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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On May 08 2016 07:31 bloodwhore~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2016 07:25 Fyodor wrote:
You want to talk about "the game"? You're playing your own version of the game where you are as indirect and mousy as possible in order to get what you want. "First off, there's no rule that says you need to kiss someone on the first date.". Um yes, there is. It is 100% unequivocal in all of western culture that a date ends in a kiss.
Have you been smoking? In what world do you live in where it has to end with a kiss? Not the western culture at least. Show nested quote +Just when you end the date, approach calmly, grab her close, rest your forehead against hers if you have to. If she doesn't push back then seal the deal.
This must be bait. Rest your forhead against hers? What the hell. :D
No one wants to (...) wait too long and it sends the vibe you’re not interested or that you lack confidence. So when should you dive in? Most women I’ve spoken to say it should happen on the first or second date.
Sari Locker, Ph.D. TV commentator and author of the bestseller, The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Amazing Sex. She was the host of Late Date with Sari on Lifetime Television; she has an M.S. in Sexuality Education and an M.A. in Developmental Psychology. http://www.match.ca/magazine/article/3394/First-Kisses-The-New-Rules/
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While that is quite true and relatively good advice in a general sense, it misses 2 big points:
One is that it guides you into trying to force it to happen at some point. People don't necessarily click in the first couple of dates, especially if it they are short. Trying to force it can make it uncomfortable for one or both people, which can be detrimental.
The second is that it can lead people into having some kind of expectation or some kind of sense of entitlement. Going into a date with any kind of expectation is a bad idea, because when things don't go as planned, then it can end up being disappointing.
Society still expects guys to make the first move, and yes generally it is expected in the first couple of dates, but if you're watching carefully enough, it should be pretty obvious when the girl wants the guy to make a move. Sometimes things click quickly, sometimes it takes longer. There is no universal "right" time for it, you just have to figure out how to figure it out.
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@TheDougler:
damn dude, that's really awesome to hear. That's cute as fuck and it's not like I know you personally or anything, but fuck if you don't kick ass for pulling through the depression and life and shit, and just for keeping on. u go gurl
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Hey the Doug u Alrdy did better than fyodor has ever done in his life so good on u and don't listen to that dweeb
-posted from my Blackberry 10 Smartphone
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Okay from an experienced person's standpoint (who knows what he's doing):
You don't click on first couple dates, there is no more dates. So if you don't kiss on first or second, there's little point in continuing. Unless you are a PUA (or the pretty much just the other side of the same coin, someone who actively pursues relationship, regardless of the other person+compatibility) you should discard women ASAP early in the process, and only proceed with the ones that you do click with. And it's hard to see attraction not being high on the list if lifetime relationship is what you want.
So if you have no internal want to kiss or get physical with a woman during first few dates, it will in vast majority cases be a sign that you should move on.
Now from a Virgin/inexperienced person's perspective. This doesn't matter at all - you won't recognise when you click or not, you don't know how to get physical when you really want to, won't recognise signs to both move forward or exit and there's always nerves/excitement from dating itself that won't allow you to think clearly about the other person. So pretty much ANY experience is a good one, you are making progress and going from no dates to a one even one that ended with a hug is pretty damn awesome, and a big step!
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On May 08 2016 07:25 Fyodor wrote:
You want to talk about "the game"? You're playing your own version of the game where you are as indirect and mousy as possible in order to get what you want. "First off, there's no rule that says you need to kiss someone on the first date.". Um yes, there is. It is 100% unequivocal in all of western culture that a date ends in a kiss.
That's some alpha level trolling bro.
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As to second date ideas
This is when it matters a lot after the first brief meetup, and will be make or break most of the time, and a date you should talk about a lot in months to come so make it count.
1) Always pick multiple activities + changing venues
Very important - just plan 3-5 1hour ish stops you can do in one day. Conversation gets stale, too heavy on one topic, or too much pressure on keeping it up - you just stand up and leave, start picking up experiences together. And you also can get physical when changing venues easily. You don't have to go to all of them of course. But worst thing is being stuck in a place not knowing where to go next. Takes focus off the date, makes you look weak.
2) Activities
Discard cinema/comedy clubs/theatre or anything where conversation is difficult
Instead choose
Light sports: minigolf, pool, bowling, informal dancing on a boat, trampoline park...
Food: food festivals, group cooking, dinner on a boat, wine tasting . . .
Cafes/Bars: Cool ones, with a story. Or ones you like, places will cool produce, cat cafes, top of building bars... do your research.
