her.”
The woman was home alone and had gone through training to get a concealed weapons permit, Clark said.
Bruce McLaughlin Jr., 30, died from a gunshot to the head, Pickens County Coroner Kandy Kelley said.
McLaughlin and a second inmate, Timothy Dill, beat up two guards in an escape they had planned for days, Clark said at a news conference.
Dill was recaptured by deputies without incident about the same time McLaughlin was shot, but the two were going in opposite directions, the sheriff said.
The guards had bruises and one complained of a sore back, but they should recover, Clark said.
Inmates tried to help the guards while they were attacked, Clark said.
McLaughlin and Dill stole the guards’ keys and locked them in a room, but inmates also broke the door down, the sheriff said.
Dill is charged with escape along with two counts of kidnapping, and first-degree assault and battery as well as other charges.
McLaughlin had been in and out of the Pickens County jail about a dozen times on charges ranging from drug possession to assaulting a police officer to shoplifting. He was currently awaiting trial on first-degree burglary and grand larceny charges, according to sheriff’s office records.
Dill was awaiting trial on a criminal sexual conduct with a minor charge.
The sheriff said the homeowner was shaken by the shooting and asked him to help her maintain her privacy. He did not release her name.
Clark said he thinks the shooting is justified, but will forward the case file to prosecutors once the investigation is finished.
“This is the shining example” of why owning and knowing how to use a gun is important, the sheriff said.
“She came out on the good on this end and the other guy, the bad guy, didn’t,” Clark said. KTLAJust because this thread tends towards the gruesome and routinely disparages good guys (gals) with guns, he's a story of when it mattered from the other side. I stand against anyone that wants to belittle armed citizens at home, implying it's better off for them to not own a gun than to have one available for home defense. Three cheers for the woman, and for South Carolina's "Shall Issue" laws.
Cool story... we have one of these for every 300-500 dead from other shootings... probably the ratio is wayyy larger than that even.
Also, this woman was trained with a concealed carry permit... something I'm pretty sure you don't believe in, because it restricts the rights of any potato head to carry a gun.
I know when one of these things happens it's like an NRA wet dream; the proverbial unicorn.
Have some perspective... if all gun owners were this responsible with their firearms and the sellers responsible with who they sold to, we wouldn't have the mass deaths from guns in the USA that we have.
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On December 06 2018 11:59 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 11:46 Aquanim wrote:On December 06 2018 11:26 Danglars wrote:On December 06 2018 10:39 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2018 08:59 Danglars wrote:On December 06 2018 06:34 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2018 05:28 Danglars wrote:An inmate who had escaped minutes earlier from a county jail in South Carolina was shot and killed by a woman after he kicked in her back door, the local sheriff said.
The inmate was still in his orange jail jumpsuit and had grabbed a knife sharpening tool from the woman’s kitchen in Pickens as he headed toward her bedroom around 3 a.m. Tuesday, Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said.
“This was a big guy. If she hadn’t had a weapon there’s no telling what would have happened,” Clark said. “I gave her a big hug. I told her how proud I was of her.”
The woman was home alone and had gone through training to get a concealed weapons permit, Clark said.
Bruce McLaughlin Jr., 30, died from a gunshot to the head, Pickens County Coroner Kandy Kelley said.
McLaughlin and a second inmate, Timothy Dill, beat up two guards in an escape they had planned for days, Clark said at a news conference.
Dill was recaptured by deputies without incident about the same time McLaughlin was shot, but the two were going in opposite directions, the sheriff said.
The guards had bruises and one complained of a sore back, but they should recover, Clark said.
Inmates tried to help the guards while they were attacked, Clark said.
McLaughlin and Dill stole the guards’ keys and locked them in a room, but inmates also broke the door down, the sheriff said.
Dill is charged with escape along with two counts of kidnapping, and first-degree assault and battery as well as other charges.
McLaughlin had been in and out of the Pickens County jail about a dozen times on charges ranging from drug possession to assaulting a police officer to shoplifting. He was currently awaiting trial on first-degree burglary and grand larceny charges, according to sheriff’s office records.
Dill was awaiting trial on a criminal sexual conduct with a minor charge.
