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AIDS Denialism?

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Capulet
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada686 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 01:13:00
February 13 2011 00:14 GMT
#1
The Gazette (Montreal newspaper) has recently published an article where the author (Terry Michale) denies the existence of AIDS and uses the boxer Tommy Morrison as an argument. The second article is a response by a physician associated with McGill University (Dr. Norbert Gilmore) who points out the fallacies in the first article and expands on the consequences of denying AIDS' existence.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Junk science AIDS/4228525/story.html

"What if most everything you think you know about HIV and AIDS is wrong?"

That's the message U.S. boxer Tommy Morrison is sending to Canadian sports fans -and the world-in a confrontation with the Regie des alcools, des courses et des jeux. The gaming board is asking the 42-year-old fighter to take an HIV blood test to qualify for meeting Eric Barrak in a main event Feb. 25 at Pierre Charbonneau Centre.

Regulating a sport that often draws blood, RACJ says Morrison must submit to a test much of the world wrongly believes indicates presence of a pathogenic virus, a string of genetic code in nucleic acid covered in protein. Basing its claimontheworkof Dr. Robert Gallo, the U.S. government 27 years ago announced "the probable cause of AIDS" was indeed such a virus. President Ronald Reagan's Health Secretary, Margaret Heckler, told a press conference April 23, 1984, that immune systems of gay men were collapsing from a retrovirus Gallo claimed to isolate, a virus he said was transmitted through blood during sex.

A researcher at the National Institutes of Health, Gallo's ethics were later the subject of two government inquiries and a major Chicago Tribune investigation of the claim he discovered the "AIDS virus" and "AIDS blood test." When hailed by Heckler as discoverer of HIV, Gallo had published not a single peer-reviewed scientific paper backing his claim. In what might be termed a split decision in boxing, the U.S. and French governments decided in 1987 to share the disputed discovery between Gallo and Dr. Luc Montagnier of the Institut Pasteur -and more importantly, to divide the lucrative profits from the widely used blood test.

That 1984 media event came in a presidential election year, when Reagan was accused of insensitivity to gay men, refusing to utter the newly minted acronym AIDS. Gays embraced the "discovery" offered by the science bureaucrat Gallo, who had been trying with virtually no success for a dozen years to relate his retroviruses to cancer.

A 19th-century germ theory answer to what first was called Gay Related Immune Deficiency was welcomed by the gay community. It made AIDS "everybody's disease," trumping growing evidence it was actually of multifactorial causation, that immune systems were collapsing from: (1) frequent, multi-partner exchange of old pathogens in incestuous urban gay enclaves, causing diseases like gonorrhea and syphilis, heavily treated with antibiotics, which destroy immune-healthful gut bacteria; (2) ubiquitous use of immune suppressive toxins, including alcohol, cocaine, amphetamines and nitrites ( "poppers"), which fuelled partying in a small but significant subset of urban gay culture; and (3) the suppressive psychogenic effects of anxiety and stress on naive, youthful gay male immune systems, from blowback by newly politicized religious fundamentalists, pillorying "unclean gay lifestyles."

I write this with first-hand knowledge. I am a 63-year-old gay man, who participated in that "lifestyle" and who witnessed politicizing of medical science while serving as press secretary in the mid-1980s at the Democratic National Committee, the party opposing Ronald Reagan and supportive of gay rights.

With that brief history, I return to Tommy Morrison and the blood-test-about-nothing Quebec regulators are asking him to take. In fact, the test is nothing more than an assay for some blood proteins that can result from 70 different conditions, including pregnancy and flu vaccinations. Morrison tested reactive -the correct term for the meaningless result -- when he had blood drawn by the Nevada boxing commission before a 1996 fight. He later took "the test" several times and was "negative" -but after being placed on highly toxic, "antiretroviral" chemotherapy, drugs still administered to millions of humans, mostly gay men and black Africans, convinced they carry a lethal bug, not just proteins declared by Gallo to be markers for HIV.

Morrison eventually learned the truth about the test and the chemotherapy, which he stopped taking after it almost destroyed his health.

