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On December 09 2010 08:10 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 07:44 Logo wrote:They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Ben Franklin It's ridiculous that the leakers are being blamed. If the politicians didn't commit and hide illegal or dubious activities in the first place we wouldn't be in this mess. Why everyone is quoting the same thing from BF over and over again? He said that in the XVIII-th century, things have changed since then. And essential liberty refers to the Bill of Rights in the US (the second amendment specifically), other countries have their own you know, and this quote can mean a lot of different things to different people. Edit: And how about giving up essential liberty for permanent safety? This seems fine with the quote.
Somehow I think permanent safety and modern politics don't really mix :-)
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Attacking MasterCard is liable to affect more so there innocent customers than the company itself. Crashing a website or accessing information illegally and redistributing it to the masses is what starts propositions to nullify internet privacy.
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On December 09 2010 08:01 Cammalleri wrote:thx, going into pc cafe to buy games right away.
I think this post really shows the attitude of some of the people in this thread, and the people behind attacking MC and Visa's websites. These companies, while maybe not doing something you agree with, are doing something in the best interests of their companies, and shareholders. What else should they do? It is illegal to do the opposite.
Also, posting random CC numbers is stealing from the little guy, from the public, from possibly the posters in this thread. How is that protecting Assange, or getting payback or whatever they claim they are doing.
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On December 09 2010 08:21 Saryph wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:01 Cammalleri wrote:thx, going into pc cafe to buy games right away. I think this post really shows the attitude of some of the people in this thread, and the people behind attacking MC and Visa's websites. These companies, while maybe not doing something you agree with, are doing something in the best interests of their companies, and shareholders. What else should they do? It is illegal to do the opposite. Also, posting random CC numbers is stealing from the little guy, from the public, from possibly the posters in this thread. How is that protecting Assange, or getting payback or whatever they claim they are doing.
would be funny if a poster tried to buy something with one of the cc #s listed only to find out it was his own.
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On December 09 2010 08:23 gostunv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:21 Saryph wrote:On December 09 2010 08:01 Cammalleri wrote:thx, going into pc cafe to buy games right away. I think this post really shows the attitude of some of the people in this thread, and the people behind attacking MC and Visa's websites. These companies, while maybe not doing something you agree with, are doing something in the best interests of their companies, and shareholders. What else should they do? It is illegal to do the opposite. Also, posting random CC numbers is stealing from the little guy, from the public, from possibly the posters in this thread. How is that protecting Assange, or getting payback or whatever they claim they are doing. would be funny if a poster tried to buy something with one of the cc #s listed only to find out it was his own.
I think it'd be a lot more amusing if all of the people caught illegally using the CC #s were charged and convicted of the appropriate crimes.
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On December 09 2010 08:06 Cammalleri wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:04 Sclol wrote:
their twitter and pastebin account has been deleted np i copyd em in .txt if some work, huge giveaway on steam games soon
You realize you are just stealing from most likely completely innocent people? I will refrain from hurling expletive insults at you. But really, people like you don't deserve to be a part of communities like TL and should be banned.
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Australia326 Posts
It's just childish behaviour, really. Nothing unexpected though, from a 'community' like 4chan. It's all well and fine to be an internet tough guy behind multiple proxies, but in real life, heh. Many of these internet vigilantes (which are engaging in a clearly illegal activity, by the way) are socially inept and don't contribute positively to society.
This is just another way of them trying to express themselves publicly and to gain attention, nothing more.
And I think what Wikileaks is doing is ridiculous. How they can claim that they are not endangering lives in the warzones is beyond me.
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On December 09 2010 08:21 Saryph wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:01 Cammalleri wrote:thx, going into pc cafe to buy games right away. I think this post really shows the attitude of some of the people in this thread, and the people behind attacking MC and Visa's websites. These companies, while maybe not doing something you agree with, are doing something in the best interests of their companies, and shareholders. What else should they do? It is illegal to do the opposite. Also, posting random CC numbers is stealing from the little guy, from the public, from possibly the posters in this thread. How is that protecting Assange, or getting payback or whatever they claim they are doing.
