|
On October 16 2010 04:33 trevf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 03:58 xDaunt wrote:On October 16 2010 03:51 phyren wrote:
And the "hyper-partisan" nature of things has nothing to do with republicans. It's not like they make shit up about him and then repeat it despite simple and abundant proof to the contrary. It's not like congress is unable to pass even universally appealing bills like health care for 9/11 rescue workers suffering due to the risks they took in helping people on 9/11. No, it's really all Obama's fault that the roads aren't yet paved with gold, because the president has complete and total power over the government. Correct, the hyper-partisanship has almost nothing to do with the republicans. Obama had a large majority in the House and a super-majority in the senate. He could have passed anything he wanted if he simply threw republicans a bone here and there in the bills. He refused to do that. Is it any surprise that he received no support from republicans? You don't get people to vote for things unless you offer some incentive. It's pretty simple. Obama said he was open to tort reform if republicans would be willing to be flexible on some issues and republicans laughed in his face. xDaunt with his, 'oh my gosh my health insurance went up' as if it wasn't sky rocketing before the bill as well. Many of these rate hikes are being denied by state judges because they are unjustified. Health insurers are still making record profits and hiking their rates at the same time. Why? so they can fool morons like xDaunt into believing that its the fault of th ehealth care bill. The Chamber of Commerce, Fox News, and the Koch brothers will be the downfall of America.
I call BS on the tort reform offer. No democrat will ever agree to tort reform. The trial lawyers own the democrats. I can't even begin to tell you how much money is at stake with tort reform. I know because I am a trial lawyer.
Have you missed all of the newstories about American companies applying for waivers to be exempt from the health care bill requirements next year? Did you not hear about what McDonald's said? There is no one who understands Obamacare that is saying that Obamacare will not cause increased prices and more limited access.
|
There is no one who understands Obamacare that is saying that Obamacare will not cause increased prices and more limited access.
Obama is so awesome, he alone can break the rules of economics.
All the nation has to do is say "hope and change" three times, and it will happen.
|
xDaunt is filling this thread with lies.
First of all, the president does not have control over details of congressional bills. He could not have "thrown the Republicans a bone" with regard to the health insurance bill. The Dems in congress actually made tremendous sacrifices to appease Republicans and conservative Dems. Republicans were never going to support it anyway. In the end we got a legislation that helps the most needy but fails to sufficiently punish greedy insurance companies and provide health care for the poor and lower middle class.
Obama's approval rating has fallen just like every other president's rating falls after being in office for a little while as the voters' hopes are crushed. Notice how dismal George W. Bush's ratings were. He saw a brief peak after Sept. 11, 2001, but he quickly squandered that support by making destructive policy decisions.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/presidential-approval-tracker.htm
|
The reason people like her win is not because people actually support everything she stands for. Its just that they are SO FARKING TIRED of the politicians these days that they just want to get all the old, greedy, useless farts and corporation bought spineless pinheads out, whatever the cost. I know, I kind of agree with them. I wouldn't vote for her just because she has no qualifications, but I'm glad to see someone stand up for what they think is right instead of this political bs where they really stand for nothing but a fatter wallet and support whoever makes it thicker.
|
On October 16 2010 04:40 Zealotdriver wrote:xDaunt is filling this thread with lies. First of all, the president does not have control over details of congressional bills. He could not have "thrown the Republicans a bone" with regard to the health insurance bill. The Dems in congress actually made tremendous sacrifices to appease Republicans and conservative Dems. Republicans were never going to support it anyway. In the end we got a legislation that helps the most needy but fails to sufficiently punish greedy insurance companies and provide health care for the poor and lower middle class. Obama's approval rating has fallen just like every other president's rating falls after being in office for a little while as the voters' hopes are crushed. Notice how dismal George W. Bush's ratings were. He saw a brief peak after Sept. 11, 2001, but he quickly squandered that support by making destructive policy decisions. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/presidential-approval-tracker.htm
So what, you finished high school civics and now you think that you know how Washington works? Presidents write bills for congressional consideration and approval ALL OF THE TIME. In fact, Congress usually does not write the bills that it passes. Lobbyists do.
The democrats did not make any meaningful effort to get republican input on the health care bill. It was written behind closed doors by democrats (or democrat lobbyists). Republicans were not involved, period. Why weren't they involved? For one, Obama and the democrats didn't need them because of the large majorities that they had in congress. All of the "concessions" that were put into the bills were put in there for other democrats. Secondly, Republicans have completely different ideas for reforming health care, none of which the Democrats are particularly interested in.
|
Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
Democratic Party Campaign Strategy 1971 - ...
Daunt, didn't The Apollo Project write the healthcare bill? Or was it some other liberal group like The Tides Foundation?
|
On October 16 2010 03:37 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 23:58 Ferrose wrote:
People just aren't informed. Most of the people who oppose the health care bill are just people who watch Fox and believe that shit. I bet that all these people like Palin and Glenn Beck know that what they say is huge BS, but the viewers are just scared. It's sad that people like Beck can make all this money by capitalizing on people's fear.
Hrm. I seem to recall opponents of the health care bill saying that premiums would increase greatly if the bill was passed. I also seem to recall opponents saying that the health care bill would further reduce services covered by insurance. I don't know whether you pay for your health insurance or see your bills, but I do and I'll tell you this: the opponents were right. There's a reason why an overwhelming percentage of the population wants the health care bill repealed. It's a piece of garbage that wrecks far more than it fixes.
I've never heard those people. The only ones I've seen are the idiots who claim it calls for death panels and shit.