Thousands of us in the worldwide community of dissenters from the single pathogen theory of AIDS understand Tommy Morrison is really looking for more than a fight in Montreal. He is offering an important teaching moment to Quebecers, Canadians, and millions worldwide who are victims of the multi-billion dollar HIV-AIDS Industry.

The HIV-AIDS story is complex. Many of us have devoted years of study to it, and have concluded there is not now and there never was a human immunodeficiency virus. We ask the world to reassess 27-year-old politicized junk science. Canadians can contribute to that fight for truth by opposing injustice being visited on an American athlete who should be allowed to enter a ring Feb. 25 without taking a test about nothing.

Terry Michael is executive director of the Washington Centre for Politics & Journalism.

© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette




http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/denial fatal/4247661/story.html#comments#comments

MONTREAL - How I wish that the opinion article "Junk science and AIDS" by Terry Michael (Gazette, Feb. 5) had begun: "Once upon a time there was a wicked journalist preying on sick and dying people ..." Instead, the article brought us a seemingly reputable journalist publishing a vitriolic and prejudiced rant exhorting Canadians to know that "there is not now and there never was a human immunodeficiency virus."

Michael is wrong - as are the arguments he uses to deny that the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) can cause the fatal destruction of the immune system that we call AIDS. Were his article to have been government-sponsored, people would in all likelihood be crying propaganda! It is incongruous and inexplicable that the executive director of what is claimed to be a prestigious and responsible U.S. journalism foundation could write such a misleading and harmful article.

I will not address the prejudiced, pejorative nomenclature Michael uses -such as "lucrative profits," "incestuous urban gay enclaves," "victims of a multi-billion dollar HIV-AIDS industry." Nor will I address his distorted presentation of the science and history of HIV/ AIDS with which he justifies his denial that HIV can cause fatal illness. Science establishes its truths through reproducible and peer-reviewed evidence, not by what politicians, journalists, or even individual scientists might "declare." The quality of science that explains the cause and disease mechanisms of HIV infection that lead to AIDS, and that underlies the development of highly effective anti-HIV treatments, resulted in a 2008 Nobel Prize being awarded to the two scientists who discovered HIV.

The biggest danger from Michael's article is that it might mislead people into failing to understand that HIV is a killer. Without treatment, almost everyone who is infected with HIV will eventually die from the infection. There is abundant evidence that HIV can be transmitted from infected mothers to their babies, through contaminated blood transfusions, by sexual intercourse from HIV-infected wives, husbands or gay partners, or by sharing bloody injection equipment.

Today, the most convincing argument that HIV causes AIDS is that anti-HIV medications -often called antiretrovirals or ARVs - are prolonging the lives of millions of HIV-infected people. The number of HIVinfected people progressing to the life-threatening immunodeficiency that is full-blown AIDS living in Canada or anywhere else has plummeted wherever these medications are being widely used. Blood is now safe thanks to HIV screening tests. Just as impressive is that babies are born uninfected when their mothers are effectively treated. And many of the millions who are taking ARVs are no longer dying or ill but, instead, are returning to work, having babies, and planning a long life.

As a physician and a researcher who has studied HIV infection and cared for HIV-infected adults for 30 years, I am very worried by the real danger that an article such as Michael's might persuade some infected people to forgo prevention that can protect their partners from being exposed to or infected by HIV. And, sadly, it might also persuade some people who are infected to forgo life-saving treatments.

Michael focuses on the case of American boxer Tommy Morrison, who is refusing to undergo HIV testing to be eligible to fight in Quebec. He describes a situation where the boxer's HIV test was initially reactive and he began ARV treatment. Those drugs are only used to treat people who are HIV-infected (i. e. they have reactive tests that are confirmed positive) and who are likely to benefit from being treated. Even if Morrison's subsequent tests became "negative" when being treated with ARVs -an extremely unusual result -he nonetheless remains infected. If Morrison was once found to be HIV positive and needed treatment, then, like everyone else who has been infected with HIV, his infection is a lifelong one, and he remains infected and potentially infectious. As a boxer, he would be a danger were he to be cut, because this could expose others to his HIV-carrying blood.

