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On May 27 2011 16:42 Heavenly wrote:
Whether he is legally correct or not, the response of this supposedly Christian community is pathetic. The threat of violence and casting your own child out into the streets without any money? These are the kind of people who were born into religion and follow it because of the happy little feeling they get in their chest when they say they believe in Jesus, but when it comes down to living the way a good Christian should they instead choose to act like little shits. To me this isn't even an atheism versus religion, church versus state, or anything argument, the real shock of this entire thing centers around the ridiculous ostracization that the student has received for his beliefs from hypocritical fundamentalists---in essence, how pathetic that entire community is.
Yeah, it's kinda funny how christlike the community acted. Dont remember any bible passages going "if someone pisses you off, kick him in the nuts".
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Sweden33723 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:53 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +As long as he wasnt forced to pray himself I just dont see the problem... If he was forced to pray, certainly I would say that frees him of all the above considerations as thats retarded and they can go fuck themselves if they think thats some bullshit they can swing. Thats not it at all. He was forced to listen to prayer funded by the government. The american law clearly makes this illegal.
Yes, but its also pretty damn harmless... I dont care so much whether its legal or illegal when in this particular instance. I think enduring the 2 minute discomfort or whatever would have been significantly more noble than ruining the experience for the rest of his class.
Ugh, maybe this is because you guys live in a society where religious people are in the majority but I have such a hard time seeing this -___- When I was like 15 or something I would have probably found it hilarious to raise shit about this, but I just dont see why its worth caring about... They believe in God, so they pray to him - I DONT believe in God so I therefore shouldnt give a shit, which I dont....
Ant it feels like that you have never lived in a society where religion has gone ape shit and the law has dropped any protection against the encroachment of religion into public policy. [/QUOTE]
Obviously I have not, which is why I brought it up in the first place - to point out how hard it is for me to relate to this, didnt mean it as 'oh you backwards people' :p
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On May 27 2011 16:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 15:13 Zzoram wrote:On May 27 2011 15:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On May 27 2011 15:09 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 27 2011 15:09 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I don't believe his actions are altruistic at all
would the prayer have hurt anyone? no
he should have just let it be as a matter of respecting a community tradition illegal community tradiction* sure it's a crime, but it's a victimless crimeif there was a law against scratching your head with both hands at the same time and I saw someone do it, I wouldn't report it or care at all it's illegal, therefore it is wrong, right? oh wait But it's not. It's alienating the non-Christians by making them feel like they don't belong at their own graduation. Ugh, maybe this is because you guys live in a society where religious people are in the majority but I have such a hard time seeing this -___- When I was like 15 or something I would have probably found it hilarious to raise shit about this, but I just dont see why its worth caring about... They believe in God, so they pray to him - I DONT believe in God so I therefore shouldnt give a shit, which I dont.... It just feels like trying to deny them their prayer shouldnt matter unless you take atheism to an almost dogmatic level, and feels very insecure, which I guess is more likely being such an extreme minority... Im curious tho, if they had been doing something more popular - but still illegal, like smoked pot or participated in some communal filesharing, and he ratted them out would that still be noble? As long as he wasnt forced to pray himself I just dont see the problem... If he was forced to pray, certainly I would say that frees him of all the above considerations as thats retarded and they can go fuck themselves if they think thats some bullshit they can swing. EDIT: One thing I want to make very clear tho is that I in absolutely NO way think what happened to him as a result of what he did was a deserved or measured response... So obviously if we had to a 'whose more at fault here?' poll, it would be 'them' by a landslide.
It's really just the principle of the thing. The school itself should not be endorsing a specific religion.
On May 27 2011 16:58 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:53 redviper wrote:As long as he wasnt forced to pray himself I just dont see the problem... If he was forced to pray, certainly I would say that frees him of all the above considerations as thats retarded and they can go fuck themselves if they think thats some bullshit they can swing. Thats not it at all. He was forced to listen to prayer funded by the government. The american law clearly makes this illegal. Yes, but its also pretty damn harmless... I dont care so much whether its legal or illegal when in this particular instance. I think enduring the 2 minute discomfort or whatever would have been significantly more noble than ruining the experience for the rest of his class.
