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On August 28 2011 20:17 RinesOnRx wrote:
Granted, SK's HS system has certainly has its problems, but I disagree that American system is any better. At least SK has something to show for with their HS students placing second in academic abilities after Finland.
Although it sucks for South Korean students and their parents, education system that they have is necessary/ inevitable for SK to remain competetive globally. What SK lacks in natural resources, it has to make up through human resources. It's too bad that unlike their high schools, their universities are a total fail.
I am very much interested in seeing this documentary, but I don't know how the film will achieve its goal of alleviating stress for Korean HS students.
Can you pls explain that a bit more, of course only if u don't mind because i' m really interested in this.
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On August 28 2011 20:17 RinesOnRx wrote:
Granted, SK's HS system has certainly has its problems, but I disagree that American system is any better. At least SK has something to show for with their HS students placing second in academic abilities after Finland.
Although it sucks for South Korean students and their parents, education system that they have is necessary/ inevitable for SK to remain competetive globally. What SK lacks in natural resources, it has to make up through human resources. It's too bad that unlike their high schools, their universities are a total fail.
I am very much interested in seeing this documentary, but I don't know how the film will achieve its goal of alleviating stress for Korean HS students.
I wonder where you are getting your sources from that their universities are a total fail.
I did not experience Korean university, so I cannot say for sure what the general university experience/study is like in Korea. But I can tell you at least the health care side of university is not lax at all. It is right up there with the medical schools and other health care field programs of Canada/US. And by the health care programs in Korea I mean medical doctorate programs & traditional Korean medicine programs. They both have very difficult and challenging curriculum as well as producing good and competent doctors.
(and as for source, I myself am studying a Western health care program as well as having other very close acquaintances studying other parts of Western health care programs. Also I have friends in Korea who are studying those 2 programs (MD program & Korean traditional medicine program)
To me it seems more of a relative comparison when they say Korean university is easy (when compared to their high school counterpart). Please don't assume they can pass through their university program w/o undertaking any serious effort & still be successful after they graduate.
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On August 29 2011 04:43 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 20:17 RinesOnRx wrote:
Granted, SK's HS system has certainly has its problems, but I disagree that American system is any better. At least SK has something to show for with their HS students placing second in academic abilities after Finland.
Although it sucks for South Korean students and their parents, education system that they have is necessary/ inevitable for SK to remain competetive globally. What SK lacks in natural resources, it has to make up through human resources. It's too bad that unlike their high schools, their universities are a total fail.
I am very much interested in seeing this documentary, but I don't know how the film will achieve its goal of alleviating stress for Korean HS students. I wonder where you are getting your sources from that their universities are a total fail. I did not experience Korean university, so I cannot say for sure what the general university experience/study is like in Korea. But I can tell you at least the health care side of university is not lax at all. It is right up there with the medical schools and other health care field programs of Canada/US. And by the health care programs in Korea I mean medical doctorate programs & traditional Korean medicine programs. They both have very difficult and challenging curriculum as well as producing good and competent doctors. (and as for source, I myself am studying a Western health care program as well as having other very close acquaintances studying other parts of Western health care programs. Also I have friends in Korea who are studying those 2 programs (MD program & Korean traditional medicine program) To me it seems more of a relative comparison when they say Korean university is easy (when compared to their high school counterpart). Please don't assume they can pass through their university program w/o undertaking any serious effort & still be successful after they graduate.
If you look at many of the worldwide university ranking lists, the Korean "Ivies" (SKY) tend to rank quite poorly compared to other big name universities. These top Korean unis only rank 250-300th in international lists, which could be considered weak compared to most large American universities which dominate these lists. I don't agree with the other poster that they are "total fail," but he is correct in that they do not have the same reputation outside of Korea as they do inside.
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On August 29 2011 08:53 TheNihilist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 04:43 LuciferSC wrote:On August 28 2011 20:17 RinesOnRx wrote:
Granted, SK's HS system has certainly has its problems, but I disagree that American system is any better. At least SK has something to show for with their HS students placing second in academic abilities after Finland.
Although it sucks for South Korean students and their parents, education system that they have is necessary/ inevitable for SK to remain competetive globally. What SK lacks in natural resources, it has to make up through human resources. It's too bad that unlike their high schools, their universities are a total fail.