Sightseeing/Galleries: Cool museums you know stuff about, historic towers/lookouts (surprisingly fun), small concerts in bars where you can talk (i.e. jazz clubs are fine for this often)
Activity Trackers: Any major city will have a service that put together activities/festivals/events in town, at least
Prague has this. Sign up to all of them, all facebook groups with events and free activities etc. Do your research watch that shit and pick cool stuff.
EDIT: Oh and Groupon and other discount servers are YUGE for food/activities. Not just discounts themselves, but for ideas too!
I've taken girls to things from a lecture on chemistry of love, painting each other's bodies with colours on a boat at the sound of bongo drums to soup disco with discarded supermarket produce.
This is incredible for actually getting the girl, having fun yourself, enriching your life and you will build a foundation for literally years. On dates with my girlfriend we could literally just talk about things that remind us about cool dates and nothing else if we wanted to.
3) Mix and match the activities. It usually can revolve around:
- Theme days with similar themed things
- One main one followed by cafe's etc. (minigolf in an area + "there's a couple cool places I wanted to check out")
- Always plan the logistics around food/drink, know your travel distances between venues so you can focus on the date itself.
Good luck. If this research and planning sounds like a lot of work, it's definitely worth it in the short and long run. And if you only spend time with girls you really strongly do click with, you won't mind one bit.
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On May 08 2016 08:49 LemOn wrote:
As to second date ideas
This is when it matters a lot after the first brief meetup, and will be make or break most of the time, and a date you should talk about a lot in months to come so make it count.
1) Always pick multiple activities + changing venues
Very important - just plan 3-5 1hour ish stops you can do in one day. Conversation gets stale, too heavy on one topic, or too much pressure on keeping it up - you just stand up and leave, start picking up experiences together. And you also can get physical when changing venues easily. You don't have to go to all of them of course. But worst thing is being stuck in a place not knowing where to go next. Takes focus off the date, makes you look weak.
2) Activities
Discard cinema/comedy clubs/theatre or anything where conversation is difficult
Instead choose
Light sports: minigolf, pool, bowling, informal dancing on a boat, trampoline park...
Food: food festivals, group cooking, dinner on a boat, wine tasting . . .
Cafes/Bars: Cool ones, with a story. Or ones you like, places will cool produce, cat cafes, top of building bars... do your research.
Sightseeing/Galleries: Cool museums you know stuff about, historic towers/lookouts (surprisingly fun), small concerts in bars where you can talk (i.e. jazz clubs are fine for this often)
Activity Trackers: Any major city will have a service that put together activities/festivals/events in town, at least
Prague has this. Sign up to all of them, all facebook groups with events and free activities etc. Do your research watch that shit and pick cool stuff.
EDIT: Oh and Groupon and other discount servers are YUGE for food/activities. Not just discounts themselves, but for ideas too!
I've taken girls to things from a lecture on chemistry of love, painting each other's bodies with colours on a boat at the sound of bongo drums to soup disco with discarded supermarket produce.
This is incredible for actually getting the girl, having fun yourself, enriching your life and you will build a foundation for literally years. On dates with my girlfriend we could literally just talk about things that remind us about cool dates and nothing else if we wanted to.
3) Mix and match the activities. It usually can revolve around:
- Theme days with similar themed things
- One main one followed by cafe's etc. (minigolf in an area + "there's a couple cool places I wanted to check out")
- Always plan the logistics around food/drink, know your travel distances between venues so you can focus on the date itself.
Good luck. If this research and planning sounds like a lot of work, it's definitely worth it in the short and long run. And if you only spend time with girls you really strongly do click with, you won't mind one bit.
Honestly, I don't think my girlfriend or I remember what we did on our second date, other than that we kissed. We often still talk about our first date. Which in a traditional dating sense was an abject failure. We went to a really cool jazz jam session, which was far too loud to allow for conversation and far too crowded to allow for any meaningful physical contact (being squashed like sardines doesn't count). Thankfully I realized it was a hopeless situation and dragged her out; and we went for a walk. I believe the second date we just went for a walk around the beach, but I am not sure. Might have included more stuff.
Imho, don't overthink it. Do something you enjoy and she can enjoy too. Bouldering is good, but I would not go wall climbing. 1. She can't belay, and 2. There's significant periods when conversation is impossible. That's important; you want to do something that allows for conversation and physical closeness (pool example was pretty good, if very textbook).
Anyway, I'm happy for Douglas; really a nice story to share with us, and keep up this attitude  Just ignore fyodor. He seems a bit bitter, but mainly plain wrong. Kissing on the first date is NOT a requirement. But you should be wanting to touch her, and she should be wanting to touch you (and be touched). But it happens quite naturally, if you click. Billions of humans have gone before you, and before PUA ever became a thing.
