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Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 373

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Please guys, stay on topic.

This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-14 12:18:45
September 14 2016 11:46 GMT
#7441
Well to be fair, if the civilains were slaughtered it would already have been too late to intervene, and there was a UN mandate (including from China and Russia who normally tries to block these sort of things) to protect civilians, but yeah the aftermath of the Libyan intervention wasn't exactly Britian's proudest moment. If I remember, at the time, political and popular will was all rather subdued, with the general feeling that "we" should be doing something, but unwilling to actually put boots and military force on the ground.

Anyways, about Syria I pleasantly suprised that I am wrong and that the ceasefire has been upheld. Next step, aid convoys to Aleppo. Hopefuly.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-15 17:16:31
September 15 2016 17:13 GMT
#7442
link with updates on the deal http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_SYRIA_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-09-15-12-12-26
BEIRUT (AP) -- The Latest on developments in Syria, where a cease-fire brokered by the U.S. and Russia has been holding since coming into effect earlier this week (all times local):

7:05 p.m.

Russia wants the U.N. Security Council to endorse the Syrian cease-fire agreement that it brokered together with the United States.

The truce went into effect earlier this week in Syria and has been mostly holding across the war-torn country despite minor violations.

Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said on Thursday that he hopes the Security Council will adopt a resolution endorsing the agreement at next week's high-level General Assembly meeting, which draws leaders from around the globe.

Churkin says: "I think we need to adopt it on the 21st" - a reference to Wednesday's summit level Security Council meeting on Syria.

The cease-fire is intended to help set the state for peace talks to end Syria's civil war, now in its sixth year. Several previous negotiated cease-fires have unraveled and efforts to hold the peace talks have stalled.

--- 6:05 p.m. The Russian military says the Syrian government forces have pulled back from a key highway to the besieged city of Aleppo to allow for aid deliveries but that the opposition fighters have failed to do the same.

Lt. Gen. Vladimir Savchenko, the head of the Russian Reconciliation Center, said the Syrian army withdrew its armor, artillery and other weapons north of the Castello road early on Thursday, in line with the U.S.-Russia-brokered cease-fire.

He says that under the deal, opposition units were supposed to move away in lockstep but have failed to do so.

Savchenko asked Moscow for permission to reverse the pullback if the rebels fail to comply. He was ordered to quickly report the rebels' violation of the deal to the U.S. military.
meanwhile, France and Russia are asking for the details of the peace deal to be made public.

could be Syria related(my pov., parties are starting to get payed, assured/reassured)- https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/israel-us-sign-massive-military-aid-package-in-low-key-ceremony-at-the-state-department/2016/09/14/23035db6-7abd-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html?tid=sm_tw
The United States signed an unprecedented pact with Israel that will provide the Jewish state with the largest amount of military aid ever awarded, $38 billion over 10 years, with promises of the latest in fighter jets, missile defense systems and cutting-edge technology.

The signing did not take place between President Obama and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu — or their defense secretaries — but occurred in a quiet ceremony on a top floor of the State Department, and neither of the men who signed the pact was a household name.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10139 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-17 22:05:05
September 17 2016 21:20 GMT
#7443
Syria says U.S.-led jets hit its troops, dozens reported killed

U.S.-led coalition forces bombed Syrian troops near Deir al-Zor airport on Saturday, the Syrian army said, allowing Islamic State fighters to briefly overrun their position and putting new strains on a ceasefire in effect elsewhere in the country.

The United States military said it had ceased air strikes against what it had believed to be Islamic State positions after Russia informed it that Syrian military personnel and vehicles may have been hit.
Saturday's air strikes were reported by Russia and a war monitor to have killed dozens of Syrian soldiers, and were said by Moscow to be evidence of what it called Washington's "stubborn refusal" to coordinate strikes with Damascus.

Islamic State said via its Amaq news channel it had taken complete control of Jebel Tharda, where the bombed position was located, which would have allowed it to overlook government-held areas of Deir al-Zor.

The city's airport and some districts have been entirely surrounded by Islamic State since last year, with the airport providing their only external access.

However, Russia said the Syrian army later recaptured positions it lost.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-idUSKCN11N062
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 17 2016 22:04 GMT
#7444
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-17 22:33:25
September 17 2016 22:12 GMT
#7445
Developments Sept. 17



1-Following coalition strike, nearly 300,000 citizens in Deir al Zor are now at risk from #ISIL unless something changes immediately.