Morrison's denial is exactly the danger that this article is likely to exacerbate. It's essential that all HIV-infected people accept that they are infected and can, at times, be a potential danger to others. In contrast to Morrison and Michael, all of us, especially anyone who is HIV-infected, need to send a clear prevention message that will help to protect others, instead of one that denies HIV and that suggests being exposed to HIV is not dangerous. This is a universal response to HIV that we hope everyone -especially those who are infected -will understand and pass on.

Norbert Gilmore is professor of medicine (emeritus) at McGill University and a senior physician at the McGill University Health Centre.

© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette




More importantly, if you read the comment section of the articles (especially the second one) you will see Tommy Morrison and Dr. Norbert Gilmore throwing interesting arguments at each other:

Tommy The Duke Morrison
12:58 PM on February 12, 2011

to: DrErD
you wrote:
1)"and I described the HIV tests and their accuracy. As I told you, I've done these things myself, and they work. The tests are accurate and they detect HIV."
IF YOU HAVE PERSONALLY DONE THESE "ACCURATE" HIV TESTS that detect the presence or absence of the HIV VIRUS...WHICH ONE did you take?
2)" All La RACJ wants is for you to take one of these accurate tests. Why won't you do it?"
THE RACJ WON'T TELL ME WHAT TEST THEY WANT ME TO DO..THEY WANT TO TAKE ME TO AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION. I WILL DO THE TEST THAT DETECTS 100% THE HIV VIRUS-
3)"If someone accused you of fathering a child and refusing to pay child support, and you knew you didn't do it, wouldn't you step up and take the DNA test to clear your name? "
YOU CAN BUY PATERNITY TESTS AT WALGREENS. WHAT SHELF IS THE HIV VIRUS TEST DETECTING THE HIV VIRUS ON? DrErD...Gallo..FDA..CDC ...won't you tell me the name of the HIV VIRUS TEST?
WHY are you all avoiding this one specific reques


DrErD
1:49 PM on February 12, 2011

Tommy,
I gave several links to HIV test information. Pick any one , two, three or more of ten or fifteen available tests, some of which you can buy online to test yourself. Now, I don't recommend self-testing for HIV or paternity or anything else. It's more reliable to have an expert do the testing, just like it's better to have a qualified electrician install a new circuit breaker panel in your house than to try doing it yourself. But the at-home testing is available.
The reason La RACJ wants you to be tested under supervised conditions is because you have been accused of blood sample fraud, like other athletes "urinate" from a pouch of someone else's urine in their pants to fake a steroid test. Everyone thinks you're lying and you're HIV positive and you're too scared to take the test. That's why you're saying the earth is flat and HIV doesn't exist. Prove them wrong, prove you're not the coward they think you are. Take whatever test RACJ wants; they're all accurate.


Having studied microbiology and immunology and having done laboratory research on HIV, I find it completely ridiculous to deny the existence of HIV and AIDS. It has killed millions and will continue to kill millions more if we just ignore it. However, I realize that I am completely against AIDS Denialism because I have spent my entire life in the scientific field and my thoughts may just be biased. Thus, I would like to have some unbiased opinions:

Some questions to think and discuss about:
1- Should Tommy Morrison be allowed to fight? Is he "innocent until proven guilty?" Keep in mind there is no "in between" answer for this because Tommy loses money by not fighting, but if he actually has HIV he will be jeopardizing the life of his opponent during the fight.
2- Is this an example of scientific illiteracy or does Terry Michael (author of the first article) and Tommy Morrison raise some valid points?
3- AIDS Denialsim vs Pharmaceutical companies making billions of $ selling anti-viral drugs.

tl;dr
-Tommy Morrison is a boxer that is being barred from fighting because he tested positive for HIV in 1996, but has subsequently taken 3-4 more tests where he supposedly tested negative. He is not allowed to fight unless he takes another HIV test. But he refuses to take another test unless it is 100% accurate. In the mean time, he claims to have been robbed of millions of $ because of not being able to fight.
-Terry Michael is a journalist who published an article denying the existence of HIV, and seems to have already convinced a few people.
-Dr. Norbert Gilmore outlines the fatal repercussions ignoring HIV.

