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On November 29 2010 14:14 Game wrote:
Meh. As you can see by my 300 posts, I'm ignorant to certain things. Was "Tytoso" banned for sourcing Fox News?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=32696¤tpage=456#9123
PBU = Previously banned user.
So he was banned because he made another account to circumvent the ban, which is against the rules in any case and had nothing to do with the content of his post.
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This is really sad, I hope that North Korea falls before they launch a nuke, if they do, it will be over for all of us, once the retailiation nukes are over other countries which don't have good relations with others assumptions are going to be made and we're all going to die. If it was up to me I'd send all the special forces in the world to destroy them from the inside and castrate their nukes so that S korea could finally just go over there and roll over there poor untrained soldiers.
I've read alot in this thread but i'm REALLLY thirsting for more Korean Input I see alot of people not from korea posting but I am HUNGrrryyy for some South Korean Input, besides Lil susie.
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This isn't BW buddy. You can't just drop his nuke facility then a-move your troops and steamroll NK into gg'ing. Simply put, I think more harm than good would come at the moment of just pulling the trigger on NK.
I think what the world is waiting for is an internal collapse of NK. This is pretty much happened in eastern europe a few decades ago w/ regard to stalinist socialism. It's bound to happen in NK eventually, and I'm pretty sure this is what the US/SK are waiting for before even thinking about possibilities of reunification. All this nuclear arms dismantling isn't aimed at reunification per se, but just an attempt to make them less of a potential threat while we're all waiting for them to crumble from the inside.
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I never said it was like brood war, that would be ridiculous and a ludicrous idea, as rts games and real life have nothing to do with each other. F.Y.I the strategy that I spoke of, that is of entering the opponents country and dismantling their nuclear powers and troop defense before they know what is going on is something that is not a game. It happened in Afghanistan and Iraq at the start of the war, many of the troops didn't know they were under attack until it was too late, I think it would be possible, if not even simpler to defeat a rusted and old force like North Korea with the current s. Korea/allies military training and the gigantic if not ridiculously huge gap in military intelligence. As far as ,"them to crumble from the inside", goes it could be a great many years until they fall, and that means a great many more deaths as well, seeing as that is how it had been in many other communist countries. If there was a proper invasion plan, this war would be over before anyone in North Korea would understand what was going on, I think this peaceful attitude is just really to save face. If there weren't already 2 wars going on with North America, the war would have already begun.
Best Wishes to all the families affected may god be with you.
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On November 29 2010 14:48 ReaverDrop! wrote:
This is really sad, I hope that North Korea falls before they launch a nuke, if they do, it will be over for all of us, once the retailiation nukes are over other countries which don't have good relations with others assumptions are going to be made and we're all going to die. If it was up to me I'd send all the special forces in the world to destroy them from the inside and castrate their nukes so that S korea could finally just go over there and roll over there poor untrained soldiers.
I've read alot in this thread but i'm REALLLY thirsting for more Korean Input I see alot of people not from korea posting but I am HUNGrrryyy for some South Korean Input, besides Lil susie.
I thought you read the thread?
Korea has nukes but they do not have the platform to launch those nukes around the world. Worst case scenario they level all of korea and Japan and some of china. No country is going to be like oh shit someones nuking something, fire all our shit at everyone else.
Untrained soldiers? These North Koreans live and breath war. Attacking North Korea a country that has been preparing for war for the last 50 years is going to be no easy task.
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On November 29 2010 15:48 ReaverDrop! wrote:
I never said it was like brood war, that would be ridiculous and a ludicrous idea, as rts games and real life have nothing to do with each other. F.Y.I the strategy that I spoke of, that is of entering the opponents country and dismantling their nuclear powers and troop defense before they know what is going on is something that is not a game. It happened in Afghanistan and Iraq at the start of the war, many of the troops didn't know they were under attack until it was too late, I think it would be possible, if not even simpler to defeat a rusted and old force like North Korea with the current s. Korea/allies military training and the gigantic if not ridiculously huge gap in military intelligence. As far as ,"them to crumble from the inside", goes it could be a great many years until they fall, and that means a great many more deaths as well, seeing as that is how it had been in many other communist countries. If there was a proper invasion plan, this war would be over before anyone in North Korea would understand what was going on, I think this peaceful attitude is just really to save face. If there weren't already 2 wars going on with North America, the war would have already begun.
Best Wishes to all the families affected may god be with you.
sounds like brood war to me.
do you realize that we were not fighting a heavily fortified army when we invaded iraq and afghanistan? do you really think that we could dismantle ALL possible nuclear capabilities of north korea before they "knew what hit them" seriously, an invasion of north korea would not be shock and awe 2.0
get a grip
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On November 29 2010 14:48 ReaverDrop! wrote:
This is really sad, I hope that North Korea falls before they launch a nuke, if they do, it will be over for all of us, once the retailiation nukes are over other countries which don't have good relations with others assumptions are going to be made and we're all going to die. If it was up to me I'd send all the special forces in the world to destroy them from the inside and castrate their nukes so that S korea could finally just go over there and roll over there poor untrained soldiers.