2- Thardar mountain top was only strategic location that enabled Sy Army to protect the city of Deir al Zor. It is now firmly in #ISIL hands

3- Following the coalition strike, it only took #ISIL one hour to cross the river and take over #SyrianArmy position.

4- After years of efforts to protect Deir al Zor, a coalition strike on #SyrianArmy position on Thardar has handed #ISIL a huge prize

5- #SyrianArmy held this position for years. If this was indeed a mistake, who is going to now take responsibility for what happens next?

6- The possible fall of deir al zor to #ISIL can be seen as the mini version of the fall of mosul

7-#Damascus currently faces a massive challenge to prevent the fall of Deir al Zor and its nearly 300,000 citizens (or 50,000 citizens considering the refugee crisis?)

8- If the coalition strike is indeed a mistake, #Damascus is not aware of any such admission or of any plans to reverse #ISIL gains




- RUSSIA DENIES KNOWLEDGE OF US AIRSTRIKES THAT KILLED 80 SAA SOLDIERS IN DEIR-EZ-ZOR
- BREAKING: RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY: WHITE HOUSE IS "DEFENDING ISIS TERRORISTS"
- Russia convenes urgent UN Security Council meeting after US coalition strikes on Syrian army
- The ceasefire seems down, fighting is coming
- US used an ECM/jamming jet to cover it's attack on Dir Al Zor airport ,making sure Syrian radars didn't see them coming
- US AH-64 helicopter targeted an ambulance that was trying to evacuate injured soldiers during the attack
- TL;DR Israel is helping Al-Qaeda in the Golan Heights and America is helping ISIS in Deir Ezzor.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
September 18 2016 01:15 GMT
#7446
Really bad news. First MSF, now this. Who is ID'ing targets for the coalition? The rebels? Russian "news" will have a field day with this one.


- RUSSIA DENIES KNOWLEDGE OF US AIRSTRIKES THAT KILLED 80 SAA SOLDIERS IN DEIR-EZ-ZOR
- BREAKING: RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY: WHITE HOUSE IS "DEFENDING ISIS TERRORISTS"
- Russia convenes urgent UN Security Council meeting after US coalition strikes on Syrian army
- The ceasefire seems down, fighting is coming
- US used an ECM/jamming jet to cover it's attack on Dir Al Zor airport ,making sure Syrian radars didn't see them coming
- US AH-64 helicopter targeted an ambulance that was trying to evacuate injured soldiers during the attack
- TL;DR Israel is helping Al-Qaeda in the Golan Heights and America is helping ISIS in Deir Ezzor.
[/QUOTE]

What is the source on the radar jamming and operating an Apache over Syria? U.S. deliberately helping ISIS? Sounds like a load of malarkey to me.
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
September 18 2016 02:32 GMT
#7447
Well, that's the Russian narrative.

USA narrative is
"Whoops bombed the guys we want out of power and it just so happens to coincidentally align with our interests if the conflict goes on longer. Total mistake.. just like the last time we bombed a place and it was over-run by ISIS."

Russia narrative is
"Why can't the world see that US is just funding radicals against to do their dirty work so that they can build the oil pipeline from Qatar - Turkey (among other major goals) and undercut Russian interests?!"

I don't trust either, frankly. And regardless of who is right I'm rooting for USA because.. well, USA is our ally.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
September 18 2016 11:09 GMT
#7448
Its obvoius for me that USA doesn`t want the conflict to end.
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
September 18 2016 13:48 GMT
#7449
Obama should have cleaned out Assad before Russia even got majorly involved.
Deir ez Zor, it is a city in eastern Syria which is held by the Syrian army that has been completely surrounded by ISIS for miles in every direction for years now. The next Syrian army position or Syrian rebel position is a 100 miles away. There is no one in Syria or Iraq that has repelled more attacks by ISIS than the Syrian army garrison Deir ez Zor.
Edit: CENTCOM statement:
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-18 14:18:54
September 18 2016 14:15 GMT
#7450
On September 18 2016 20:09 mdb wrote:
Its obvoius for me that USA doesn`t want the conflict to end.

We are talking about a single air strike gone wrong here. US has even bombed its own troops and of course civilians in the past. Russia has bombed Assad troops and civilians in the past. SAA have bombed about everything. It is bound to happen in a conflict as chaotic as this one.
Honestly I cant believe it was the first time, would at least be very surprising.
Off-season = best season
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
September 18 2016 14:29 GMT
#7451
On September 18 2016 23:15 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2016 20:09 mdb wrote:
Its obvoius for me that USA doesn`t want the conflict to end.