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Shit i need to break up with my fiance then. When we started dating years ago we took it slow and didnt kiss for way more than two dates.
Damn, and i really thought it was perfect with her. But thanks for opening my eyes, now i see that I was dead in the waters all those years. Should have really tried to kiss her on the first date.
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On May 08 2016 10:14 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Shit i need to break up with my fiance then. When we started dating years ago we took it slow and didnt kiss for way more than two dates.
Damn, and i really thought it was perfect with her. But thanks for opening my eyes, now i see that I was dead in the waters all those years. Should have really tried to kiss her on the first date.
sorry it has to be that way man
i dunno me personally always go with a goal of something in mind.
usually just getting a hug or something(which for 99% of people id wager isnt weird)
if you can tell things are going super well i might bump it up to what i think i might be able to get
if i dont get anything ill re-evaluate the situation
but a lot also depends i think on how much shit you've talked to each other before you go on the first date too i think
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I kissed my fiancee on the third date. Granted, that was back in high school...
Anyways, I don't know if it's a requirement per se to have multiple activities lined up in a row for a second date like LemOn said, but I think that's a really good list of activities that could work for dates. I also want to reiterate a statement he made that I think is really important:
Discard cinema/comedy clubs/theatre or anything where conversation is difficult
Verrry strongly agree with this one for first/ second dates, as the dates should still be about getting to know the person and communication and being able to chitchat and laugh and flirt! Can't do that (as easily) if you're sitting in the dark and supposed to be silent.
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On May 08 2016 07:25 Fyodor wrote:
You want to talk about "the game"? You're playing your own version of the game where you are as indirect and mousy as possible in order to get what you want. "First off, there's no rule that says you need to kiss someone on the first date.". Um yes, there is. It is 100% unequivocal in all of western culture that a date ends in a kiss.
Just when you end the date, approach calmly, grab her close, rest your forehead against hers if you have to. If she doesn't push back then seal the deal.
You do not want to be exiting date 2 without a kiss. If she is a girl that breathes air and drinks water then she will expect a kiss.
On the first date? No way. Two hours ago I was praying to all the gods I know that she isn't fat, and now after recovering from that I'm supposed to actually kiss her?
Unless you're on drugs at that point, that's a hookup, not a date.
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Thanks guys. Haters gonna hate. Don't worry about him, if I was still in the space where I let internet trolls tell me how to run my romance life, I wouldn't be able to exude the confidence this chick seems to be enjoying so much. Mousy? Nah, just not desperate any more. It'll come, she and I have agreed we don't need to follow the rules, and I think that's a great sign. I appreciate all the activities tips! That's good and useful stuff!
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I dont think he is trolling. Depending on what you are looking for, where you life and what you do there are a lot of scenarios where he will also be right. The problem, like always, lies in overly dramatic generalizations and such
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On May 08 2016 15:30 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
I dont think he is trolling. Depending on what you are looking for, where you life and what you do there are a lot of scenarios where he will also be right. The problem, like always, lies in overly dramatic generalizations and such
You're right. I shouldn't have labeled him as such. There was definitely a time in my life where I would have agreed 100% with what he's saying. And I suppose he might just be trying to help here. So yeah fair point, I shouldn't have said he was trolling. The "mousy" comment about me getting what I want just bugged me a bit. It's definitely more about her and I getting what we want than me getting what I want. It's easy to delude oneself into thinking the girl has no say in the matter if the dude makes all the right moves, but that's just not reality.
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On May 08 2016 09:57 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2016 08:49 LemOn wrote:
As to second date ideas
This is when it matters a lot after the first brief meetup, and will be make or break most of the time, and a date you should talk about a lot in months to come so make it count.
1) Always pick multiple activities + changing venues
Very important - just plan 3-5 1hour ish stops you can do in one day. Conversation gets stale, too heavy on one topic, or too much pressure on keeping it up - you just stand up and leave, start picking up experiences together. And you also can get physical when changing venues easily. You don't have to go to all of them of course. But worst thing is being stuck in a place not knowing where to go next. Takes focus off the date, makes you look weak.
2) Activities
Discard cinema/comedy clubs/theatre or anything where conversation is difficult
Instead choose
Light sports: minigolf, pool, bowling, informal dancing on a boat, trampoline park...
Food: food festivals, group cooking, dinner on a boat, wine tasting . . .
Cafes/Bars: Cool ones, with a story. Or ones you like, places will cool produce, cat cafes, top of building bars... do your research.
