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The way I view healthcare it should be you go to the doctor and you and him negotiate. That's how it used to be in America. Obv. the doctor isn't going to turn you away, even if you are poor (generally doctors are pretty compassionate people), and you pay what you can afford. Right now the is so much bureaucracy and regulation and tax, that everyone has to pay the maximum and it's a very inefficient system. It worked fine until government decided it would "fix healthcare" and now you have the mess you see today.
Yes because when i go to an hospital i only meet a doctor. Healthcare is not what it was 200 years ago.
Also do you want to go to a policemen and ask his price? Or a judge? Or any specialist with out proper regulation?
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On July 28 2011 10:19 BestZergOnEast wrote:Well here in a first world nation people routinely wait 3+ months to see specialists. You guys probably just don't even have those specialists, or equipment. If you think Argentina has a better health care system than America, I want what you are smoking. Since the days of Aristotle, men have noticed that private property is superior to communally owned property. My evidence is the economic history of the world. Every socialist nation has failed - usually with brutal slave labour camps and autocratic tyrants. Every time laissez-faire capitalism has been attempted there has been prosperity and wealth created.
Lol. Etnocentrism at it's finest.
I basically inform myself where is the doctor I need to visit and ask for an appointment. And I pay from 10 to 30 pesos a visit. We have a current problem with our healthcare service, but we are trying to make it better by using the funds better. Loads of americans are coming over for medical services :3 .
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Yeah, because there's no such thing as a doctor's office outside of a hospital.
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That's fine but I don't live in some shitty third world country. The mechanisms are a little more complicated when you actually have to heal people
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I look and China and a beg to differ.
Right... china, that epic socialist win.
http://mises.org/daily/2652
How many died as a result of persecutions and the policies of Mao? Perhaps you care to guess? Many people over the years have attempted to guess. But they have always underestimated. As more data rolled in during the 1980s and 1990s, and specialists have devoted themselves to investigations and estimates, the figures have become ever more reliable. And yet they remain imprecise. What kind of error term are we talking about? It could be as low as 40 million. It could be as high as 100 million or more. In the Great Leap Forward from 1959 to 1961 alone, figures range between 20 million to 75 million. In the period before, 20 million. In the period after, tens of millions more.
Is that what you would do to my country?
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Yes, there are a lot of private offices. My main doctor owns his fucking clinic. Stop making Americans look like shit :/
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Yeah, because there's no such thing as a doctor's office outside of a hospital.
Yup he also does surgery, RX, blood analysis and all other things I do not know alone. He also caries you to the bathroom at night when your ill and caries you to the hospital after a car accident.
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Oh sorry about that  .
I apologize to Americans for confusing Americans with your kind.
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Is that what you would do to my country?
No Canada is just fine.. but USA did bomb with 2 nuclear weapons for there freedom, they never killed anyone.
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On July 28 2011 10:12 BestZergOnEast wrote:Actually, these are the systems that most desperately need to be de-socialized. These services are far too vital to be left in the hands of government.
That only really works when there are the people an the infrastructure to support them, even getting rid of such vital systems would require a slow and meaningful transition process that would be overtaxing in itself.
PLUS the US is so fuckin' huge that at least a couple tens of thousands of people will fall through the cracks simply because of where they live.
Pure capitalism might be effective in theory but it is needlessly brutal in practice. The government CAN efficiently run many vital programs, there simply has to be much more internal emphasis and harsher/existent punishment.
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That's fine but I don't live in some shitty third world country. The mechanisms are a little more complicated when you actually have to heal people
Argentina live expectency is around 76, not for from the 78 of US and 81 from Canada..
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On July 28 2011 10:32 chickenhawk wrote:No Canada is just fine.. but USA did bomb with 2 nuclear weapons for there freedom, they never killed anyone.
HEY! We committed GENOCIDE of Native Americans for our freedoms, how dare you ignore the efforts of thousands of American colonists, forcing marches, killing women and children, and shoving the indigenous peoples into smaller and smaller parts of the country. I swear you people need to give us Americans credit for the full breadth of atrocities we have committed.