I don't think it's harmless. it sets precedent, which unless broken, is never-ending. separation of church and state is important... I don't want any religion to be endorsed by my government, do you?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
I hope he seeks legal action/advice to sue the school, on 2 grounds, 1 being that there is public praying going on in a public school, forbidden in US public schools. Secondly the fact his name was "leaked" is breaking data protection laws for the fact that you always can speak up privately like he did, he didnt put up posters saying this, that or the other, he privately rang the super intendent and told him and got it canceled that way.
And lets throw in to the debate, if there were any other religions in that school be it Muslims/Jews/Sikh's i wonder if they would of mentioned anything?
In my opinion that school should be changed to a christian school to save any problem, makes sense?
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On May 27 2011 16:54 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:32 redviper wrote:On May 27 2011 16:25 Murderotica wrote:On May 27 2011 16:10 redviper wrote:On May 27 2011 13:47 Torte de Lini wrote:
I think knowing his situation, he should have just obliged and pretended to pray. It's fine that he's standing up for his rights, but as you can see, he didn't gain as much as he lost especially if he knew (and he most likely did) that the surrounding community around him as well as the governing body, were heavily christian.
It's just a bad move on his part, he should have considered more than his individual rights that don't necessarily hurt or affect him to the extent or degree he is in now. The same argument can be applied to any violation of human rights and civil liberties. Just shut up and let the police search your home without a warrant. Just shut up and let the feds tap your phone and put spy ware on your computer. Infact I could probably go through the entire BoR and find excuses for violation in order to have a more harmonious society. While your post is certainly true in that it would create a more harmonious society, you made a mountain out of a molehill. It's one prayer at a graduation. The US is not going to flip a shit and be like "WELL GUESS WHAT BITCHES, WE CONTROL YOU NOW," after this decision and start doing anything of what you listed, nor will it in the foreseeable hundred years at least. We will never be North Korea of the first world. This is one court room decision which does not affect much of anything in the slightest. The Christians might lose a bit of ground in the South, but it's so significant that they started a fucking hunt on this kid. Atheists might not have to sit at so many boring religion things in the South, which they (mostly) chose for themselves and their kids to live in, one generation after the next. No big deal. It doesn't say in the article if it was the majority of the community, though. Teacher is terrible but at some point you have to realize that teachers are employees that CAN flip a shit and do crazy stuff - nothing was mentioned of any consequences to his actions, but that doesn't mean that there aren't or aren't going to be any). Getting death threats and etc. happen for smaller and bigger things all over the country. This is not a revolution or an oppression in the making. I am sure the North Koreans didn't think that they would be the north koreans of the world either. Apathy to your own rights is a good way to end up like, lets say Iran. If something is against the law and is offensive to you then why shouldn't you stand up and speak against it. The reaction of the community is an oppression in itself, the actions of the school are defacto endorsements by the government of this oppression. No one here can say that the school wasn't violating the law of the land. And also I have no idea what you mean by " Atheists might not have to sit at so many boring religion things in the South, which they (mostly) chose for themselves and their kids to live in, one generation after the next. No big deal." You want them to leave the south? My point is, now that this has happened, will the decision affect whether you live in this country or not? Because if you say no, that means you don't care enough. And what that means is that probably the majority of people don't care enough. These are extremists that have been cited to have caused this, even if it is a prevalent pattern in the South. But I doubt even these extremists will cause an uproar if they lose this. This shit is inconsequential on the grand scale of things. We do not need to be picking pennies about our rights in this way. Gay people wanting to get married and not being allowed to is more reprehensible than someone having to sit through people chanting shit and speaking up about it which they do every day with the Pledge of Allegiance anyway, and both have close to zero future consequences to us as a majority. I might not have had to say the "Pledge of Allegiance" every morning? That's okay, don't give a shit in retrospect because I said it with no actual meaning to myself behind it, and when I actually started constructively thinking about it I was old enough to make my own decision and just stop saying it in schools. He could have done the same. This is not a real consequence to us, and it's not going to have further legal repercussions of any magnitude between church and state. It'd just sticking to what we've already had, more or less. Only the extremists will be pissed on either side of this issue and actually do anything about it.