I've read alot in this thread but i'm REALLLY thirsting for more Korean Input I see alot of people not from korea posting but I am HUNGrrryyy for some South Korean Input, besides Lil susie.
you want a SK input?
Well simply put, majority of sk people want action
not war, they want Nk to apologize and leave sk alone. They are sick and tired of the bullshit coming from north korea
sk had to put up with countless assasination attempts, kidnapping, threats, the 'axe incident', airplane bombing, the boat incident etc etc
South Korea has given them food, went on their knees and sucked NK's nuts for a long time. Ever since the shelling everybody in South Korea has been pissed off. Fortunately our current president isnt a pussy and even he wants something done
everyone is just sick and tired of nk.
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On November 29 2010 16:24 MrHoon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 14:48 ReaverDrop! wrote:
This is really sad, I hope that North Korea falls before they launch a nuke, if they do, it will be over for all of us, once the retailiation nukes are over other countries which don't have good relations with others assumptions are going to be made and we're all going to die. If it was up to me I'd send all the special forces in the world to destroy them from the inside and castrate their nukes so that S korea could finally just go over there and roll over there poor untrained soldiers.
I've read alot in this thread but i'm REALLLY thirsting for more Korean Input I see alot of people not from korea posting but I am HUNGrrryyy for some South Korean Input, besides Lil susie. you want a SK input? Well simply put, majority of sk people want action not war, they want Nk to apologize and leave sk alone. They are sick and tired of the bullshit coming from north korea sk had to put up with countless assasination attempts, kidnapping, threats, the 'axe incident', airplane bombing, the boat incident etc etc
Yeah, not gonna happen. In fact it's highly probable that it'll only get worse.
On November 29 2010 16:24 MrHoon wrote:
South Korea has given them food, went on their knees and sucked NK's nuts for a long time. Ever since the shelling everybody in South Korea has been pissed off. Fortunately our current president isnt a pussy and even he wants something done
everyone is just sick and tired of nk.
That sunshine policy by the two previous presidents was the dumbest thing ever in my opinion, it was basically appeasement nothing more. Kind of glad they're both dead.
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ok, alot of people in this thread seem to have the mentality that America is this awe inspiring unstoppable might of military power and they can lay waste to any and every country if they wanted to do so.
this BS thinking has to stop as it is idiotic. the US cant just do w/e the hell they want and they certainly arnt unstoppable. i know alot of Americans love to believe this, but its time to to snap to reality. we CAN NOT go into a war without any repercussions to our country. you people need to get this in your heads and get rid of the mentality that America is God of the world.
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On November 29 2010 14:48 ReaverDrop! wrote:
This is really sad, I hope that North Korea falls before they launch a nuke, if they do, it will be over for all of us, once the retailiation nukes are over other countries which don't have good relations with others assumptions are going to be made and we're all going to die. If it was up to me I'd send all the special forces in the world to destroy them from the inside and castrate their nukes so that S korea could finally just go over there and roll over there poor untrained soldiers.
I've read alot in this thread but i'm REALLLY thirsting for more Korean Input I see alot of people not from korea posting but I am HUNGrrryyy for some South Korean Input, besides Lil susie.
I really wouldn't worry about Korean Nukes. A "nuclear" test and a weaponized nuke are VERY different things. First off, the "nuke" the Koreans detonated was a 2 kilo detonation, IE it was far weaker than Hiroshima. Also, in order to deliver their nuke, they would need to send a fairly large bomber--because their weaponization is not advanced enough to mount even their weak nuke on a missile system.
The biggest threat with Korea's nuclear "arsenal" would be if they chose to use them on land forces invading NK. I seriously doubt they could reliably deliver one south of the border.
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On November 29 2010 17:28 Ballistixz wrote:
ok, alot of people in this thread seem to have the mentality that America is this awe inspiring unstoppable might of military power and they can lay waste to any and every country if they wanted to do so.
this BS thinking has to stop as it is idiotic. the US cant just do w/e the hell they want and they certainly arnt unstoppable. i know alot of Americans love to believe this, but its time to to snap to reality. we CAN NOT go into a war without any repercussions to our country. you people need to get this in your heads and get rid of the mentality that America is God of the world.
I don't think people have that notion that the US is god or indestructible in war... but we are the worlds foremost military power. This isn't really some debatable topic. But we most definitely could destroy North Korea should it come to that. However, this has little to do with the US... well, about as little to do with the US as is possible in the global world with regards to an ally.
Also, I doubt you'd find anybody with, oh, above an 8th grade education who doesn't understand the costs of war go beyond that of a body count for US soldiers.