We are talking about a single air strike gone wrong here. US has even bombed its own troops in the past. Russia has bombed Assad troops and civilians in the past. SAA have bombed about everything. It is bound to happen in a conflict as chaotic as this one.
Honestly I cant believe it was the first time, would at least be very surprising.


I would buy that, but US wants regime change and Assad dead more than ISIS.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6336 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-18 15:47:33
September 18 2016 15:39 GMT
#7452
On September 18 2016 23:15 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2016 20:09 mdb wrote:
Its obvoius for me that USA doesn`t want the conflict to end.

We are talking about a single air strike gone wrong here. US has even bombed its own troops and of course civilians in the past. Russia has bombed Assad troops and civilians in the past. SAA have bombed about everything. It is bound to happen in a conflict as chaotic as this one.
Honestly I cant believe it was the first time, would at least be very surprising.

When has the Russian air force bombed the Syrian army?
On September 18 2016 22:48 SK.Testie wrote:
Obama should have cleaned out Assad before Russia even got majorly involved.

I know you want Trump to win but Obama and Clinton have already caused enough death and destruction in that part of the World to prove that they are incompetent. Turning Syria into a Jihadi black hole would just be overkill and ruin everything that is left.

Syria has survived the worst of it and life can return to normal after the war with Assad, handing the country over to 'moderate' cannibals and beheaders helps no one.
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-18 19:44:30
September 18 2016 16:04 GMT
#7453
On September 19 2016 00:39 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2016 23:15 Redox wrote:
On September 18 2016 20:09 mdb wrote:
Its obvoius for me that USA doesn`t want the conflict to end.

We are talking about a single air strike gone wrong here. US has even bombed its own troops and of course civilians in the past. Russia has bombed Assad troops and civilians in the past. SAA have bombed about everything. It is bound to happen in a conflict as chaotic as this one.
Honestly I cant believe it was the first time, would at least be very surprising.

When has the Russian air force bombed the Syrian army?
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2016 22:48 SK.Testie wrote:
Obama should have cleaned out Assad before Russia even got majorly involved.

I know you want Trump to win but Obama and Clinton have already caused enough death and destruction in that part of the World to prove that they are incompetent. Turning Syria into a Jihadi black hole would just be overkill and ruin everything that is left.

Syria has survived the worst of it and life can return to normal after the war with Assad, handing the country over to 'moderate' cannibals and beheaders helps no one.


Eh Trump doesn't need to be mentioned on FP. He's completely ignorant of foreign policy. It's one of the reasons I'm mostly against him.

I don't think they're incompetent. What happened in Libya, what happened in Iraq, and what happened in Syria are "just as planned." The main snag being that they didn't get to take out Assad before hand. And now Russia is involved heavily. All these "mistakes" by America aren't really mistakes. They have the best overview of the region.

There's a lot of benefits to America if Syria is taken by 'moderate' beheaders. Mainly that they can turn their focus to Iran and complete their goals. It's just a very ruthless approach to what they see as a richer, stronger American presence in the world. And with a strong hierarchy, there's more "peace" in the future.

I'd like to state that long term, I'm not sure if throwing in with America's FP is correct, however I believe it is the wisest course thus far with the information I have. You could rightly say, "you have it wrong and you're a fucking idiot this other way would be way better." But it's a very long conversation that has to predict years into the future and come to the understanding that the lid is off this situation, it's not just going to fit right back on nice and neat.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
September 19 2016 06:27 GMT
#7454
On September 18 2016 23:29 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2016 23:15 Redox wrote:
On September 18 2016 20:09 mdb wrote:
Its obvoius for me that USA doesn`t want the conflict to end.

We are talking about a single air strike gone wrong here. US has even bombed its own troops in the past. Russia has bombed Assad troops and civilians in the past. SAA have bombed about everything. It is bound to happen in a conflict as chaotic as this one.
Honestly I cant believe it was the first time, would at least be very surprising.


I would buy that, but US wants regime change and Assad dead more than ISIS.