I will try to parse that giant wall of text but I think you are misrepresenting the situation. The law is with the student. The community is not. As a result I have no respect for the community and I have respect for the law.
It is not well known but you can safely ignore the pledge of allegience. The only time you have to recite is when you naturalize and even then you are allowed to drop the "under god" part.
The same community (and same brand of people) who strongly support prayer in schools oppose gay marriage, gays attending prom, muslims building mosques, sex education, abortion etc.
I am glad he didn't just stay quiet and take it. He suffered for his belief in the law but I hope it will give impetus to other students in other parts of the country to stand up and protest.
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On May 27 2011 16:58 Eatme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:42 Heavenly wrote:
Whether he is legally correct or not, the response of this supposedly Christian community is pathetic. The threat of violence and casting your own child out into the streets without any money? These are the kind of people who were born into religion and follow it because of the happy little feeling they get in their chest when they say they believe in Jesus, but when it comes down to living the way a good Christian should they instead choose to act like little shits. To me this isn't even an atheism versus religion, church versus state, or anything argument, the real shock of this entire thing centers around the ridiculous ostracization that the student has received for his beliefs from hypocritical fundamentalists---in essence, how pathetic that entire community is. Yeah, it's kinda funny how christlike the community acted. Dont remember any bible passages going "if someone pisses you off, kick him in the nuts".
Read a bit more of the Bible^^
Just skip Leviticus. Damn sheep slaughter display patterns are boring. Who cares about draperies?
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On May 27 2011 16:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 15:13 Zzoram wrote:On May 27 2011 15:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On May 27 2011 15:09 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 27 2011 15:09 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I don't believe his actions are altruistic at all
would the prayer have hurt anyone? no
he should have just let it be as a matter of respecting a community tradition illegal community tradiction* sure it's a crime, but it's a victimless crimeif there was a law against scratching your head with both hands at the same time and I saw someone do it, I wouldn't report it or care at all it's illegal, therefore it is wrong, right? oh wait But it's not. It's alienating the non-Christians by making them feel like they don't belong at their own graduation. Ugh, maybe this is because you guys live in a society where religious people are in the majority but I have such a hard time seeing this -___- When I was like 15 or something I would have probably found it hilarious to raise shit about this, but I just dont see why its worth caring about... They believe in God, so they pray to him - I DONT believe in God so I therefore shouldnt give a shit, which I dont.... It just feels like trying to deny them their prayer shouldnt matter unless you take atheism to an almost dogmatic level, and feels very insecure, which I guess is more likely being such an extreme minority... Im curious tho, if they had been doing something more popular - but still illegal, like smoked pot or participated in some communal filesharing, and he ratted them out would that still be noble? As long as he wasnt forced to pray himself I just dont see the problem... If he was forced to pray, certainly I would say that frees him of all the above considerations as thats retarded and they can go fuck themselves if they think thats some bullshit they can swing.
It's interesting to compare this to Sweden though. I had this discussion with my American English teacher and here in Sweden we are actually doing something beyond this which in his American perspective would be unacceptable in an American school, the students go to church to celebrate the end of the school year. In June everywhere around in Sweden (not at all schools but it is a strong tradition) schools take all their students to church where we sing together, reflect on the year and listen to the priest hold a speech and give his blessing to all the pupils. So the question is, should we remove this tradition because it comes from a time heavily inspired by Christianity just like I guess that prayer at graduation was? Personally I would say no, BUT everyone must be given a choice not to participate.
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On the ' atheism is the perfect solution/ is evil' debate:
The one thing any genuine religion provides are values, morals, ethics or whatever you like to call them. Atheism and Agnosticism do not that necessarily. These values do benefit the chances of survival of a society as people rather tend to step down a notch and help each than running other anyone their way to pursue their own goals.
This of course is only a problem if you care about raising standards of living for everyone and the survival of mankind on the long run. The latter is - as you might know - not guaranteed as we actually have the power to erase ourselves and are stupid enough to do so.
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On May 27 2011 16:59 travis wrote:
It's really just the principle of the thing. The school itself should not be endorsing a specific religion.