Managing public response is also something that any competent company should do. They completely underestimated the backlash that it would generate and now they are paying the price.
Stealing CC numbers actually does hurt the CC companies as well as the little guy. The consumers of those cards are not legally responsible for identity fraud and the CC companies are obligated to pay the charges.
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Notes as this turns into a flamewar.
The credit card numbers exposed are probably fake. They were discussing faking a reveal to give companies more bad press.
PayPal is proving extremely resilient to their efforts.
Small pockets of MasterCard are shut down, including the site. They are still figuring out if they're affecting VISA transactions. Most vendors are still able to execute transactions. This stunt, while deplorable, is doing very little direct damage. It's a very effective publicity stunt.
I understand where the people are coming from supporting Anon_Operation, even though I disagree with their methods. But the train wreck is still very big so I will pass the popcorn.
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On December 09 2010 08:31 sikyon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:21 Saryph wrote:On December 09 2010 08:01 Cammalleri wrote:thx, going into pc cafe to buy games right away. I think this post really shows the attitude of some of the people in this thread, and the people behind attacking MC and Visa's websites. These companies, while maybe not doing something you agree with, are doing something in the best interests of their companies, and shareholders. What else should they do? It is illegal to do the opposite. Also, posting random CC numbers is stealing from the little guy, from the public, from possibly the posters in this thread. How is that protecting Assange, or getting payback or whatever they claim they are doing. Managing public response is also something that any competent company should do. They completely underestimated the backlash that it would generate and now they are paying the price. Stealing CC numbers actually does hurt the CC companies as well as the little guy. The consumers of those cards are not legally responsible for identity fraud and the CC companies are obligated to pay the charges.
No, the Credit Card's insurance company will pay the massive volume of cash producing a hike in the MasterCard's insurance rate which will be reflected in increased interest rates and fees for consumers. There is obviously the reactionary choice to switch Credit Card companies but those in debt have no choice and this is hurting them more than anyone else. Especially if they end up being victims of CC # fraud.
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On December 09 2010 08:31 palookieblue wrote:
It's just childish behaviour, really. Nothing unexpected though, from a 'community' like 4chan. It's all well and fine to be an internet tough guy behind multiple proxies, but in real life, heh. Many of these internet vigilantes (which are engaging in a clearly illegal activity, by the way) are socially inept and don't contribute positively to society.
This is just another way of them trying to express themselves publicly and to gain attention, nothing more.
And I think what Wikileaks is doing is ridiculous. How they can claim that they are not endangering lives in the warzones is beyond me.
I don't know if you know this but a large portion of the world's GDP growth in the past 2 decades has come from the rise of the internet. I don't know what sort of point you are trying to make by insulting people you'll never meet in real life but to pretend that the internet is somehow unimportant is outright false.
There is always a tradeoff to be made in any situation. You may endanger lives to increase transparency of a process. You may pay more in taxes to have better security. You may have less rights for better security. You may allow someone to get tortured in a back room if it means finding a nuclear bomb. Every life has a price that can be tacked onto it from an objective perspective.
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On December 09 2010 08:35 CanadianStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:31 sikyon wrote:On December 09 2010 08:21 Saryph wrote:On December 09 2010 08:01 Cammalleri wrote:thx, going into pc cafe to buy games right away. I think this post really shows the attitude of some of the people in this thread, and the people behind attacking MC and Visa's websites. These companies, while maybe not doing something you agree with, are doing something in the best interests of their companies, and shareholders. What else should they do? It is illegal to do the opposite. Also, posting random CC numbers is stealing from the little guy, from the public, from possibly the posters in this thread. How is that protecting Assange, or getting payback or whatever they claim they are doing. Managing public response is also something that any competent company should do. They completely underestimated the backlash that it would generate and now they are paying the price. Stealing CC numbers actually does hurt the CC companies as well as the little guy. The consumers of those cards are not legally responsible for identity fraud and the CC companies are obligated to pay the charges. No, the Credit Card's insurance company will pay the massive volume of cash seeing a rake in the MasterCard's insurance rate which will be reflected in increased interest rates and fees for consumers. There is obviously the reactionary choice to switch Credit Card companies but those in debt have no choice and this is hurting them more than anyone else. Especially if they end up being victims of CC # fraud.