The sheriff said the homeowner was shaken by the shooting and asked him to help her maintain her privacy. He did not release her name.
Clark said he thinks the shooting is justified, but will forward the case file to prosecutors once the investigation is finished.
“This is the shining example” of why owning and knowing how to use a gun is important, the sheriff said.
“She came out on the good on this end and the other guy, the bad guy, didn’t,” Clark said. KTLAJust because this thread tends towards the gruesome and routinely disparages good guys (gals) with guns, he's a story of when it mattered from the other side. I stand against anyone that wants to belittle armed citizens at home, implying it's better off for them to not own a gun than to have one available for home defense. Three cheers for the woman, and for South Carolina's "Shall Issue" laws. This doesn’t really happen. There is no disparaging of real people who commit acts of heroism or defend themselves, you simply imply that is the case by putting words into peoples mouths. It is good that the woman was able to defend herself and you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the thread who would say otherwise. You're just ignorant or being purposefully dense. Posters here have literally reduced good guy with a gun to " More purpose designed killing devices = more safety". And then gone on to many guffaws when one was killed by police after his act of service. You just have a political axe to grind, as usual. No, I’m simply highlighting that you decided what other people’s opinions about that article were and argued against them. You didn’t post that article to have a discussion about it, but to put people you disagree with in a corner of our choosing. It is a naked attempt to control the conversation. You made a positive declaration that one thing has never happened and my implication is unfounded, and will not debate on the direct quote I brought up to counter it. You can show further ignorance on what has and hasn't been said in the past at your leisure. I think it's more reflective on what you wish "didn't really happen" or what you wish I had said that you think is unfair. I'll look at any evidence you can provide, but can't justify another response if it's all simple assertion of falsehood. I do not see how - sarcastically observing that the prevalence of purpose designed killing devices is not on the whole conducive to more safety - observing that the "good guy/girl with a gun" thing is not a good basis for gun policy (even if it works out OK some of the time) - getting some amount of satisfaction out of being handed a clear example of the above (mixed with regret and annoyance that there is one more victim of poor gun and law enforcement policy) are in any way inconsistent with or contradictory to - respect for specific people who are trained appropriately with firearms and employ that training to do good things, in the United States as it exists today It’s not disparagement, it’s only sarcastic observation yielding an obvious show of satisfaction. Well, I’m going to say your post is mealy-mouthed nonsense, and see if anyone reaches deep into that phrase to discover I’ve really shown it appreciation for the effort, made a mild aside as to its intellectual heft, shown some satisfaction at the lengths of justification, and really was making a point that it was on the whole a less than satisfactory appreciation of what disparagement consists of. (Do it twice and I’ll change the original post to “routinely done and routinely rationalized away” if you like)
You appear to be confusing "disparagement of the concept of 'good people with guns' as a basis for gun policy" with "disparagement of actual and real good people with guns".
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what was the point of linking that article danglars? you jumped at the thought of being able to say to us "HA. I TOLD YOU SO"?
you cant cherry pick 1 story and say its representative of why your gun laws dont need changing
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Ahh the old Donald Trump "Have you seen the weather outside, its freezing, and they said there was global warming, idiots" argument.
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On December 06 2018 15:04 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what was the point of linking that article danglars? you jumped at the thought of being able to say to us "HA. I TOLD YOU SO"?
you cant cherry pick 1 story and say its representative of why your gun laws dont need changing
People talked about how there were so little examples of private guns doing good, please don't get too partisan.
One question though: if the woman didn't have a gun and just fled her home without killing the invader, how many of you would prefer that outcome?
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On December 06 2018 17:23 schaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 15:04 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what was the point of linking that article danglars? you jumped at the thought of being able to say to us "HA. I TOLD YOU SO"?
you cant cherry pick 1 story and say its representative of why your gun laws dont need changing People talked about how there were so little examples of private guns doing good, please don't get too partisan. One question though: if the woman didn't have a gun and just fled her home without killing the invader, how many of you would prefer that outcome?
Yeah its probably a better outcome, especially if she calls the police and the intruder is caught.