Once again, I would like to remind readers to also take a look at the comments section of these articles.
"I'm just killing the spiders to save the butterflies... Wanting to save both is a contradiction. What would you rather do? Keep deliberating? The butterfly will be eaten in the meantime."
AcuWill
Profile Joined August 2010
United States281 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 00:48:07
February 13 2011 00:38 GMT
#2
http://www.duesberg.com/papers/chemical-bases.html

Good read for a basic understanding of a lot of the arguments of those challenging HIV=AIDS theory.

The term denialists is an ad hominum attack seeking to cause visions of individuals who deny that the holocaust ever occurred when referring those who question the scientific evidence of HIV = AIDs theory. By its nature it is bigoted.

Two people "discovered" the theory that HIV causes AIDS. Robert Gallo and Luc Montagnier. Gallo was convicted in international court of fraud and stealing research from Montagnier. Montagnier never thought the research he was doing showed that HIV causes AIDS. He has stated his theory that what is called AIDS requires cofactors, ie. HIV is not the sole cause of AIDS and that AIDS (the syndrome of immune deficiency which he does not believe is solely caused by HIV) can be cured through nutritional means and treating root causes of presenting diseases.

So, HIV=AIDS theory is based on a fraud that stole research from an individual who does not believe his research indicated HIV causes AIDS.

And no, there has never been further research to show that HIV is the probable cause of AIDS since.

Edit: Montagnier
Lyzon
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United Kingdom440 Posts
February 13 2011 00:45 GMT
#3
"THE STRECKER MEMORANDUM"

http://www.eaec.org/dove/dove1994sp/is_aids_man_made.htm

A very interesting read


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6068096409136912010#

The video of the strecker memorandum
Crushgroove
Profile Joined July 2010
United States793 Posts
February 13 2011 00:54 GMT
#4
People will believe anything. Any individual who actually cares to not be an ignorant retard would study microbiology and the etiology of AIDS prior to misleading others. Having seen the virus under the microscope, most of this strikes me as sad/funny.
[In Korea on Vaca] "Why would I go to the park and climb a mountain? There are video games on f*cking TV!" - Kazuke
Kakera
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States419 Posts
February 13 2011 01:00 GMT
#5
See even scientists resort to CAPSLOCK and vitriolic slander, why can't we? Why can't I say someone is dumb for their ideas and provide illogical reasoning for it? These guys are my role models, Btw the Earth is flat and God created both himself and everything. Go prove me wrong and prove you're not the coward we all think you are.


OT: I'm pretty sure people are dying from something that causes there immune system to shut down... Whether we call it AIDS or flamferglebutt shouldn't matter... People are dying from a disease.
AcuWill
Profile Joined August 2010
United States281 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 01:05:55
February 13 2011 01:00 GMT
#6
On February 13 2011 09:54 Crushgroove wrote:
People will believe anything. Any individual who actually cares to not be an ignorant retard would study microbiology and the etiology of AIDS prior to misleading others. Having seen the virus under the microscope, most of this strikes me as sad/funny.

Funny, as there has never been evidence to prove the existence of HIV published. You would be the first. All you need to do is publish evidence that what you were staring at actually causes AIDS, win a Nobel Prize. There are also other easy awards. Here, $100000 for the first person to provide evidence of the above.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=125730915349&topic=15265

Note, it should be simply for someone to claim this $100000, but nobody has. There are other such awards out there. You will be a millionaire, Nobel Prize winner and one of the most famous scientists alive in no time.
AcuWill
Profile Joined August 2010
United States281 Posts
February 13 2011 01:01 GMT
#7
On February 13 2011 10:00 Kakera wrote:
See even scientists resort to CAPSLOCK and vitriolic slander, why can't we? Why can't I say someone is dumb for their ideas and provide illogical reasoning for it? These guys are my role models, Btw the Earth is flat and God created both himself and everything. Go prove me wrong and prove you're not the coward we all think you are.


OT: I'm pretty sure people are dying from something that causes there immune system to shut down... Whether we call it AIDS or flamferglebutt shouldn't matter... People are dying from a disease.