Sightseeing/Galleries: Cool museums you know stuff about, historic towers/lookouts (surprisingly fun), small concerts in bars where you can talk (i.e. jazz clubs are fine for this often)
Activity Trackers: Any major city will have a service that put together activities/festivals/events in town, at least
Prague has this. Sign up to all of them, all facebook groups with events and free activities etc. Do your research watch that shit and pick cool stuff.
EDIT: Oh and Groupon and other discount servers are YUGE for food/activities. Not just discounts themselves, but for ideas too!
I've taken girls to things from a lecture on chemistry of love, painting each other's bodies with colours on a boat at the sound of bongo drums to soup disco with discarded supermarket produce.
This is incredible for actually getting the girl, having fun yourself, enriching your life and you will build a foundation for literally years. On dates with my girlfriend we could literally just talk about things that remind us about cool dates and nothing else if we wanted to.
3) Mix and match the activities. It usually can revolve around:
- Theme days with similar themed things
- One main one followed by cafe's etc. (minigolf in an area + "there's a couple cool places I wanted to check out")
- Always plan the logistics around food/drink, know your travel distances between venues so you can focus on the date itself.
Good luck. If this research and planning sounds like a lot of work, it's definitely worth it in the short and long run. And if you only spend time with girls you really strongly do click with, you won't mind one bit. Honestly, I don't think my girlfriend or I remember what we did on our second date, other than that we kissed. We often still talk about our first date. Which in a traditional dating sense was an abject failure. We went to a really cool jazz jam session, which was far too loud to allow for conversation and far too crowded to allow for any meaningful physical contact (being squashed like sardines doesn't count). Thankfully I realized it was a hopeless situation and dragged her out; and we went for a walk. I believe the second date we just went for a walk around the beach, but I am not sure. Might have included more stuff.
What you want is to have nothing stand in way of attraction/easy flow, and you do want to do things that add to it. Especially attractive smart women will have probably lots of guys lined up, they're hit on frequently, go on dates quite a bit...and in the age of social media, online dating they have infinite choice and you might lose her because of bad dates experience, even if you are a great match (especially early on)
Imagine how'd it be if you have a couple more cool things lined up there, you'd leave the jazz club after 2 minutes and had other places lined up instead of thinking where you'll go - planning beforehand allows you focus on the moment when you are on the date.
Also the changing venues...straight out of PUA playbook, motion creates emotion as they say. It creates the illusion of experiences together fast, as already mentioned takes pressure off conversation, gives options when it becomes stale. And again, makes the flow of the date very easy with touching/kissing when getting in and out of venues. Especially kissing at the end of the date plain sucks, super predictable, creates pressure on both of you, eww. With moving between places you've got so many more options and opportunities for natural physical contact.
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On May 08 2016 10:14 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Shit i need to break up with my fiance then. When we started dating years ago we took it slow and didnt kiss for way more than two dates.
Damn, and i really thought it was perfect with her. But thanks for opening my eyes, now i see that I was dead in the waters all those years. Should have really tried to kiss her on the first date.
Yeah, you should probably break it off bro.
Or, which is vastly more likely, you had no clue what you were doing back then - did you really have no urge to get close to her and kiss those sexy lips of hers on the initial several dates when you didn't? 
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On May 08 2016 16:59 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2016 10:14 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Shit i need to break up with my fiance then. When we started dating years ago we took it slow and didnt kiss for way more than two dates.
Damn, and i really thought it was perfect with her. But thanks for opening my eyes, now i see that I was dead in the waters all those years. Should have really tried to kiss her on the first date. Yeah, you should probably break it off bro. Or, which is vastly more likely, you had no clue what you were doing back then - did you really have no urge to get close to her and kiss those sexy lips of hers on the initial several dates when you didn't?
Tbh i didnt know what was going on but i decided to just go with whatever happened and when the moment was right i went for it. Sure i imagend kissing her before i even went on the first date but through getting to know her it felt like we'd have all the time in the world to build things up, so there was no rush. If i went for the kiss earlier im sure she wouldnt have objected, lol, but (im speculating here) it couldhave felt forced, like tryng to recreate a movie scene if you know what im saying.
So if you feel like kissing on the first date, by all means, do it! But imo trying to stick to a skript or ticking off boxes for each date seems forced and wouldnt be my thing.
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Wow. I am in Singapore for work. If you happen to live in Singapore and want to take a girl out on a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 217th date, I recommend the Gardens by the Bay. What a spectacular place, and has everything you might possibly want in a date.
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Damn this thread kicked off all of a sudden.
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EPT