I am very much interested in seeing this documentary, but I don't know how the film will achieve its goal of alleviating stress for Korean HS students. I wonder where you are getting your sources from that their universities are a total fail. I did not experience Korean university, so I cannot say for sure what the general university experience/study is like in Korea. But I can tell you at least the health care side of university is not lax at all. It is right up there with the medical schools and other health care field programs of Canada/US. And by the health care programs in Korea I mean medical doctorate programs & traditional Korean medicine programs. They both have very difficult and challenging curriculum as well as producing good and competent doctors. (and as for source, I myself am studying a Western health care program as well as having other very close acquaintances studying other parts of Western health care programs. Also I have friends in Korea who are studying those 2 programs (MD program & Korean traditional medicine program) To me it seems more of a relative comparison when they say Korean university is easy (when compared to their high school counterpart). Please don't assume they can pass through their university program w/o undertaking any serious effort & still be successful after they graduate. If you look at many of the worldwide university ranking lists, the Korean "Ivies" (SKY) tend to rank quite poorly compared to other big name universities. These top Korean unis only rank 250-300th in international lists, which could be considered weak compared to most large American universities which dominate these lists. I don't agree with the other poster that they are "total fail," but he is correct in that they do not have the same reputation outside of Korea as they do inside.
It would be nice if you would actually post a source for this, instead of just posting that. Myself I have been looking for some worldwide lists some time ago, but I felt they were totally biased towards the US. Not saying it isn't true, just that there are no real reasons to assume korean universities are weak.
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well if it is anything close to the japanese system then the hardest part is getting into university and after that it gets a lot easier.
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On August 29 2011 09:01 Waterhaak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 08:53 TheNihilist wrote:On August 29 2011 04:43 LuciferSC wrote:On August 28 2011 20:17 RinesOnRx wrote:
Granted, SK's HS system has certainly has its problems, but I disagree that American system is any better. At least SK has something to show for with their HS students placing second in academic abilities after Finland.
Although it sucks for South Korean students and their parents, education system that they have is necessary/ inevitable for SK to remain competetive globally. What SK lacks in natural resources, it has to make up through human resources. It's too bad that unlike their high schools, their universities are a total fail.
I am very much interested in seeing this documentary, but I don't know how the film will achieve its goal of alleviating stress for Korean HS students. I wonder where you are getting your sources from that their universities are a total fail. I did not experience Korean university, so I cannot say for sure what the general university experience/study is like in Korea. But I can tell you at least the health care side of university is not lax at all. It is right up there with the medical schools and other health care field programs of Canada/US. And by the health care programs in Korea I mean medical doctorate programs & traditional Korean medicine programs. They both have very difficult and challenging curriculum as well as producing good and competent doctors. (and as for source, I myself am studying a Western health care program as well as having other very close acquaintances studying other parts of Western health care programs. Also I have friends in Korea who are studying those 2 programs (MD program & Korean traditional medicine program) To me it seems more of a relative comparison when they say Korean university is easy (when compared to their high school counterpart). Please don't assume they can pass through their university program w/o undertaking any serious effort & still be successful after they graduate. If you look at many of the worldwide university ranking lists, the Korean "Ivies" (SKY) tend to rank quite poorly compared to other big name universities. These top Korean unis only rank 250-300th in international lists, which could be considered weak compared to most large American universities which dominate these lists. I don't agree with the other poster that they are "total fail," but he is correct in that they do not have the same reputation outside of Korea as they do inside. It would be nice if you would actually post a source for this, instead of just posting that. Myself I have been looking for some worldwide lists some time ago, but I felt they were totally biased towards the US. Not saying it isn't true, just that there are no real reasons to assume korean universities are weak.
Sure. Always good to show sources.
First, if you are worried about American bias, here's an often cited ranking list put together by Shanghai Jiao Tong University. They place the top Korean schools between 200-300th.
http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2009.jsp
Here's U.S. News & World Report rankings:
http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world
They rank the SKY between 80th-170th, which is better, but still well below other top American, European, and Asian universities.
On top of that, since so much money is funneled into the SKY schools the lower ranked Korean schools are very poorly funded and looked down on as inferior.