The key question is whether HIV is causing it, not whether AIDS exists, which nobody would argue against.
Fraidnot
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States824 Posts
February 13 2011 01:18 GMT
#8
False positives and false negatives do happen, but they are still rare. He should just take the test several times if he's worried about accuracy of the tests.
Capulet
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada686 Posts
February 13 2011 01:19 GMT
#9
It really depends on what your definition of "proof" is. I have seen HIV under electron microscopy and I have worked with HIV proteins in various assays.
"I'm just killing the spiders to save the butterflies... Wanting to save both is a contradiction. What would you rather do? Keep deliberating? The butterfly will be eaten in the meantime."
Rev0lution
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1805 Posts
February 13 2011 01:23 GMT
#10
AIDS was an INSIDE JOB.
My dealer is my best friend, and we don't even chill.
YoungNeil
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada328 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 01:26:41
February 13 2011 01:24 GMT
#11
On February 13 2011 10:00 AcuWill wrote:
Funny, as there has never been evidence to prove the existence of HIV published. You would be the first.

Do pictures count?
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

It's actually a very well-documented virus, your claim that it doesn't even exist is laughable. We know what kind of cells in the body it infects (primarily macrophages and CD4+ T Cells), we know its structure (pretty much your typical retrovirus, with its own unique markers, of course), and we know its taxonomic variations (see here). It's been examined more closely than almost any other pathogen in history.

On February 13 2011 10:00 AcuWill wrote:
All you need to do is publish evidence that what you were staring at actually causes AIDS, win a Nobel Prize and be the first to publish such a thing

Yeah, that happened.

The link between HIV and AIDS is extremely well-supported. It fulfills all of Koch's postulates, as established by numerous studies. It must also be noted that AIDS-like, catastrophic immunodeficiency infections are extremely rare outside of those infected with HIV. I could give all kinds of sources to look at, if you're willing to seriously consider just how far you've been misled. AIDS denialism (arguably an ad-hominem term, I suppose, but certainly no worse than the language used in the first article) has been pseudoscience since the nineties. And unlike many popular conspiracy theories, it kills people, every day. Spreading this kind of nonsense is very dangerous, and you need to make sure that you're extremely confident in your beliefs before you try to convince others to risk their lives on it.
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
February 13 2011 01:26 GMT
#12
Oh you conspiracy nutters!
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
ProjectVirtue
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada360 Posts
February 13 2011 01:29 GMT
#13
Oh wow, i just did a paper on aids denialism last week actually.

If you've heard about this issue before i'm sure that you've heard of duesberg and his shenanigans here and there. Lotsa relatively solid arguments from him on the surface that capable of convincing the mass majority (specially if published on a media network) but when investigating his methods, it almost seemed like he skipped all of the cellular mechanisms behind HIV infection and integration.

for example) one of his papers from 1989 went to disprove HIV as causative for AIDS by saying that it doesn't meet koch's postulate. The problem with that was koch's postulate, also supposed to work for pathogens in general, does have a number of limitations and retrograde viruses like HIV fall under that condition.
俺はダメ人間。。。
Aquafresh
Profile Joined May 2007
United States824 Posts
February 13 2011 01:32 GMT
#14
On February 13 2011 10:00 AcuWill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2011 09:54 Crushgroove wrote:
People will believe anything. Any individual who actually cares to not be an ignorant retard would study microbiology and the etiology of AIDS prior to misleading others. Having seen the virus under the microscope, most of this strikes me as sad/funny.

Funny, as there has never been evidence to prove the existence of HIV published. You would be the first. All you need to do is publish evidence that what you were staring at actually causes AIDS, win a Nobel Prize. There are also other easy awards. Here, $100000 for the first person to provide evidence of the above.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=125730915349&topic=15265

Note, it should be simply for someone to claim this $100000, but nobody has. There are other such awards out there. You will be a millionaire, Nobel Prize winner and one of the most famous scientists alive in no time.


There are plenty of bogus prizes just like this. They are always offered by people/organizations with an agenda looking to sway public opinion. No one takes them seriously because no one expects them to be awarded even in the face of overwhelming proof. Witness the numerous open reward contests to provide proof of evolution.

