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According to wikipedia, Germany's total military losses is at 5.5 million, 4.3 million of those are lost in eastern front. How would the war turn out had either USSR or USA stayed out of conflict? We will never know. But Soviet contribution to the war clearly dwarfs all other nations.
The problem is you're completely ignoring the African front which was fought against Mussolini, Italy. Yes you may be right that Russia did most of the job against Germany but victory in the western front wasn't completely sealed until the US/UK cut off the axis supply line, primarily oil.
I'm not going to say the US could have won without Russia, but it isn't fair to say that Russia could have won without the US either. If either party hadn't gotten involved the war could have turned out very differently.
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http://www.cbs.co.kr/nocut/show.asp?idx=1642854
LOL, the korean secretary of defense, in retort to criticism about the 13 minutes it took for s korea to retaliate, responded "real situation is not like starcraft, where you can shoot back instantly."
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I believe this is a sign that North Korea's collapse is near.
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I'm curious about what China's stance on this has been so far. How would they react to an escalation of the conflict?
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On November 24 2010 15:15 phosphorylation wrote:http://www.cbs.co.kr/nocut/show.asp?idx=1642854LOL, the korean secretary of defense, in retort to criticism about the 13 minutes it took for s korea to retaliate, responded "real situation is not like starcraft, where you can shoot back instantly."
Clearly the SoD didn't read the thread rules. :p
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--- I know it said no StarCraft jokes, and I normally wouldn't but here it is ---
A friend of mine who works for the Chosun Ilbo (Korean Newspaper) actually just sent me this and I thought it was fucking hilarious.
S Korean defense minister during a national assembly hearing on why the response was slow after the initial attack: "This isn't Starcraft."
EDIT: Ah dammit, someone beat me to it 
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I doubt China and other former allies of N Korea will support another war. The North has done nothing but damage its world relations in past decades while the South remains a close ally to the west. If a military conflict were to occur I expect a western coalition to be fighting against a lonely N Korea, much like Iraq in operation Desert Storm. In fact I would expect China to help topple N Korea so that they could use their influence to help set up the new government there. They would not fight against the US nor would they idly let the US have their way with east Asian political regimes.
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On November 24 2010 13:34 TwoPac wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 11:05 DannyJ wrote:On November 24 2010 10:16 TwoPac wrote:On November 24 2010 10:01 johanngrunt wrote:On November 24 2010 09:42 Frits wrote:
This is ridiculous, western society is built on morals and rights. If what you say is true we'd still be keeping slaves. Also, America did not win WW2, Russia did. Russia never would've pushed the Germans back without American and British Aid. Also America won in the pacific theatre and merely allowed Russia to make it Berlin first. Russia "won" the European theater, and essentially WW2, there is absolutely no denying that. America came in and cleaned up the easy bits. By "easy bits" you mean the Normandy Landings?
Well, compared to what the USSR had to fight through yeah. I am not saying that the Western allies didn't do anything but from all the stuff I have read(huge history nerd here) the USSR did a lot of the heavy lifting in WWII. Not to take anything from the accomplishments US soldiers soldiers did.
But it is a fact that by the time the Normandy landings happened the USSR was pushing back the German army, in a way the US hurried up because they didn't want the USSR to liberate too many countries.
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What do you mean aid to N. Korea? What aid did SK give before they stopped?
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Didn't South Korea send rice to North Korea in aid recently?
And this is how North says thank you...
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On November 24 2010 15:39 Deadlyhazard wrote:What do you mean aid to N. Korea? What aid did SK give before they stopped?
As far as i know, they REDUCED the aid but they have still been giving it to them.
And don't ask me, just trying to keep this thread somewhat updated with the news.
E: And news about cetizens wanting retaliation because of the attacks:
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2010/11/24/0200000000AEN20101124007000315.HTML
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To be perfectly honest and just wanting to give my two cents.
I think kim jon il is actually just looking for an excuse to be taken out of power. (Please let me explain)
If you think about it, Kim is only getting older and older. While all this is happening, time and time again he finds himself getting sick (unconfirmed reports of course). Now, the way I think of it is basically Kim Jon il is not wanting to give power to anybody else because he doesnt want anyone to run the country better than him. He wants to be known as the last NK ruler and would rather provoke the west (United States) to attack them and over throw the government than just hand it over.
