EPTOn November 29 2011 03:26 Pillage wrote:
Yeah it's gonna be tough for the people on the lower rungs of the ladder, but that's a whole new can of worms you just opened there. We will probably see an increase in a reliance on public transportation as a result, so cities should have plans in place to expand these departments appropriately.
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 03:20 Whitewing wrote:
No, you missed the point, which I didn't say plainly. It's not that I'm worried myself, I can afford a brief period of high costs. It's those people who are low income or below the poverty threshold that suffer really badly from things like this.
On November 29 2011 03:12 Pillage wrote:
You should also consider that when fossil fuels do hit that threshold of being "Too expensive" demand for other sources will skyrocket, and money will be made hand over fist on these new resources. The energy / transportation companies know this, and they will be in an appropriate position to provide these new goods (electric cars , etc) to a hungry consumer base. It essentially boils down to supply and demand, and the market never fails at conforming to that. I'm not worried at all when it comes to the fossil fuels. (I am however very, very annoyed at everyone's profound fear of nuclear power.) When the transition period comes, everything will be fine. The demand just hasn't reached that level yet for many people, as many people still have found ways to make things work around higher fuel costs.
TL;DR Be patient, It's not going to get as bad as you think it is.
On November 29 2011 02:44 Whitewing wrote:
The market is not going to do it themselves until it's pretty much really really late. In the free market, technology curves are 'S' shaped.
The market has begun, slowly, moving towards electric cars instead of gas cars. The problem is that there's very little demand for them, because there are no recharge stations where you can pull up, plug in, and recharge your batteries. There's no incentive for companies to start building recharge stations because there aren't enough electric cars out there for building them to be worthwhile. End result is a mexican standoff between companies and consumers that perpetuates gas usage. The infrastructure required won't be built until the cost of gasoline is absurdly high and people refuse to pay it anymore, but it'll start being built then and the people who relied on gas will suffer for a good long time while they wait for everything to be built.
Some things only a government can really do. It's what economics refers to as an externality, a benefit to society that will not be be provided by the free market. The question is when is it worth our time and money to have the government take care of the issue: is gas too expensive already? Should we wait a bit longer for it to become more expensive?
When gas becomes too expensive, power companies will move towards alternative power sources as well, like wind/solar/nuclear. The question is, do we wait for them to do it themselves and suffer absurd electricity costs, or do we let the government step in?
On November 28 2011 12:53 Pillage wrote:
I'd prefer to let the market do this itself. I don't really see the benefit of Cap and Trade schemes, all they seem to do is put companies in supreme positions over others. ( Think GE vs Exxon Mobil, Mining companies, etc). I fear how the market will retort should something like this go through. Lots of raw material corporations would suffer greatly.
I suppose what I was trying to get across was that everyone has an agenda, and that I pretty much take any news with a grain of salt these days, with the absurdly sensationalist American Media.
Edit: Grammar
Edit2: No one will get my joke >.< , so I removed it
This is a very reasonable approach however it is not what TheBomb has taken. The whole point of the Carbon tax is push for alternative fuel sources. Oil becomes more expensive so electricity generation will initially move from coal to gas not oil, so his point is irrelevant.
I'd prefer to let the market do this itself. I don't really see the benefit of Cap and Trade schemes, all they seem to do is put companies in supreme positions over others. ( Think GE vs Exxon Mobil, Mining companies, etc). I fear how the market will retort should something like this go through. Lots of raw material corporations would suffer greatly.
Yes scientists will benefit from global warming grants, but so do denialist scientists. Not from government funding but private. You could try and argue this is a sign that the government is pushing an agenda. To that I would say that in Australia around 10% of grant applications receive some level of approval. If you don't get a grant is probably because your research plan is simply not good enough.
I suppose what I was trying to get across was that everyone has an agenda, and that I pretty much take any news with a grain of salt these days, with the absurdly sensationalist American Media.
Edit: Grammar
Edit2: No one will get my joke >.< , so I removed it
The market is not going to do it themselves until it's pretty much really really late. In the free market, technology curves are 'S' shaped.
The market has begun, slowly, moving towards electric cars instead of gas cars. The problem is that there's very little demand for them, because there are no recharge stations where you can pull up, plug in, and recharge your batteries. There's no incentive for companies to start building recharge stations because there aren't enough electric cars out there for building them to be worthwhile. End result is a mexican standoff between companies and consumers that perpetuates gas usage. The infrastructure required won't be built until the cost of gasoline is absurdly high and people refuse to pay it anymore, but it'll start being built then and the people who relied on gas will suffer for a good long time while they wait for everything to be built.
Some things only a government can really do. It's what economics refers to as an externality, a benefit to society that will not be be provided by the free market. The question is when is it worth our time and money to have the government take care of the issue: is gas too expensive already? Should we wait a bit longer for it to become more expensive?
When gas becomes too expensive, power companies will move towards alternative power sources as well, like wind/solar/nuclear. The question is, do we wait for them to do it themselves and suffer absurd electricity costs, or do we let the government step in?
You should also consider that when fossil fuels do hit that threshold of being "Too expensive" demand for other sources will skyrocket, and money will be made hand over fist on these new resources. The energy / transportation companies know this, and they will be in an appropriate position to provide these new goods (electric cars , etc) to a hungry consumer base. It essentially boils down to supply and demand, and the market never fails at conforming to that. I'm not worried at all when it comes to the fossil fuels. (I am however very, very annoyed at everyone's profound fear of nuclear power.) When the transition period comes, everything will be fine. The demand just hasn't reached that level yet for many people, as many people still have found ways to make things work around higher fuel costs.
TL;DR Be patient, It's not going to get as bad as you think it is.
No, you missed the point, which I didn't say plainly. It's not that I'm worried myself, I can afford a brief period of high costs. It's those people who are low income or below the poverty threshold that suffer really badly from things like this.
Yeah it's gonna be tough for the people on the lower rungs of the ladder, but that's a whole new can of worms you just opened there. We will probably see an increase in a reliance on public transportation as a result, so cities should have plans in place to expand these departments appropriately.
yet all forms of public services are stealing ar money
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