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My wife is from Hong Kong and came to Canada when she was 13 to study. I know it's not Korea but the same principles of supply and demand when it comes to availability of high-level education still hold for a small region where spots at universities and good high schools are hard to come by. The rest of her family did the same - as I am told is typical for families in China (mainly Hong Kong) who have the resources to send their kids abroad. I noticed the same thing when I attended university and found that more than half of the kids in my engineering classes at the UofA were Chinese.
As such, she got to attend a good university and get a good education without killing herself for it. It sucks that more families don't have the capabilities to make this happen (life and tuition as an international student is insanely expensive compared to us 'locals').
I remember when I finished high-school I was a less-than interested student though I still had the option to attend the program of my choice in the university of my choice in my country. What I mean is that I had zero stress as a student, never tortured myself over it (don't get me wrong, I had good grades), but could still get a top notch education wherever I wanted. I can see why so many people from Asian countries come here to get their education - our population is small and our universities are pretty decent (though based on the list above me, I should have went to McGill, dangit).
Anyways, sad. My memo to places like Korea or China or wherever is to please send your kids over here and let them live a more stress-free (albeit colder) life. And preferably at a young age so they stick around and make us a better country. Thanks for the donation, Asia!
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http://www.shanghairanking.com/
Rankings for 2011.
About ARWU:
The Academic Ranking of World Universities (ARWU) is first published in June 2003 by the Center for World-Class Universities (CWCU), Graduate School of Education (formerly the Institute of Higher Education) of Shanghai Jiao Tong University, China, and updated on an annual basis. ARWU uses six objective indicators to rank world universities, including the number of alumni and staff winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals, number of highly cited researchers selected by Thomson Scientific, number of articles published in journals of Nature and Science, number of articles indexed in Science Citation Index - Expanded and Social Sciences Citation Index, and per capita performance with respect to the size of an institution. More than 1000 universities are actually ranked by ARWU every year and the best 500 are published on the web.
Although the initial purpose of ARWU was to find the global standing of top Chinese universities, it has attracted a great deal of attention from universities, governments and public media worldwide. ARWU has been reported by mainstream media in almost all major countries. Hundreds of universities cited the ranking results in their campus news, annual reports or promotional brochures. A survey on higher education published by The Economist in 2005 commented ARWU as "the most widely used annual ranking of the world's research universities". Burton Bollag, a reporter at Chronicle of Higher Education wrote that ARWU "is considered the most influential international ranking".
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On August 29 2011 00:28 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 20:17 RinesOnRx wrote:
Granted, SK's HS system has certainly has its problems, but I disagree that American system is any better. At least SK has something to show for with their HS students placing second in academic abilities after Finland.
Although it sucks for South Korean students and their parents, education system that they have is necessary/ inevitable for SK to remain competetive globally. What SK lacks in natural resources, it has to make up through human resources. It's too bad that unlike their high schools, their universities are a total fail.
I am very much interested in seeing this documentary, but I don't know how the film will achieve its goal of alleviating stress for Korean HS students. Can you pls explain that a bit more, of course only if u don't mind because i' m really interested in this.
I don't have much time right now so this post will be brief. I will supplement it with more information with data/ articles afterwards.
As posters mentioned above, Korean schools' rankings are mediocore at best. I think Seoul University is the only one that is in top 100, and Yonsei and Korea are in the top 200. This is dismal considering there are ~200 univeristies in Korean and its students are the ones who ranked second internationally in HS. However, this doesn't really bother me because universities' rankings are indicative of its research capabilities, which doesn't necessarily correlate with the quality of education received by its students.
What really bothers me about Korean university is that many students don't take their studies seriously, nor are they required to do so by the university. Korean society is obsessed with the name of the school that you go to/ graduate from, hence why HS students go through such a rigourous competition. But once university starts, many students simply lose focus in their studies and their career goals. There was an article stating that while SK students have one of the highest acceptance rates into Harvard, they also have the highest drop out rates. Students are more interested in student hobby groups, nightlife, etc. instead of their academics. Honestly, the streets around universities in Seoul look like an entertainment district filled with restaurants, bars, etc. Grade inflation is ludicrous in Korea. I read a Korean article where more than 80% of grades awarded was above B or B+ (I will try to find an article alter). This is bizarre especially considering 80%(!!!) of HS graduates enroll in universities. In contrast, maybe ~40% of HS students in Canada enrol in univerity and the class average is set around C+/B-. There seems to be an understanding between universities and its students that once the students matriculate, they will be guaranteed a degree.