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On November 29 2010 17:39 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 17:28 Ballistixz wrote:
ok, alot of people in this thread seem to have the mentality that America is this awe inspiring unstoppable might of military power and they can lay waste to any and every country if they wanted to do so.
this BS thinking has to stop as it is idiotic. the US cant just do w/e the hell they want and they certainly arnt unstoppable. i know alot of Americans love to believe this, but its time to to snap to reality. we CAN NOT go into a war without any repercussions to our country. you people need to get this in your heads and get rid of the mentality that America is God of the world. I don't think people have that notion that the US is god or indestructible in war... but we are the worlds foremost military power. This isn't really some debatable topic. But we most definitely could destroy North Korea should it come to that. However, this has little to do with the US... well, about as little to do with the US as is possible in the global world with regards to an ally. Also, I doubt you'd find anybody with, oh, above an 8th grade education who doesn't understand the costs of war go beyond that of a body count for US soldiers.
my post was mainly in response to the people that are saying "lets just invade them and this shit will be over in 2 days max" or "just nuke them". those kinds of posts.
i know our country has one of the most powerful military in the world, but we cant just do w/e we want.
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Untrained soldiers? These North Koreans live and breath war. Attacking North Korea a country that has been preparing for war for the last 50 years is going to be no easy task.
Huh?
Korean soldiers on the DMZ have to be kept in pairs because the urge to defect is so rampant among them. In order to get stationed on the DMZ, the NK soldier has to have his family move into the capital so they can be monitored by the government. Even with the threat of their entire families being killed, they still try to defect.
The average North Korean is almost 7 inches shorter than his South Korean counterpart and weighs a ton less. They have an entire generation of stunted soldiers because of severe malnourishment and inability to provide basic food to their armed forces, even as their armed forces sit INSIDE the borders of their own country. When you have logistical problems supplying your army food from within your own country, that is a BAD thing.
Look at this report.
Some tapes are smuggled out of NK. Look at the people, even the police officer is malnourished (And the police/army is given the most rations). Training and weapons only go so far is the morale of your forces is absolutely in the gutter. A Korean war won't be easy, it will be a blood bath--but the reasons for that are not because the U.S. and SK are facing hardened, blood thirsty dogs of war.
The reason is because the guerrilla fighting in the mountain and jungle areas of Korea will be more akin to Vietnam than a more open country like Iraq. The country is very very friendly to guerrilla tactics and even though a bulk of the Korean army probably isn't in any kind of shape to fight a full scale war, only small handfuls of men would be needed to make the war bloody and long.
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Ballistixz judging by the things you write, and the way in which you do so I wouldn't put you above 15. Lithose can you source that 7 inch differentiation statement please? While North Koreans are starving... 7 inches is pretty insane. I can visualize it being a white American and standing next to a Mexican, but I can't visualize going from Florida to Georgia and everyone in Georgia is over half a foot smaller than me.
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On November 29 2010 18:00 Game wrote:
Ballistixz judging by the things you write, and the way in which you do so I wouldn't put you above 15. Lithose can you source that 7 inch differentiation statement please? While North Koreans are starving... 7 inches is pretty insane. I can visualize it being a white American and standing next to a Mexican, but I can't visualize going from Florida to Georgia and everyone in Georgia is over half a foot smaller than me.
Actually that 7 inches thing is pretty true, I'll try to find a source for it for him
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Lithose is correct, the idea of defecting is something alot of nkoreans dream of
although we are told the majority of nk people are brainwashed zombies, they infact arent. They're just playing this 'game' to survive. You know those videos of nk people crying in front of Kim Jong Ils photo saying how he's their savior? Theyre all actors trying to make days ends for his/her family. More and more north koreans are realizing whats going on ever since the olympics and asian games. When millions and millions are starving and your leader tells says 'we're so happy', you dont need to be an idiot to realize otherwise.
If a war does break out, a believe a large sect of nks will defect to the south korean side
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I don't want to see America get involved with another war. But I'm also not comfortable with the $1 Billion in food aid we've delivered in failed attempts to appease NKR and get them to negotiate, mostly because it is rewarding (and perpetuating) severe crimes vs humanity with respect to the people of NKR.
I still think we should quit trying to negotiate directly with the government and simply lift sanctions to destabilize the political status quo within NKR's internal politics.
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On November 29 2010 18:00 Game wrote:
Ballistixz judging by the things you write, and the way in which you do so I wouldn't put you above 15. Lithose can you source that 7 inch differentiation statement please? While North Koreans are starving... 7 inches is pretty insane. I can visualize it being a white American and standing next to a Mexican, but I can't visualize going from Florida to Georgia and everyone in Georgia is over half a foot smaller than me.
Height and weight differences between North and South Korea by Daniel Schwekendiek.