Pretty sure we don't. We made a red-line ultimatum and when it was crossed had every justification for intervening to stop the use of chemical fucking weapons. But we didn't. Instead, we bombed Daesh. If we wanted to fight Assad we had a moment when Russia couldn't have done much beyond protesting. We don't like him, but refused to attack at the moment when there was enormous pressure to do so.

Also lol that we don't want it to end. If Obama could end the war tomorrow, he would give HRC an enormous boost in the polls and secure his legacy. Even short-term stability would help enormously.
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9188 Posts
September 19 2016 12:48 GMT
#7455
The UK took part in a recent air strike in Syria that killed dozens of government troops fighting the so-called Islamic State, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has confirmed.

Russia said at least 62 Syrian troops were killed in the Deir al-Zour strikes on Saturday. The MoD said it would "not intentionally target Syrian military units". The US has already expressed "regret" for the "unintentional loss of life".

An MoD spokesman said: "We can confirm that the UK participated in the recent coalition air strike in Syria, south of Deir al-Zour on Saturday and we are fully co-operating with the coalition investigation."

A Syrian army source said the air strike had allowed IS to gain ground in the area around the Syrian airbase, but that Syrian forces had regained most positions on the hilltop nearby with the help of Syrian and Russian air support.

The attack is likely to endanger an already shaky ceasefire deal, which was agreed by the US and Russia and came into effect in Syria on 12 September, but important terms of the deal, such as the safe passage of aid, have still not been fulfilled.

The Pentagon said it was targeting what it thought was an IS fighting position, but the air strike was halted when Russia informed them that they were instead hitting President Assad's forces.

The British aircraft that took part in the operation are believed to have been unmanned remotely piloted Reaper drones.


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37409236
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
September 19 2016 19:32 GMT
#7456
I'm guessing aid will never arrive in Aleppo.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 20 2016 03:54 GMT
#7457
The Syrian military announced Monday it is no longer observing a cease-fire brokered by the U.S. and Russia to allow food and medicine into besieged areas.

Seven days after the agreement was reached by Russia, which backs Syrian President Bashar Assad, and the U.S., which backs anti-Assad rebels, the regime blamed the truce's collapse on the rebels, and unilaterally declared that the cease-fire is over.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
September 20 2016 04:14 GMT
#7458
Par for the course.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18246 Posts
September 20 2016 08:35 GMT
#7459
On September 20 2016 04:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I'm guessing aid will never arrive in Aleppo.

Nice jinx
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
September 20 2016 12:18 GMT
#7460
some info on the rebels https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/commentaryanalysis/567363-why-did-jabhat-fatah-al-sham-fail-its-attempted-merger-with-syrian-rebels
Ideological differences and worries over the reaction of Western-backers have given rebels pause over unification.

Over the last several weeks, a number of reports have come out of Syria predicting an imminent merger between Jabhat Fatah al-Sham, the rebranded former Al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra, and other powerful rebel groups. These reports came in the wake of a number of high profile meetings between group leaders to discuss the possibility and the details of such a merger. Lending credence to the reports, Abou Youssef al-Muhajir, the military spokesman for the Islamist Ahrar al-Sham movement, released a video statement, which was widely circulated by activists on social media, in favor of such a merger. “Preparatory sessions for major integration projects on the Syria-wide level are underway,” Muhajir claimed, adding “There will be unification and mergers among the biggest Syrian revolutionary groups, and the results will come very soon.” However, despite the serious efforts that apparently went into merger negotiations, predictions of an imminent unification are jumping the gun and underestimate the internal and external challenges that hinder such a move.
...
It is difficult to say with absolute certainty that the rumored merger between Jabhat Fatah al-Sham and other rebel groups is dead. Such a move could theoretically strengthen rebel unity and increase their fighting efficiency against the regime, but it would also come with a heavy price, possibly putting themselves in the crosshairs of the most powerful militaries in the world. Therefore, even if some groups come out in favor of such a merger, many others rebels will refuse to follow, as the benefits to unification do not seem to outweigh the likely negative consequences.
thing is, US does not control the factions it negotiates for(and i'm not talking here about rebels only); plus, Pentagon/CIA being at odds with the White House does not help at all. one can easily make an argument about factions within US power structure that are doing whatever they can to drag the war until Obama will be gone then lobby for a full intervention in Syria, changing US strategy once again.

on the other side: Turkey signed deals with Russia so it will abide by them, Iran is 95% on board with the russian plans and i'd put Assad at ~75%ish, but if push comes to shove i think he won't be stupid about his transition period.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
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