On August 27 2012 02:12 cinnabun wrote: As long as companies are allowed to (and incentivized to) go to space and develop new technologies and techniques, then our tax dollars aren't needed in NASA. However, they are not currently incentivized beyond their own ideas for potential profitability down the line, and as long as this is the issue that will make it ever more critical that we spend on NASA.
In order for larger steps to be possible, NASA has to be the one to make them, because of the risks involved. If there is no NASA pushing us deeper into space, then it may take us twice as long to expand to colonize the moon, mars, etc, because the only thing up there right now for profit (within a reasonable time period) is the hydrogen supply on the moon.
You also have to factor in the cultural and technological boost NASA gives, and the economical boost as well
The Apollo program was expensive, but it has been estimated that, for every dollar spent on the Apollo program, the nation has received nine dollars in benefits from new technologies.
- From NASA.gov
I would rather see us reach our potential and have things like "Mass Effect" and "Star Trek/Star Wars" become a reality. The only way to advance our civilization is through space exploration and planetary colonization.
Many people are familiar with the memory of a space shuttle blasting off the launchpad powered by gigantic solid rocket boosters and those fortunate to have been around in the 1960s will have been lucky enough to witness the mighty Saturn V moon rocket launch Neil Armstrong and his crew to the Moon. Memories aside, space travel is changing as commercial enterprise develops transport for both crew and cargo.
Many companies are now developing spacecraft that will serve the needs of government agencies, companies wishing to put satellites into orbit and individuals prepared to pay for their space adventure. NASA is one of the space agencies that is hiring the services of private enterprise to deliver cargo and eventually crew to the space station. Recently NASA announced further funding support for some of the US companines developing crewships - SpaceX, Sierra Nevada Corporation and Boeing.
Boeing is building its Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 space capsule to take humans into orbit. As reported by Sen, the recent drop tests of Boeing's CST-100 were carried out with help from another commercial space business, Bigelow Aerospace. Bigelow Aerospace plans to use the CST-100 to ferry customers to and from its planned Bigelow Orbiting Space Complex, an inflatable space station.
One of the greatest benefits of using inflatable habitats is the protection offered to its inhabitants from radiation. When spacecraft made from more conventional metal structures are exposed to radiation, from events such as a coronal mass ejection, a secondary radiation effect occurs. This can either be from scattering of the radiation, or the atoms in the structure itself can become excited and re-radiate. This doesn't happen with non-metallic materials used in inflatable craft outer skins thereby significantly reducing the risk to its inhabitants.
At the heart of the inflatable technology is a material called Vectran, twice as strong as Kevlar and present in several layers of the 15cm thick skin of the Genesis craft. The flexible nature of the material results in further added safety for potential station inhabitants, a benefit supported by laboratory tests. It was found that micrometeoroids that would puncture the rigid skin of the International Space Station only penetrated half way through the skin of the Genesis craft. Because of its success so far, NASA are in talks with Bigelow for a module to attach to the ISS, called the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module. If it gets the go ahead, it could mean the first step in a new wave of space modules and craft.
Not only is the company talking to NASA about modules for the ISS but they have their sights on their own space station comprised of inflatable modules including their new BA 330 module which will be larger than the Genesis prototypes. The BA 330 space station, with a volume of 330 cubic metres, will be capable of accommodating up to six humans. It has protection from space debris with its "Micrometeorite and Orbital Debris Shield". Hypervelocity tests conducted by Bigelow Aerospace have shown that this shield provides greater protection than a traditional aluminium can design. The BA 330 design includes four large UV coated windows to give the occupants amazing views as they orbit Earth. The inflatable space station would use solar power and batteries and have its own environmental controls and life support system.
my big issue with the private space enterprise is pretty simple.....
When a NASA or Russian astronaut dies such as in the Challenger disaster, or the Apollo 1 tragedy the agency continues on. It is a government funded enterprise and the astronauts knew full well the risks etc.
When the same thing happens during a commercial space flight, the company responsible is finished. No ifs or buts. If I pay $10 to go to space and get killed, your company is fucked. No one will ever fly with them again, the PR damage would be ridiculous. And thats why it's never going to work how we would like it to.
If we want to go to Mars, which personally I do. We need governments to be the ones funding it, they are the only ones who can command both the money and infrastructure needed to do it. Low earth orbit has been done for half a century, we are really good at it, so private companies can get in on it now. But to further the frontier we need something like NASA or better yet, a world space organisation with money coming in from many countries to help low the burden on one country or another.