Were such rate increases not recently regulated by law?
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On December 09 2010 08:36 sikyon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:35 CanadianStarcraft wrote:On December 09 2010 08:31 sikyon wrote:On December 09 2010 08:21 Saryph wrote:On December 09 2010 08:01 Cammalleri wrote:thx, going into pc cafe to buy games right away. I think this post really shows the attitude of some of the people in this thread, and the people behind attacking MC and Visa's websites. These companies, while maybe not doing something you agree with, are doing something in the best interests of their companies, and shareholders. What else should they do? It is illegal to do the opposite. Also, posting random CC numbers is stealing from the little guy, from the public, from possibly the posters in this thread. How is that protecting Assange, or getting payback or whatever they claim they are doing. Managing public response is also something that any competent company should do. They completely underestimated the backlash that it would generate and now they are paying the price. Stealing CC numbers actually does hurt the CC companies as well as the little guy. The consumers of those cards are not legally responsible for identity fraud and the CC companies are obligated to pay the charges. No, the Credit Card's insurance company will pay the massive volume of cash seeing a rake in the MasterCard's insurance rate which will be reflected in increased interest rates and fees for consumers. There is obviously the reactionary choice to switch Credit Card companies but those in debt have no choice and this is hurting them more than anyone else. Especially if they end up being victims of CC # fraud. Were such rate increases not recently regulated by law?
Rate increases in relation to operating cost increases are completely legal. Only profit grabbing rate hikes are regulated.
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On December 09 2010 08:38 CanadianStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:36 sikyon wrote:On December 09 2010 08:35 CanadianStarcraft wrote:On December 09 2010 08:31 sikyon wrote:On December 09 2010 08:21 Saryph wrote:On December 09 2010 08:01 Cammalleri wrote:thx, going into pc cafe to buy games right away. I think this post really shows the attitude of some of the people in this thread, and the people behind attacking MC and Visa's websites. These companies, while maybe not doing something you agree with, are doing something in the best interests of their companies, and shareholders. What else should they do? It is illegal to do the opposite. Also, posting random CC numbers is stealing from the little guy, from the public, from possibly the posters in this thread. How is that protecting Assange, or getting payback or whatever they claim they are doing. Managing public response is also something that any competent company should do. They completely underestimated the backlash that it would generate and now they are paying the price. Stealing CC numbers actually does hurt the CC companies as well as the little guy. The consumers of those cards are not legally responsible for identity fraud and the CC companies are obligated to pay the charges. No, the Credit Card's insurance company will pay the massive volume of cash seeing a rake in the MasterCard's insurance rate which will be reflected in increased interest rates and fees for consumers. There is obviously the reactionary choice to switch Credit Card companies but those in debt have no choice and this is hurting them more than anyone else. Especially if they end up being victims of CC # fraud. Were such rate increases not recently regulated by law? Rate increases in relation to operating cost increases are completely legal. Only profit grabbing rate hikes are regulated.
I thought the recent law in the US prevented hikes on rates of existing debt? New debt can be taken out at your own decision.
Edit: from wikipedia card act article: "Gives cardholders the right to cancel their card and pay off their existing balance at the existing interest rate and repayment schedule if they get hit with an interest rate hike; gives cardholders 3 billing cycles after the rate increase to say no to these new terms."
