Interesting series of documentaries about feminism - Page 4

On November 18 2013 22:57 Conti wrote:

Honestly, I think it simply boils down to us having very different associations with the word "feminism", and nothing more.

On November 18 2013 22:53 Crushinator wrote:


I don't think it is as simple as that. Which is why many people now describe themselves as egalitarian, because feminism only implies that women have gender biases to overcome. It says nothing about gender biases for men.'

I'm sad to see that few people seem to understand the point of my long-ass posts. Though I will consider the possibility that I am an idiot and/or a terrible writer.

On November 18 2013 22:53 Crushinator wrote:


I don't think it is as simple as that. Which is why many people now describe themselves as egalitarian, because feminism only implies that women have gender biases to overcome. It says nothing about gender biases for men.'

I'm sad to see that few people seem to understand the point of my long-ass posts. Though I will consider the possibility that I am an idiot and/or a terrible writer.

On November 16 2013 10:53 stroggozzz wrote:


well it's about women trying to win over their rights, 'allowing' was the wrong word. But there are certain rights they win over far more easily than other ones which are much better for women. Like raising children was pretty much a full time job for my mum but she never get paid for it. That is imo far better for women than winning over the right to become a CEO or attain a powerful position in the workplace. One of the major political parties in my own government pledges to make 50% of their party women, for example. But that's hardly going to change the life of the majority of women in the country imo. The same party still locks up huge amounts of moari in jail for cannibas posession, but they think having a huge amount of moari in their party is going to solve that problem when it doesn't.

Maybe im totally wrong here. I got a pretty superficial understanding of feminism tbh, most of my of what i think is just from talking to my mum lol.

On November 18 2013 23:00 Grumbels wrote:

I'm sure that during the time of the civil rights movement you would be one of those people that would complain that it was focused too much on racism against black people when it should also be about racism against white people.

Also, obsessing about the "femin" in the word feminism and saying that you can't support it for that reason is the flimsiest rationale to not support something that I've ever heard. Women have historically been oppressed, feminism is a movement that seeks to address this. It's not some meaningless abstract "egalitarian" position, it's about addressing actual injustice.

On November 18 2013 23:01 yamato77 wrote:

Historically, women's issues far outweighed men's issues. They still do, for the most part. The focus of feminism is women's issues because women still aren't truly equal. Feminism fights against institutionalized sexism. That sort of sexism simply doesn't exist for men. Men have social issues that are specific to being male, but they are not at an institutional level.

On November 18 2013 23:21 Crushinator wrote:


I very much disagree that gender issues for men are of a different nature than those for women. As a matter of policy, many daycare centers do not hire men. As a matter of policy, many clothing shops do not hire men. As a man you do not want be alone with a child or teenager, nor would people trust you to be. It is harder for men to get the same rights as a parent in almost all countries. Men are more often unemployed, more often homeless, more often live in poverty, more often the victim of violence. Less likely to graduate university, more often bullied at school, and less likely to be protected from it. When a man shows anger/outrage he is described as dominant and agressive, while a woman is described as strong and assertive.

This is just off the top of my head, the list is very long, as it would be for women aswell. I fail to see how you can make such a definite determination that women have it so much worse. I do not mean to say that it is actually men that are the true victims, but it does smell like dogma to me that women are always the victims in gender relations.

On November 18 2013 23:29 Conti wrote:

Statistics are not going to tell you who has it worse. Sit down and talk to a woman about the subject some day, and ask about these things. Then compare it to your life, and think about what set of advantages and disadvantages you'd rather have.

On November 18 2013 23:21 Crushinator wrote:


I very much disagree that gender issues for men are of a different nature than those for women. As a matter of policy, many daycare centers do not hire men. As a matter of policy, many clothing shops do not hire men. As a man you do not want be alone with a child or teenager, nor would people trust you to be. It is harder for men to get the same rights as a parent in almost all countries. Men are more often unemployed, more often homeless, more often live in poverty, more often the victim of violence. Less likely to graduate university, more often bullied at school, and less likely to be protected from it. When a man shows anger/outrage he is described as dominant and agressive, while a woman is described as strong and assertive.

This is just off the top of my head, the list is very long, as it would be for women aswell. I fail to see how you can make such a definite determination that women have it so much worse. I do not mean to say that it is actually men that are the true victims, but it does smell like dogma to me that women are always the victims in gender relations.

On November 18 2013 23:37 Crushinator wrote:


i agree about the statistics (a fact that I belief supports my point), and I make a habit out of dissenting when women talk about how tough they have it. Most women have more balanced opinions than men oddly enough. Men are not usually aware of the ways in which we are disadvantaged, nor are men inclined to complain about it.

On November 18 2013 23:44 yamato77 wrote:

Who holds positions of power in society, men or women? Why?

Answer those questions, and you will realize what I'm talking about.

On November 18 2013 23:46 Conti wrote:

I can only speak for myself, of course, but so far in my life I have not yet come across a situation where, had I been a woman, I would have been better off. Of course I could complain that, statistically speaking, I was bullied more or whatever, but, well, that's just a silly statistics game. And I'm really not sure where I am disadvantaged. I'm sure there are examples to be found, but so far it really doesn't seem bother me.

On November 18 2013 23:50 Crushinator wrote:


I can't give many personal examples either. But the lack of personal experience isn't a very strong argument.

On November 19 2013 00:04 Conti wrote:

Why not? I mean, what's your goal here? "But men have it bad, too!" is a valid thing to say, but when someone is saying it he also usually implicitly says "So stop complaining, women." Which is just not the right thing to say for so many reasons. And if you did not mean to say the latter, what's your point?

Yes, men get more jail time, they die earlier, etc. So what? Find the causes for all these inequality issues, then see how they can be fixed (preferably by not throwing more women in jail to even the score). Exactly the same needs to be done for statistical issues where women are in a disadvantage.

I'm really not sure where we're disagreeing here.

On November 19 2013 00:15 Crushinator wrote:


Doesn't seem like we are in much of a disagreement, no. Doesn't mean that we can exchange thoughts though, don't think this is a debate club.

Though I will offer the point that not all statistical inequalities can or need to be fixed. Some of the difference could be explained by innate differences between the sexes, might be that women on average are less interested in achieving a position of power. Might be that men are more likely to take risks, leading to more extreme outcomes. Indeed both of those things seem plausible.

Edit: Oh and my intention was to bring attention to the fact that men have problems too, and bad things can happen under the guise of feminism, And I do believe discussing that is the point of the OP.

On November 19 2013 00:24 Shiragaku wrote:

Yeah, we feminists know that. We do not sit at our meetings envying men because they have no problems. We know the bullshit men face, we know that men have it unfair when it comes to homelessness and child custody. We know that men have it unfair when they are restricted to certain gender roles that deny who we are sometimes.

On November 19 2013 00:28 Crushinator wrote:


I'm not sure if you can speak for all or even most feminists. But if you feel confident about that, then that is great and I would probably be happy to come out and call myself a feminist.