We could go to mars for $100 billion, in fact we could go for a lot less. If instead of that $100 billion coming solely from the US and Russia, every western country and any other African/Asian country that wanted to join in put in an equal share, it would be chump change. Simple fact is private space flight will only ever take us somewhere that government based space flight has been first. Every large expedition or scientific endeavor in the history of our species has been lead by government funding and there is a reason for that, no one else can afford to do it. No company is going to trump up $100 billion to go to Mars, because there is no direct profit in it. You don't get to Mars and suddenly make back your investment.
Its great that NASA are getting private sector help, thats the way things are supposed to work. NASA does the ground breaking first steps, gets good at getting us to and from wherever we want to go and then slowly the private sector takes over while NASA starts working on the next frontier. Since the 1970's we've basically stopped moving forward in space and have been content to putter around the edge of it, hoping for someone to come along and take us to the next step.....
Personally, the way things are going, China will be the first to Mars or perhaps the ESA, it definitely won't be NASA if the current trend holds. I come from a country without a space program, but if we had one, I know there wouldn't be any argument about whether or not its worth spending money on. It's a no brainer. NASA has cost less in 50 years than the second Iraq war spent in a few months, thats pretty good bang for your buck and certainly a better way of spending money.
Imagine what NASA could do with 1 years worth of the US military budget, let alone with 50 years of it.
According to a statement provided to NASAWatch by Elon Musk at SpaceX: "Falcon 9 detected an anomaly on one of the nine engines and shut it down. As designed, the flight computer then recomputed a new ascent profile in realtime to reach the target orbit, which is why the burn times were a bit longer. Like Saturn V, which experienced engine loss on two flights, the Falcon 9 is designed to handle an engine flameout and still complete its mission. I believe F9 is the only rocket flying today that, like a modern airliner, is capable of completing a flight successfully even after losing an engine. There was no effect on Dragon or the Space Station resupply mission."
The SpaceX Dragon spacecraft has been successfully captured at the International Space Station.
At approximately 6:56AM ET / 3:56AM PT, Expedition 33 crew member Akihiko Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency used the station's robotic arm to grapple Dragon.
Expedition 33 Commander Sunita Williams of NASA remarked, "Looks like we've tamed the Dragon. We're happy she's on board with us."
Approximately two and a half hours from grapple (exact time variable), Williams will gently install Dragon to Harmony's Common Berthing Mechanism, enabling it to be bolted in place for its expected two and a half week stay at the International Space Station.
MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA (October 11 2012) - The B612 Foundation today announced the formation and initial findings of its Sentinel Special Review Team (SSRT) to aid B612 in building the world's first privately funded deep space mission to protect Earth by providing early warning of threatening asteroids.
The SSRT will provide technical advice and assistance during the development and operations of the Sentinel Space Telescope mission. Members include scientists and aerospace experts independently selected by the B612 Sentinel leadership, and members assigned by NASA, which is providing technical support through a Space Act Agreement.
"Because the ultimate success of the Sentinel mission in finding and tracking threatening asteroids is so crucial to humanity, the B612 Foundation felt it was necessary to assemble one of the most experienced spacecraft technical teams on Earth to help it in its mission" said B612 Chairman and CEO Ed Lu. "They will provide the B612 Sentinel team with the best possible unbiased critical evaluation of our plans, as well as ongoing technical advice."
The SpaceX Dragon spacecraft has been successfully captured at the International Space Station.
At approximately 6:56AM ET / 3:56AM PT, Expedition 33 crew member Akihiko Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency used the station's robotic arm to grapple Dragon.
Expedition 33 Commander Sunita Williams of NASA remarked, "Looks like we've tamed the Dragon. We're happy she's on board with us."
Approximately two and a half hours from grapple (exact time variable), Williams will gently install Dragon to Harmony's Common Berthing Mechanism, enabling it to be bolted in place for its expected two and a half week stay at the International Space Station.
yea i was reading about the red dragon some time ago but didnt hear much about it since the concept announcement. but i cant seem to find any info on any lunar plans from spacex.