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On December 09 2010 08:08 ayababa wrote:edit: im not the guy hes talking about re his q. Show nested quote +
On December 09 2010 00:13 Aim Here wrote:
Aim Here, I'd love if you responded to my post quoting yours, on page 2. Imagine some property (say, a small office building, or a company car) that is worth less to MasterCard than a few hours of uptime on mastercard.com. Would you also be in favor of 4chan blowing up that building, or torching that car?
(Note that the car/building hypo is favorable to you, because destruction of the car or office building wouldn't be as much harm to MC's customers as taking down mastercard.com)
AIM i think you are taking this WAAAAAAY out of context... like your needing to prove your point by exaggerating things here. Just because someone supports the fact the MC website went down doesn't mean they would want a building blown up? Stop assuming things.
He is trying to show that the people who do not support both may not be consistent in their beliefs and therefore should probably re-evaluate them.
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Unfortunately, the reality for a lot of people who are in debt is not a case of massive debt but consistent debt. This is to say there credit rating is poor and it would be difficult to get a different credit card or line of credit else where but they still need to be able use a credit card or line of credit for some level of what they deem essentials.
Regardless, a rate hike impacts the little guy, whether it be to force them out of there current credit company or suffering the hike... It is hurting them.
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On December 09 2010 08:31 sikyon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:21 Saryph wrote:On December 09 2010 08:01 Cammalleri wrote:thx, going into pc cafe to buy games right away. I think this post really shows the attitude of some of the people in this thread, and the people behind attacking MC and Visa's websites. These companies, while maybe not doing something you agree with, are doing something in the best interests of their companies, and shareholders. What else should they do? It is illegal to do the opposite. Also, posting random CC numbers is stealing from the little guy, from the public, from possibly the posters in this thread. How is that protecting Assange, or getting payback or whatever they claim they are doing. Managing public response is also something that any competent company should do. They completely underestimated the backlash that it would generate and now they are paying the price. Stealing CC numbers actually does hurt the CC companies as well as the little guy. The consumers of those cards are not legally responsible for identity fraud and the CC companies are obligated to pay the charges.
They're feeling the backlash of some angry anarchists, people with anti-American sentiment, and hackers/wannabe hackers (I will leave that fight to people who know more about that subject than me.) I think that most people on this site forget that this site is a specialized group, and their opinion does not necessarily represent the opinion of the majority.
Another thing that some people on this site might disagree with is that whether looking at a corporation or a government, there are things that are worthy of being kept secret from the general public, and from other countries. Though we might live in a world of people telling everyone through Facebook, a blog, or twitter about their trip to the bathroom to brush their teeth, large organizations do not work the same way.
Of course sometimes things are labeled classified or secret that might not deserve such a distinction, but that does not mean that it is necessarily the best idea to publish hundreds of thousands of documents that are of a sensitive nature. If there are gross violations of rules of engagement or law, such as abuses committed by soldiers, of course that should be dealt with, but of what relevance is a diplomat's opinion on another diplomat other than to satisfy our desire to feel like we're in the loop of something that has little relevance to us?
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On December 09 2010 08:29 cha0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:06 Cammalleri wrote:On December 09 2010 08:04 Sclol wrote:
their twitter and pastebin account has been deleted np i copyd em in .txt if some work, huge giveaway on steam games soon You realize you are just stealing from most likely completely innocent people? I will refrain from hurling expletive insults at you. But really, people like you don't deserve to be a part of communities like TL and should be banned.
You realize its the company's fault and they will pay it back if its true right ?. (and by they I mean usually insurances)
This could bring other issues, but youre making it look worse than it really is.
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On December 09 2010 08:29 cha0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 08:06 Cammalleri wrote:On December 09 2010 08:04 Sclol wrote:
their twitter and pastebin account has been deleted np i copyd em in .txt if some work, huge giveaway on steam games soon You realize you are just stealing from most likely completely innocent people? I will refrain from hurling expletive insults at you. But really, people like you don't deserve to be a part of communities like TL and should be banned.
Yes, ofc i would rather go to jail and have games, instead of not going to jail and have games, are you really that stupid?
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EPT