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On July 28 2011 10:14 ilovelings wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 10:08 BestZergOnEast wrote:
Universal health care isn't so great if it means the government has to ration it and you have really bad wait times. When Canadian politicians get sick, they fly to America for treatment. I live in a 3rd world country (im implying my country is seriously missmanaged) with universal healthcare and I have never had to wait for ANY healthcare lol. Srsly, If my country filled with corrupt politicians (this is fact) can manage to provide decent healthcare for it's citizens, why cant the US of A do it.
Because when you get cancer they tell you oh well, you can roll over and die because we won't spend 200,000 dollars of care into your throat not including the fact that we don't have the equipment or expertise to get such care....
The United States HAS a decent system, NOBODY can be denied service at a hospital... it's simply the fact that the system has ugly loopholes... but not nearly as ugly as they could be.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 28 2011 10:29 BestZergOnEast wrote:Right... china, that epic socialist win. http://mises.org/daily/2652How many died as a result of persecutions and the policies of Mao? Perhaps you care to guess? Many people over the years have attempted to guess. But they have always underestimated. As more data rolled in during the 1980s and 1990s, and specialists have devoted themselves to investigations and estimates, the figures have become ever more reliable. And yet they remain imprecise. What kind of error term are we talking about? It could be as low as 40 million. It could be as high as 100 million or more. In the Great Leap Forward from 1959 to 1961 alone, figures range between 20 million to 75 million. In the period before, 20 million. In the period after, tens of millions more. Is that what you would do to my country?
I find it ironic you bring up the morality angle when unregulated capitalism has issues with it as well.
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On July 28 2011 10:34 chickenhawk wrote:Show nested quote +That's fine but I don't live in some shitty third world country. The mechanisms are a little more complicated when you actually have to heal people Argentina live expectency is around 76, not for from the 78 of US and 81 from Canada..
Don't listen to him, he's been posting nothing but stupid shit and has no decent knowledge of history. People need to stop responding to his posts-he's clearly trolling(or one of the most ignorant people I've ever seen on this website) and it's derailing this thread from the topic at hand (the US Debt)
so can the debate over the US debt please continue? thanks. This isn't a "debate libertarian ideas thread", this is a discussion about the US Debt.
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On July 28 2011 10:15 ilovelings wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 10:12 BestZergOnEast wrote: but cutting vital systems is almost never a good idea. Actually, these are the systems that most desperately need to be de-socialized. These services are far too vital to be left in the hands of government. Sir in my country the state desocialized the services and they went from bad to even worse. Do you have actual fact to support this claims? They got so bad they had to be RESOCIALIZED. Don't you lecture me on free market, because we experienced it during an entire decade and it went horribad in 2001.
This often happens when inepts attempt to usurp power and money via power vacuums, the purely capitalist side of the argument is that eventually things will get better because the will of the people and their money simply works that way... which it does... it just takes heartbreaking time... and luck.
Which is why I can never be a pure capitalist, it's too impersonal and "efficient" in it's neglect of those who are at the bottom of the food chain.
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My problem with Healthcare in the US (I worked for Anthem when I was living there) is that if you are poor, you are gonna get charged for it. I remember this guy losing his house because he had cancer.
That's a big nono to me  , I felt disgusted and quited shortly after that.
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Because when you get cancer they tell you oh well, you can roll over and die because we won't spend 200,000 dollars of care into your throat not including the fact that we don't have the equipment or expertise to get such care....
Has I said above, the live expectancy of Argentina is less two yeas than of USA, they do not have people dying there like mosquitoes. So your line of thought is invalid. Beside USA life expectancy is in 36 place, tied with Cuba and Denmark and above Portugal by 0.2 years.
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I find it ironic you bring up the morality angle when unregulated capitalism has issues with it as well.
Perhaps you could show an example of unregulated capitalism slaughtering tens of millions of innocent people.
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EPT