This. Imagine now the same thing with Islamic prayers in an american public school. Oh the shitstorm it would be, you might argue that christianity is the dominant religion in USA so that this is not revelant but a public school is not a place to promote a religion, any it may be.
Edit : quote
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On May 27 2011 16:50 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:46 eluv wrote:On May 27 2011 16:39 redviper wrote:On May 27 2011 16:36 eluv wrote:
It's obviously (I hope) clear that what he did was strictly legal. And it's kind of cool that he confronted an illegal practice, regardless of his motivations or what those around him thought.
The moral question though is a whole bucket of worms that I don't foresee bringing a whole lot of productive discussion. In the US it's certainly illegal to lead a prayer as a state sponsored employee at a state sponsored event, but whether or not it's moral to do so when the crowd is overwhelmingly of the same faith is and interesting question. I think this would be a very different situation if say, half the school was Jewish.
Regardless, it's pretty gross to say the kid had it coming. When we live in a world where demanding your legal rights causes your parents to disown you and your community to physically threaten and bully you, we've thrown those rights out the window, no matter how "insignificant" any particular exercise of those rights seems. It is morally wrong if a single student wasn't a christian. Clearly this is the case, hence it was clearly morally wrong. You're right. Discussion over. If only morality was always this simple! Frotunately for us morality is almost always this simple. If you are breaking the law and offending someone together, it is morally wrong. If you are only offending someone while preserving the law, it is morally right.
Morality and law are definitely not always the same thing. There are undoubtedly things which are legal and immoral, and other things which are moral and illegal. Lying, in many situations, clearly immoral, definitely not illegal. Death penalty, war, cruelty to animals in farms, all candidates for things which are legal and quite possibly immoral.
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On May 27 2011 16:58 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:53 redviper wrote:As long as he wasnt forced to pray himself I just dont see the problem... If he was forced to pray, certainly I would say that frees him of all the above considerations as thats retarded and they can go fuck themselves if they think thats some bullshit they can swing. Thats not it at all. He was forced to listen to prayer funded by the government. The american law clearly makes this illegal. Yes, but its also pretty damn harmless... I dont care so much whether its legal or illegal when in this particular instance. I think enduring the 2 minute discomfort or whatever would have been significantly more noble than ruining the experience for the rest of his class. Show nested quote +
Ugh, maybe this is because you guys live in a society where religious people are in the majority but I have such a hard time seeing this -___- When I was like 15 or something I would have probably found it hilarious to raise shit about this, but I just dont see why its worth caring about... They believe in God, so they pray to him - I DONT believe in God so I therefore shouldnt give a shit, which I dont....
Ant it feels like that you have never lived in a society where religion has gone ape shit and the law has dropped any protection against the encroachment of religion into public policy.
Obviously I have not, which is why I brought it up in the first place - to point out how hard it is for me to relate to this, didnt mean it as 'oh you backwards people' :p
[/QUOTE]
the problem is that if you don't do anything, then it'll set a precedent. Once that has been established, at what point do you draw the line? When will it go from harmless to harmful? This is the reason people are pushing the fact that because it is a violation of the constitution, then you should not be lenient about it. Whether or not he's raining on the majority's parade is irrelevant.
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On May 27 2011 16:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 15:13 Zzoram wrote:On May 27 2011 15:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On May 27 2011 15:09 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 27 2011 15:09 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I don't believe his actions are altruistic at all
would the prayer have hurt anyone? no
he should have just let it be as a matter of respecting a community tradition illegal community tradiction* sure it's a crime, but it's a victimless crimeif there was a law against scratching your head with both hands at the same time and I saw someone do it, I wouldn't report it or care at all it's illegal, therefore it is wrong, right? oh wait But it's not. It's alienating the non-Christians by making them feel like they don't belong at their own graduation. Ugh, maybe this is because you guys live in a society where religious people are in the majority but I have such a hard time seeing this -___- When I was like 15 or something I would have probably found it hilarious to raise shit about this, but I just dont see why its worth caring about... They believe in God, so they pray to him - I DONT believe in God so I therefore shouldnt give a shit, which I dont.... It just feels like trying to deny them their prayer shouldnt matter unless you take atheism to an almost dogmatic level, and feels very insecure, which I guess is more likely being such an extreme minority...