It's not 7 inches, I converted the metric system wrong, it's 4-5 inches. (Didn't stop to think about it as I typed, it's pretty late, heh.)
There are two sets of data he uses.
The first set is from 2002, the last year aid was allowed into the country. It showed that the typical North Korean child was a full 5 inches shorter than his South Korean counterpart.
The second study was done in 2006 on 1100 defectors from North Korea (Mostly army, so they were actually better fed.)...The Average male between 20-40 was 4 inches shorter and the average female is 3 inches shorter..They were severely malnourished and came in like 15% underweight by comparison to what a healthy weight for their height should be.
Terrifying how bad the food supply is over there. It's only rivaled by some African nations like Somalia ect.
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Are we still prohibited from StarCraft jokes, considering the former Secretary of Defense brought StarCraft into the discussion? ]:
On November 29 2010 18:04 MrHoon wrote:
Lithose is correct, the idea of defecting is something alot of nkoreans dream of
although we are told the majority of nk people are brainwashed zombies, they infact arent. They're just playing this 'game' to survive. You know those videos of nk people crying in front of Kim Jong Ils photo saying how he's their savior? Theyre all actors trying to make days ends for his/her family. More and more north koreans are realizing whats going on ever since the olympics and asian games. When millions and millions are starving and your leader tells says 'we're so happy', you dont need to be an idiot to realize otherwise.
If a war does break out, a believe a large sect of nks will defect to the south korean side
I don't know.. I would think they'd expect that reaction, and have safeguards against it.
Also, even if the majority is aware, if they're being told that South Korea attacked them first, and that the evil United States is backing them because that's what evil Americans do.. they're also probably being told that due to the "war" SKs are shooting any NK defectors on sight, etc.
Although you are correct; defecting would be a dream come true for many NKs. Thus why there's so many NKs who attempt to escape to China (see: the "Free North Korean Refuges in China"/"Let My People Go" efforts).
On November 29 2010 17:49 Lithose wrote:
The reason is because the guerrilla fighting in the mountain and jungle areas of Korea will be more akin to Vietnam than a more open country like Iraq. The country is very very friendly to guerrilla tactics and even though a bulk of the Korean army probably isn't in any kind of shape to fight a full scale war, only small handfuls of men would be needed to make the war bloody and long.
This right here is why I don't think America is going to get involved if actual "conventional" war involving troops breaks out. Nobody wants another Vietnam. "Fighting a land war in Asia" is now a popular synonym for "doing something ridiculously stupid."
And yet we can't just nuke the place.. gahhh so complicated. If war does break out, America will probably be supporting SK only monetarily. Which is funny because that means it's China supporting SK monetarily, since China pretty much owns our money by now.
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On November 29 2010 17:49 Lithose wrote:
The reason is because the guerrilla fighting in the mountain and jungle areas of Korea will be more skin to Vietnam than a more open country like Iraq. The country is very very friendly to guerrilla tactics and even though a bulk of the Korean army probably isn't in any kind of shape to fight a full scale war, only small handfuls of men would be needed to make the war bloody and long.
To be honest, I think that any sort of guerrilla war in North Korea would die out really, really quickly. Guerrilla warfare does not require much in terms of arms or equipment or even food. Instead, successful Guerrilla warfare draws its strength from an incredibly-large demand for opposition.
In the case of an attack on North Korea due to North Korean aggression, such demand would probably be insufficient to start any sort of meaningful resistance movement. Unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, two countries that have a very good reason to have beef against the United States of America, North Korea simply...doesn't.
Having an American or South Korean or even Chinese division march through a NK town would probably quintuple said town's income overnight due to humanitarian goods and services. Exposure to the rest of the world due to broken borders would allow the vast majority of North Koreans to figure out just how much they've been missing out on. Economic restructuring (seriously, there is pretty much no way to screw up NK's economy even more) and humanitarian aid after an official military victory would cause North Korean living conditions to skyrocket. It's hard to keep any degree of fanaticism during high economic growth...even postwar Japan couldn't.
Seriously, most North Koreans are literally starving. Not difficult to build a ton of appreciation. Iraqis were outraged over inefficient structuring and crony capitalism after US victory, but even the worst of the business offenses in Iraq would probably be appreciated in North Korea, that's how bad it is.
Plus, there would be at least three 1st-world powers pouring money in. And every single one of those powers would want stability.
And, also unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, North Koreans can identify with their former enemies, South Koreans. South Koreans aren't infidels from across the sea, they're, in many cases, literally family. Quite a few people have been trying to meet family members trapped across the border for...well, decades, now. And, once again unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, post-war plans have been going on and off for the last half century.
Simply put, domestic advances due to a Coalition victory would create considerable gains for the North Korean populace, resulting in insufficient demand for large insurgencies. Plus, the planning's much better.
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EPT