What I said above certainly doesn't apply to all universities in SK, but SK universities in general are a total fail.
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you know korean universities are bad when you look at how competitive korean students are in high school
korea has HEAPS of universities, but they all suck so bad in comparison to "SKY" that, the SKY universities become the main target for the whole student body. sure there are "middle class" unis such as ewha, foreign uni, sungkyunkwan etc etc but they pale in comparison to SKY, making SKY the only realistic choice for a university if people wish to "succeed"
and i can say from experience, korean universities, more specifically Korea university (one of SKY) is much more relaxed and easy than foreign unis such as USYD, UNSW etc
if koreas university standards reflected the high school standards...korea would be insane at academics
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Edit:holy shit i'm bad, wanted to post in the gsl aug lr.
Regarding this subject: 16 hours a day is way too much, while i have to agree china and korea deliver some of the most intelligent students that have a great work ethic. I think a medium should be reached between too much pressure and too little. You can't really judge another culture.
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16 Hours... waking up at 6:00 AM and studying solid to 10:00 PM?
WTF
But this is the reason Koreans are so good at StarCraft and the like, they are raised in a culture of working insanely hard.
Edit: reworded
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Isn't it a paradox that Korean high school kids spend all day studying yet there are many pro gamers that are high school aged? How exactly are Koreans so good at Starcraft if so many have strict parents and arduous school schedules that don't allow them to play video games? Doesn't add up.
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On September 09 2011 02:28 BlackJack wrote:
Isn't it a paradox that Korean high school kids spend all day studying yet there are many pro gamers that are high school aged? How exactly are Koreans so good at Starcraft if so many have strict parents and arduous school schedules that don't allow them to play video games? Doesn't add up.
It's called ignorance.
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On August 29 2011 10:52 RinesOnRx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 00:28 AsnSensation wrote:On August 28 2011 20:17 RinesOnRx wrote:
Granted, SK's HS system has certainly has its problems, but I disagree that American system is any better. At least SK has something to show for with their HS students placing second in academic abilities after Finland.
Although it sucks for South Korean students and their parents, education system that they have is necessary/ inevitable for SK to remain competetive globally. What SK lacks in natural resources, it has to make up through human resources. It's too bad that unlike their high schools, their universities are a total fail.
I am very much interested in seeing this documentary, but I don't know how the film will achieve its goal of alleviating stress for Korean HS students. Can you pls explain that a bit more, of course only if u don't mind because i' m really interested in this. + Show Spoiler +
I don't have much time right now so this post will be brief. I will supplement it with more information with data/ articles afterwards.
As posters mentioned above, Korean schools' rankings are mediocore at best. I think Seoul University is the only one that is in top 100, and Yonsei and Korea are in the top 200. This is dismal considering there are ~200 univeristies in Korean and its students are the ones who ranked second internationally in HS. However, this doesn't really bother me because universities' rankings are indicative of its research capabilities, which doesn't necessarily correlate with the quality of education received by its students.
What really bothers me about Korean university is that many students don't take their studies seriously, nor are they required to do so by the university. Korean society is obsessed with the name of the school that you go to/ graduate from, hence why HS students go through such a rigourous competition. But once university starts, many students simply lose focus in their studies and their career goals. There was an article stating that while SK students have one of the highest acceptance rates into Harvard, they also have the highest drop out rates. Students are more interested in student hobby groups, nightlife, etc. instead of their academics. Honestly, the streets around universities in Seoul look like an entertainment district filled with restaurants, bars, etc. Grade inflation is ludicrous in Korea. I read a Korean article where more than 80% of grades awarded was above B or B+ (I will try to find an article alter). This is bizarre especially considering 80%(!!!) of HS graduates enroll in universities. In contrast, maybe ~40% of HS students in Canada enrol in univerity and the class average is set around C+/B-. There seems to be an understanding between universities and its students that once the students matriculate, they will be guaranteed a degree.
What I said above certainly doesn't apply to all universities in SK, but SK universities in general are a total fail.
To add to what he said, University areas are awesome party places. It's like if you and your friends wanted to go clubbing and were like "Dude, lets go to Harvard."