It's a tired tactic, but it seems to have worked on you so I guess it's still effective.
SexyHyung
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
42 Posts
February 13 2011 01:32 GMT
#15
herpderp obama is a muslim alien and hes UNAMERICAN herpderp fox news told me so!

in any case people like this are nuts. its the same as people who think 9/11 was a government conspiracy, evolution is a lie and the world is 6000 years old, or that vaccines cause autism in kids. stupid people will believe anything! and there are alot of stupid people in this world.
Kakera
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States419 Posts
February 13 2011 01:32 GMT
#16
Clearly this is related
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

AIDS is clearly God's metaphorical wolf culling our overpopulation problem, which is why this can't be explained. Elementary, dear Watson.

User was banned for this post.
Igakusei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States610 Posts
February 13 2011 01:36 GMT
#17
On February 13 2011 10:00 AcuWill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2011 09:54 Crushgroove wrote:
People will believe anything. Any individual who actually cares to not be an ignorant retard would study microbiology and the etiology of AIDS prior to misleading others. Having seen the virus under the microscope, most of this strikes me as sad/funny.

Funny, as there has never been evidence to prove the existence of HIV published. You would be the first. All you need to do is publish evidence that what you were staring at actually causes AIDS, win a Nobel Prize. There are also other easy awards. Here, $100000 for the first person to provide evidence of the above.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=125730915349&topic=15265

Note, it should be simply for someone to claim this $100000, but nobody has. There are other such awards out there. You will be a millionaire, Nobel Prize winner and one of the most famous scientists alive in no time.


Why do you people always sound so sure of yourselves?

The less you know, the more you think you know, because you don't know you don't know.

Secondly to the person who said AIDS was an inside job, the diversity of current HIV strains point towards infected humans decades before we had even discovered the structure of DNA. Please try to convince me that we genetically engineered a retrovirus we didn't know was possible with information and technology that didn't exist yet.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 01:42:40
February 13 2011 01:39 GMT
#18
On February 13 2011 10:36 Igakusei wrote:
Secondly to the person who said AIDS was an inside job, the diversity of current HIV strains point towards infected humans decades before we had even discovered the structure of DNA. Please try to convince me that we genetically engineered a retrovirus we didn't know was possible with information and technology that didn't exist yet.


i believe it was a troll pun, buddy. look at the CAPS

ot: of course it's false. like the moon landing. unlike homeopathy. (before anyone responds: /troll)
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
freestalker
Profile Joined March 2010
469 Posts
February 13 2011 01:45 GMT
#19
Why is this discussion even going on. This is a stuff for psychologist to find out why he's avoiding tests. Either he is positive or negative. If he's negative, he could be scared someone will try to 'fake' tests to make them positive. In that case this boxer is not entirely alright, maybe too paranoid? Or he really is positive and in that case he's simply afraid that the truth will come out.

The 'denying' of existence of HIV is just ridiculous. HIV is a virus, AIDS is as name says - acquired immune deficiency syndrome and is a final state/symptom of HIV.

I am really shocked how can someone even try to refuse these things and try to pull off some 'conspiracy' when there are many people that even work with this virus. Soon someone will try to persuade me that homeopatics really modify the structure of water and electrons fly around atoms in circles or whatever.

Go read some books. gl hf
Igakusei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States610 Posts
February 13 2011 01:52 GMT
#20
On February 13 2011 10:39 Jayjay54 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2011 10:36 Igakusei wrote:
Secondly to the person who said AIDS was an inside job, the diversity of current HIV strains point towards infected humans decades before we had even discovered the structure of DNA. Please try to convince me that we genetically engineered a retrovirus we didn't know was possible with information and technology that didn't exist yet.


i believe it was a troll pun, buddy. look at the CAPS

ot: of course it's false. like the moon landing. unlike homeopathy. (before anyone responds: /troll)


It's not always obvious. My sister believes that AIDS as a human epidemic was created by HIV contamination (intentional or otherwise) of OPV vaccines, despite all evidence to the contrary. There are even a handful of scientists (Duesberg is the obvious example) who are outspoken against HIV-induced AIDS. You and I understand it's as ridiculous as homeopathy, but thousands of other people don't; and some of them are in this thread.
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