The reason he's insecure should be pretty obvious, considering his community's explosive intolerance for atheism.
If they'd been like, "We really wanted to pray together as an official part of graduation, but we respect your wishes and the law; go in peace, brother," he would've looked like a jerk. Instead, they proved his point. In spades.
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On May 27 2011 16:58 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:53 redviper wrote:As long as he wasnt forced to pray himself I just dont see the problem... If he was forced to pray, certainly I would say that frees him of all the above considerations as thats retarded and they can go fuck themselves if they think thats some bullshit they can swing. Thats not it at all. He was forced to listen to prayer funded by the government. The american law clearly makes this illegal. Yes, but its also pretty damn harmless... I dont care so much whether its legal or illegal when in this particular instance. I think enduring the 2 minute discomfort or whatever would have been significantly more noble than ruining the experience for the rest of his class. Show nested quote +
Ugh, maybe this is because you guys live in a society where religious people are in the majority but I have such a hard time seeing this -___- When I was like 15 or something I would have probably found it hilarious to raise shit about this, but I just dont see why its worth caring about... They believe in God, so they pray to him - I DONT believe in God so I therefore shouldnt give a shit, which I dont....
Ant it feels like that you have never lived in a society where religion has gone ape shit and the law has dropped any protection against the encroachment of religion into public policy. Obviously I have not, which is why I brought it up in the first place - to point out how hard it is for me to relate to this, didnt mean it as 'oh you backwards people' :p
I am not making an appeal to authority. Rather I am pointing out that ignoring violations of liberties and the principles that provide freedom from religion end up in societies where religion does go ape shit.
The harm isn't that he would be scared for life if he listened to prayer. The harm is that it infringes on the first enumerated right in the american constitution.
Like I said before there is no harm in letting the police search your car during a traffic stop without cause. But it is a violation of your freedom. This is the same situtation.
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On May 27 2011 17:01 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:59 travis wrote:
It's really just the principle of the thing. The school itself should not be endorsing a specific religion. This. Imagine now the same thing with Islamic prayers in an american public school. Oh the shitstorm it would be, you might argue that christianity is the dominant religion in USA so that this is not revelant but a public school is not a place to promote a religion, any it may be. Edit : quote
The ACLU sued a Islamic charter school where the kids had to do ritual washings, prayers, and koran study. These Islamic charter schools are springing up everywhere. Did you hear the shitstorm?
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On May 27 2011 17:05 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:58 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On May 27 2011 16:53 redviper wrote:As long as he wasnt forced to pray himself I just dont see the problem... If he was forced to pray, certainly I would say that frees him of all the above considerations as thats retarded and they can go fuck themselves if they think thats some bullshit they can swing. Thats not it at all. He was forced to listen to prayer funded by the government. The american law clearly makes this illegal. Yes, but its also pretty damn harmless... I dont care so much whether its legal or illegal when in this particular instance. I think enduring the 2 minute discomfort or whatever would have been significantly more noble than ruining the experience for the rest of his class.
Ugh, maybe this is because you guys live in a society where religious people are in the majority but I have such a hard time seeing this -___- When I was like 15 or something I would have probably found it hilarious to raise shit about this, but I just dont see why its worth caring about... They believe in God, so they pray to him - I DONT believe in God so I therefore shouldnt give a shit, which I dont....
Ant it feels like that you have never lived in a society where religion has gone ape shit and the law has dropped any protection against the encroachment of religion into public policy. Obviously I have not, which is why I brought it up in the first place - to point out how hard it is for me to relate to this, didnt mean it as 'oh you backwards people' :p I am not making an appeal to authority. Rather I am pointing out that ignoring violations of liberties and the principles that provide freedom from religion end up in societies where religion does go ape shit. The harm isn't that he would be scared for life if he listened to prayer. The harm is that it infringes on the first enumerated right in the american constitution. Like I said before there is no harm in letting the police search your car during a traffic stop without cause. But it is a violation of your freedom. This is the same situtation.
but I don't think it is a violation of freedom to be forced to listen to someone say something I don't believe for 2 minutes
whereas, letting a police search your car at a traffic stop actually is harmful because it infringes on your privacy
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Fuck. I'm so sad when I see religion as an excuse to harm and threaten, it's supposed to help and support people in need. Wealthy people with medieval looks on religion... makes me scared.