On September 09 2011 02:28 BlackJack wrote:
Isn't it a paradox that Korean high school kids spend all day studying yet there are many pro gamers that are high school aged? How exactly are Koreans so good at Starcraft if so many have strict parents and arduous school schedules that don't allow them to play video games? Doesn't add up.
The whole of the high school/starcraft relationship is that no one considers it (as) abnormal to focus on a certain study/aspect for 12 hours a day. So when people in america (or sc2. Yes, I'm talking to you, I'm-going-pro-blog) decide to "take a year off and focus on trying to go pro", they practice like 6 hours a day, everyday. No weekends, no holidays, no breaks. And people are like, man that's dedication, he really loves that game. In Korea, until you hit double digit hours of effort put in, no one takes a second glance.
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On August 28 2011 14:59 Endymion wrote:
I barely pay attention in class at university, and I stand to inherit more assets than I could possibly need, while they study for so long in a super high competitive environment. At least I'll be at the top of the bubble when it bursts, and all the hard working asian students will get what they truly deserve.
What does this even mean? You apparently aren't doing too well in university. That, or your university is pretty bad.
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I now have insane respect for Polt. Total hero ^_^
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On August 28 2011 21:17 evilfatsh1t wrote:from a koreans point of view...im against the production of this video simply because itll inevitably show many bad things about korean society and its values but the truth is the truth and it has to be said T_T i just hope the director is as unbiased as possible and at least shows the good sides of korea too id have a lot more peace of mind if she was older/had more experience though Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 20:19 gullberg wrote:On August 28 2011 15:41 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:On August 28 2011 15:37 jidolboy wrote:On August 28 2011 15:32 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:On August 28 2011 15:28 jidolboy wrote:On August 28 2011 15:07 Xplitcit wrote:
This is probably why Korean are so good at starcraft. They play it with the same dedication as school. This is why you most Korean gamers have really bad grades in school, with the exception of OPTIMUS FUCKING PRIME. But yes, everything they do they put forward their effort and dedication. In America, you could be a good student and a progamer.... Too bad you suck compare to everyone else, but it's still acceptable. can u provide us the source where you claimed most of us korean are idiot? I don't think he was saying that most Koreans are idiots. I think he was saying that most Korean gamers don't do too well in school, probably because they don't care much about school. You are Korean... do you think this is true? Are great gamers bad in school? If it's anything like Japan they are. I'm sure that the Korean gamers are the really smart ones actually, but they just don't apply themselves in school. i meant to add gamers (oops) .i was bit ignorant and little bit pissed off how he posted shit without any proof Oh no, I think you just misunderstood. In Western countries we believe that a lot of very smart people get poor grades in school for other reasons, but in East Asia (where I've spent the last four years), I've noticed that people are considered stupid for having poor grades. We think that very very smart people tend to have poor grades because classes don't interest them and they don't study much. No "we" don't. I've never even heard of this, getting bad grades -> smart but lazy? That's like the #1 excuse someone will drop when getting a bad grade man :S some might call it an excuse, but it is the truth in many cases i have a friend who was a straight A student up till year 10 but dropped in years 11 and 12 because he got hooked on dance and dota by the end of yr 12 his average grades were C- because he just didnt give a shit about education and you may argue that in the earlier stages of highschool you dont have to be smart to get good grades, but believe me. this guy was smart
That is the worst excuse for not doing well in school. There are many pro-gamers that attend school and are good at games. Why can't he dance, play dota and do well in school? Most people that succeed, gamers, athletes, etc worked hard to get a good education and went for their dreams/passions at the same time. Saying that you don't give a shit about your education and because of that your grade suffers is retarded. I doubt that 99.999999999% people actually care about school and like doing stuff like hw, but they do it anyways. If you look at it, who's really smarter. The guy giving up school to play dota and dance, or the people working hard for an education and playing dota and dancing.
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University rankings is hardly indicative of quality of education. If anything, rankings are mostly for a school's prestige than anything else. Once you actually go to school it's more or less the same.
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I found it very disturbing that they glue their eyes to have non Asian eyelid creases. I hope that that isn't super common in Korea, it's too bad if they feel like they have to do that to be beautiful.
Now I can see why so many Korean men choose the life of a pro gamer over all of that, the dedication of being a pro gamer is actually easier at 12 hours a day instead of 16, haha
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EPT