KENT, Wash. - Blue Origin conducted a successful Pad Escape test last week at its West Texas launch site, firing its pusher escape motor and launching a full-scale suborbital Crew Capsule from a launch vehicle simulator. The Crew Capsule traveled to an altitude of 2,307 feet under active thrust vector control before descending safely by parachute to a soft landing 1,630 feet downrange.
Blue Origin's novel pusher escape system has been designed and developed to allow full-envelope crew escape in the event of an emergency on ascent for its suborbital New Shepard system. As part of an incremental development program, the results of this test will inform the design of the escape system for its orbital Space Vehicle. Traditional tractor escape systems are not compatible with reuse. Blue Origin's pusher escape system is a key enabler of full-vehicle reusability, as well as improving the safety of human access to space.
"The first test of our suborbital Crew Capsule is a big step on the way to safe, affordable space travel," said Jeff Bezos, founder of Blue Origin. "This wouldn't have been possible without NASA's help, and the Blue Origin team worked hard and smart to design this system, build it, and pull off this test. Lots of smiles around here today. Gradatim Ferociter!"
While speaking at the Royal Aeronautical Society in London in November, the billionaire former Paypal Internet executive, Tesla electric car entrepreneur, and current Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) CEO and self-taught lead rocket engineer, Elon Musk, described his plan to enable a self-sustaining human colony on the planet Mars. This plan is to use reusable rockets and along with Mars landing and ascent craft. And to do it Musk announced that liquid oxygen (Lox) and Methane would be SpaceX's principal propellants of choice.
Musk began his talk by acknowledging that all did not go well on the latest mission of the expendable launch vehicle Falcon 9 which effectively lost its secondary payload as it placed Orbcomm OG2-01 commercial communications satellite payload in an incorrect orbit. Nevertheless Musk praised the rocket's rugged nine-engine design (which uses armour between each engine), as it did, at least, deliver its main payload, the Dragon CRS-1 cargo craft, to the correct orbit for NASA in spite of a violent engine shutdown.
"There is an advantage in having nine engines because if one of them does not work and has what we call a RUD, which is a Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly, it still makes it into orbit," Musk jokingly noted.
Musk added that though the recent partial launch failure had delayed future flights, he still expected to make four Falcon 9 flights next year, including three with its new upgraded Version 1.1.
The new Raptor upper stage engine is likely to be only the first engine in a series of Lox/methane engines. Larger engines will be derived from this. For all his arguments noting the advantages of having lots of smaller engine for engine-out redundancy, it is known that Musk has long wanted to have a larger sized engine that the current Merlin 1. Originally this larger engine dubbed Merlin 2 was to have been a generator cycle engine similar to the Merlin 1. This has however now been dropped, again, in favour of a staged-combustion engine using Lox/Methane as propellants. The name of this new rocket engine which is expected to be in the 1.5 million lb thrust class has not been disclosed.
The MCT codename which was incorrectly attributed to this large rocket engine is now instead believed to related to a Mars transport/landing concept with MCT is thought to stand for Mars Cargo or Crew Transport. Musk would neither confirm nor deny this but he did add that SpaceX was working on such a vehicle. Whether this would a single vehicle or one with different re-entry and descent/ascent components Musk appeared to think that it might be just one vehicle: "I think you could land with the entire thing," said Musk.
The real problem with the Mars mission is that unlike just putting up payloads or being an alternative to the Russian space mission is that it cant be monetized. Sure, theoretically there could be an entire circle of eccentric billionaires who dont mind handing Musk money over to create a colony out there but otherwise, who will pay? I thought his entire point was to prove that space exploration and electric vehicles and whatever other projects he undertakes can be both scientifically and financially viable. But unless Mars has some kind of rare and magical resource that we dont have down here, there is nothing there that we would want to pay money for. Or rather, the kind of money that it would take to get there and back safely. Obviously most of us would love to find out whether there really was life on Mars, whether there is still water down there somewhere and so forth
This one is not Space related but Elon Musk related, he's the real Tony Stark
"We have essentially no patents in SpaceX. Our primary long-term competition is in China," said Musk in the interview. "If we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book."
There are plenty of big holes in patent law — especially international patent law. And in some cases, they're totally bypassed anyway.
Thus, Musk's only option is to go with the trade secret route. That should end up working for a company like SpaceX, but as patent fights ramp up, something has to be done.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.sen.com/Uploads/misc/bigelow-ba330-cst-100-620px.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images.spaceref.com/news/2012/oodragonsplash.jpg)