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On December 06 2018 17:23 schaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 15:04 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what was the point of linking that article danglars? you jumped at the thought of being able to say to us "HA. I TOLD YOU SO"?
you cant cherry pick 1 story and say its representative of why your gun laws dont need changing People talked about how there were so little examples of private guns doing good, please don't get too partisan. One question though: if the woman didn't have a gun and just fled her home without killing the invader, how many of you would prefer that outcome?
I certainly think that preserving her life and leaving her home is an acceptable outcome. Belongings can be replaced and the downsides to owning a gun and using it in such a situation are removed.
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On December 06 2018 17:23 schaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 15:04 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what was the point of linking that article danglars? you jumped at the thought of being able to say to us "HA. I TOLD YOU SO"?
you cant cherry pick 1 story and say its representative of why your gun laws dont need changing People talked about how there were so little examples of private guns doing good, please don't get too partisan. One question though: if the woman didn't have a gun and just fled her home without killing the invader, how many of you would prefer that outcome?
prefer is not the right way to put it. like jock said, it is the better outcome.
yes the woman may lose some belongings, but she avoids a dangerous situation which despite how it actually turned out, could have ended much worse. she also lets police do their job and hopefully catch the guy, who now spends time in jail or whatever and ideally gets rehabilitated so that he can be a productive member of society.
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On December 06 2018 18:48 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 17:23 schaf wrote:On December 06 2018 15:04 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what was the point of linking that article danglars? you jumped at the thought of being able to say to us "HA. I TOLD YOU SO"?
you cant cherry pick 1 story and say its representative of why your gun laws dont need changing People talked about how there were so little examples of private guns doing good, please don't get too partisan. One question though: if the woman didn't have a gun and just fled her home without killing the invader, how many of you would prefer that outcome? prefer is not the right way to put it. like jock said, it is the better outcome. yes the woman may lose some belongings, but she avoids a dangerous situation which despite how it actually turned out, could have ended much worse. she also lets police do their job and hopefully catch the guy, who now spends time in jail or whatever and ideally gets rehabilitated so that he can be a productive member of society.
And she doesn't have to deal with potential (and probable) ptsd for the rest of her life. Taking a life is not easy on the psyche
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On December 06 2018 17:23 schaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 15:04 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what was the point of linking that article danglars? you jumped at the thought of being able to say to us "HA. I TOLD YOU SO"?
you cant cherry pick 1 story and say its representative of why your gun laws dont need changing People talked about how there were so little examples of private guns doing good, please don't get too partisan. One question though: if the woman didn't have a gun and just fled her home without killing the invader, how many of you would prefer that outcome?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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On December 06 2018 17:23 schaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2018 15:04 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what was the point of linking that article danglars? you jumped at the thought of being able to say to us "HA. I TOLD YOU SO"?
you cant cherry pick 1 story and say its representative of why your gun laws dont need changing People talked about how there were so little examples of private guns doing good, please don't get too partisan. One question though: if the woman didn't have a gun and just fled her home without killing the invader, how many of you would prefer that outcome?
Hehe thanks for that.
I rather liked hearing 100% of responses on the side of acceptability or preference for fleeing out of the home when an escaped inmate and "big guy" kicks in a door, grabs a tool from the kitchen, and heads to the bedroom. This is information I want to take in from people that disagree with me on the level of gun control in the country.
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Yes its always enjoyable when people admit thinking that less death is good.
What a laugh we all had.
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On December 06 2018 23:48 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yes its always enjoyable when people admit thinking that less death is good.
What a laugh we all had.
I prefer not to assume the majority of posters here prefer an unarmed woman fleeing for her life. I'd rather have 100% respond with their honest opinion. How am I to know the number that think the reverse (armed, trained, successfully defending life and property) is zero?
I don't even begrudge you your cynical comment; more information is good in this debate and others, regardless of how many people think it's eye-rollingly obvious.
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Fleeing for your life is horrible, and no-one should be placed in that situation, but given time and support, you can get over it.
Being shot to death is altogether more permanent. I would wager that for most people, in terms of psychological damage, shooting and killing someone is more damaging than having to run away.
Its worse for everyone that it ended this way, probably. The only exception is if the criminal then got away and killed someone else, but the responsibility to stop that shouldn't be on some woman in her house.
ps this is what i love about you danglars, I never know whether you're going to come back at me with flames or lullabies.
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EPT