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To be honest, you just have to look at...well, the South...to see what happens when government and religion mix. It's not pretty.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On May 27 2011 17:07 atheistaphobe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 17:01 NeonFox wrote:On May 27 2011 16:59 travis wrote:
It's really just the principle of the thing. The school itself should not be endorsing a specific religion. This. Imagine now the same thing with Islamic prayers in an american public school. Oh the shitstorm it would be, you might argue that christianity is the dominant religion in USA so that this is not revelant but a public school is not a place to promote a religion, any it may be. Edit : quote The ACLU sued a Islamic charter school where the kids had to do ritual washings, prayers, and koran study. These Islamic charter schools are springing up everywhere. Did you hear the shitstorm?
So if that is the case about the isalmic schools, then i beleive that this is no different in regards to breaking a law which is obviously enforces. If it fails to act upon this case (all be it they know about it) then it should be deemed racist, on the count that it shuts down islamic prayers but fails to stop public christian prayers, all be it tradition or not.
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On May 27 2011 16:58 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:53 redviper wrote:As long as he wasnt forced to pray himself I just dont see the problem... If he was forced to pray, certainly I would say that frees him of all the above considerations as thats retarded and they can go fuck themselves if they think thats some bullshit they can swing. Thats not it at all. He was forced to listen to prayer funded by the government. The american law clearly makes this illegal. Yes, but its also pretty damn harmless... I dont care so much whether its legal or illegal when in this particular instance. I think enduring the 2 minute discomfort or whatever would have been significantly more noble than ruining the experience for the rest of his class. So you think government promoting religion is bad. But government promoting.... just a *little* religion is ok?
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On May 27 2011 17:01 NotSupporting wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 16:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On May 27 2011 15:13 Zzoram wrote:On May 27 2011 15:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On May 27 2011 15:09 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 27 2011 15:09 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I don't believe his actions are altruistic at all
would the prayer have hurt anyone? no
he should have just let it be as a matter of respecting a community tradition illegal community tradiction* sure it's a crime, but it's a victimless crimeif there was a law against scratching your head with both hands at the same time and I saw someone do it, I wouldn't report it or care at all it's illegal, therefore it is wrong, right? oh wait But it's not. It's alienating the non-Christians by making them feel like they don't belong at their own graduation. Ugh, maybe this is because you guys live in a society where religious people are in the majority but I have such a hard time seeing this -___- When I was like 15 or something I would have probably found it hilarious to raise shit about this, but I just dont see why its worth caring about... They believe in God, so they pray to him - I DONT believe in God so I therefore shouldnt give a shit, which I dont.... It just feels like trying to deny them their prayer shouldnt matter unless you take atheism to an almost dogmatic level, and feels very insecure, which I guess is more likely being such an extreme minority... Im curious tho, if they had been doing something more popular - but still illegal, like smoked pot or participated in some communal filesharing, and he ratted them out would that still be noble? As long as he wasnt forced to pray himself I just dont see the problem... If he was forced to pray, certainly I would say that frees him of all the above considerations as thats retarded and they can go fuck themselves if they think thats some bullshit they can swing. It's interesting to compare this to Sweden though. I had this discussion with my American English teacher and here in Sweden we are actually doing something beyond this which in his American perspective would be unacceptable in an American school, the students go to church to celebrate the end of the school year. In June everywhere around in Sweden (not at all schools but it is a strong tradition) schools take all their students to church where we sing together, reflect on the year and listen to the priest hold a speech and give his blessing to all the pupils. So the question is, should we remove this tradition because it comes from a time heavily inspired by Christianity just like I guess that prayer at graduation was? Personally I would say no, BUT everyone must be given a choice not to participate.
I don't know the swedish law over this but I think its not explicitly illegal is it? Most (some?) countries in europe fund (through some sort of taxes) restoration and maintainence of churches so I doubt this would be a gross violation.
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