Interesting perspective I think, would be cool if i was right and it was true!
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he ruled the country like shit, the only thing was that he made the ppl think he did otherwise. if he loses power and his control is relinquished all of n. korea would be open to know about the atrocities hes committed against them.
i wouldnt understand the point of leaving a legacy anyway, once ur dead it means shit squat
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On November 24 2010 15:46 Shelke14 wrote:
To be perfectly honest and just wanting to give my two cents.
I think kim jon il is actually just looking for an excuse to be taken out of power. (Please let me explain)
If you think about it, Kim is only getting older and older. While all this is happening, time and time again he finds himself getting sick (unconfirmed reports of course). Now, the way I think of it is basically Kim Jon il is not wanting to give power to anybody else because he doesnt want anyone to run the country better than him. He wants to be known as the last NK ruler and would rather provoke the west (United States) to attack them and over throw the government than just hand it over.
Interesting perspective I think, would be cool if i was right and it was true!
his son took over, didn't he?
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On November 24 2010 16:07 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 15:46 Shelke14 wrote:
To be perfectly honest and just wanting to give my two cents.
I think kim jon il is actually just looking for an excuse to be taken out of power. (Please let me explain)
If you think about it, Kim is only getting older and older. While all this is happening, time and time again he finds himself getting sick (unconfirmed reports of course). Now, the way I think of it is basically Kim Jon il is not wanting to give power to anybody else because he doesnt want anyone to run the country better than him. He wants to be known as the last NK ruler and would rather provoke the west (United States) to attack them and over throw the government than just hand it over.
Interesting perspective I think, would be cool if i was right and it was true! his son took over, didn't he?
Not yet. But planned to do so soon.
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So, is there any actual way to get NK to stop doing stuff like this, without losing all of Korea in a nuclear fireball, and without taking decades to change the regime of NK into one more friendly to the West?
If we invade, the regime topples quickly, but then the nukes come out. Sure they don't have ICBMs to hit Los Angeles, but they do have enough range on their missiles to carry the nuclear warheads to Japan and Seoul. We invade, they nuke their neighbors, everyone loses.
If we don't invade, NK will keep pushing the envelope because they know nobody will do anything about it. Then, we'd have to gradually shift the regime through political pressure into one that stops shelling civilians and sinking ships. However, this will take decades to accomplish.
So basically, theres no easy way out of this one, is there?
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It's so awesome how the South Korean SoD compared real life to starcraft 
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On November 24 2010 16:24 madcow305 wrote:
So, is there any actual way to get NK to stop doing stuff like this, without losing all of Korea in a nuclear fireball, and without taking decades to change the regime of NK into one more friendly to the West?
So basically, theres no easy way out of this one, is there?
North Korean Nuclear weapons are impractically large, atm. Saying NK has nukes is like saying I have a bolder in my back yard that I could use to crush you and your house. While it's technically true I have no way of picking up said bolder and crushing you & your house with it. It'll be at least another decade before they can deploy nuclear weapons in a realistic situation.
Basically, the window for an invasion without a nuclear counterattack still exists but it is short. Very short. Not that it matters since they still have enough conventional and chemical weapons to kill thousands, maybe millions, of South Koreans before we could stop them.
What does NK have that Iraq didn't? 10 Million hostages.
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On November 24 2010 15:46 Shelke14 wrote:
To be perfectly honest and just wanting to give my two cents.
I think kim jon il is actually just looking for an excuse to be taken out of power. (Please let me explain)
If you think about it, Kim is only getting older and older. While all this is happening, time and time again he finds himself getting sick (unconfirmed reports of course). Now, the way I think of it is basically Kim Jon il is not wanting to give power to anybody else because he doesnt want anyone to run the country better than him. He wants to be known as the last NK ruler and would rather provoke the west (United States) to attack them and over throw the government than just hand it over.
Interesting perspective I think, would be cool if i was right and it was true!
How would that be cool exactly? I'm pretty sure what would actually cool, would be reconciliation between North and South Korea. Demilitarization from NK and better living conditions/opportunities for it's people.
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EPT