And yeah, I don't pay for my insurance.
|
On October 16 2010 04:59 Ferrose wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 03:37 xDaunt wrote:On October 15 2010 23:58 Ferrose wrote:
People just aren't informed. Most of the people who oppose the health care bill are just people who watch Fox and believe that shit. I bet that all these people like Palin and Glenn Beck know that what they say is huge BS, but the viewers are just scared. It's sad that people like Beck can make all this money by capitalizing on people's fear.
Hrm. I seem to recall opponents of the health care bill saying that premiums would increase greatly if the bill was passed. I also seem to recall opponents saying that the health care bill would further reduce services covered by insurance. I don't know whether you pay for your health insurance or see your bills, but I do and I'll tell you this: the opponents were right. There's a reason why an overwhelming percentage of the population wants the health care bill repealed. It's a piece of garbage that wrecks far more than it fixes. I've never heard those people. The only ones I've seen are the idiots who claim it calls for death panels and shit. And yeah, I don't pay for my insurance.
Hate to break it to you, but the provisions within the bill that concern rationing basically are the "death panels" that Palin referred to.
|
On October 16 2010 04:54 Scruffy wrote:
Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
Democratic Party Campaign Strategy 1971 - ...
Daunt, didn't The Apollo Project write the healthcare bill? Or was it some other liberal group like The Tides Foundation?
I don't know who wrote it, but I doubt that a bill that big can be attributed to just one person or group.
|
There is no one who understands Obamacare that is saying that Obamacare will not cause increased prices and more limited access.
You mean there are people who understand that 2000 page piece of legislation... I highly doubt this. Regardless, people need to stop freaking out about these political races. Moving to Canada is not a realistic option...unless you think that the world will end if the GOP or Dems control too much of government. Honestly, one candidate or another, unless you live in that state, you probably should chill out.
Furthermore, there are much more important aspects of party members than the issues many people have with the tea party candidates. Ask yourself, will there really be a bill passed restricting masturbation? Probably not, will there be a bill increasing taxes and government spending, defiantly.
Lots of people get hung up on personal views of candidates that seem extreme, but they never ask themselves, how will this affect the governing power of the candidate. The argument can be made that if person A believes B it is likely that person A will also believe C. But such assumptions are dangerous and often wrong.
Evaluate Candidates on their fundamentals, ie: role of government, Foreign policy, and responsibility of power, the rest is usually unimportant.
|
On October 16 2010 05:13 Checkov wrote:Show nested quote +There is no one who understands Obamacare that is saying that Obamacare will not cause increased prices and more limited access. You mean there are people who understand that 2000 page piece of legislation... I highly doubt this.
This is true to an extent. It's very difficult to predict precisely what Obamacare is going to do because most of its substance is going to be created administratively over the next few years. However, there really isn't any debate over whether it will increase prices and reduce access.
|
On October 16 2010 04:46 Sm3agol wrote:
The reason people like her win is not because people actually support everything she stands for. Its just that they are SO FARKING TIRED of the politicians these days that they just want to get all the old, greedy, useless farts and corporation bought spineless pinheads out, whatever the cost. I know, I kind of agree with them. I wouldn't vote for her just because she has no qualifications, but I'm glad to see someone stand up for what they think is right instead of this political bs where they really stand for nothing but a fatter wallet and support whoever makes it thicker.
The dirty little secret is anyone capable of becoming a candidate for the big 2 parties is exactly the type of person you are SO FARKING TIRED of.
It is not possible for a true non-politician to get elected any more for a federal position unless they're an actor. (and yes, pro wrestling counts as acting)
|
just i question i'd like to ask since i really don't get everything what you are saying ... i'm reading that stuff very interested and try to get a glimpse of what is going on there but why are people so angry about that health care stuff? i mean ... or health care system is probably three times that expensive for the state but its the status quo for decades
I'd also like to state something that is concerning me in germany too. People recently seem to expect big changes within a few months. I mean if you want to live in china or something (which i doubt you are dreaming of) you have to face one thing: democracy means discussion and longer, slower decision and law making processes ... nothing can be done overnight not even by Obama. Quick changes are trademarks of authocratic regimes not democracies. I guess we ALL except a little to much from our governments.
I cannot really comment on every single decision he made since iam not reading american newspapers but ... the difference in america's perception over the world atleast in europe changed dramatically. I'll try to say this in a non-offending way but i know that american's usually give a shit of what other countries, even their allies, think of them BUT you really really should have felt that anti-american HATE that was going on here during the Bush administration especially with younger people. Was quiet concerned ... with Obama that changed practically over night. We got closer again, which i really liked. Seeing masses of germans attending and cheering for him on his first speech in germany kinda gave that Kennedy feeling back ... where we were actually allies and not fighting against each other over economic supremecy while china defeats us all ... Bush only was interested in Europe as a Slave ... not as a partner
Most people here also envy america for having Obama because especially in germany politicans are usually boring, ugly and completly without passion. Seeing that guy fighting with such a passion inflamed the demand for similar politicians in germany ... maybe thats why many still hold him like some sort of a messiah which of course is just unfair. The expectations were just FAR to high for a living person ...
|
On October 16 2010 05:43 JoelB wrote:
Most people here also envy america for having Obama because especially in germany politicans are usually boring, ugly and completly without passion. Seeing that guy fighting with such a passion inflamed the demand for similar politicians in germany ... maybe thats why many still hold him like some sort of a messiah which of course is just unfair. The expectations were just FAR to
high for a living person ...
Obama brought the unfair expectations upon himself. When you speak like a messiah and make promises like a messiah, you better damn well be the messiah when you enter office. Obama played his messianic status up and now he's failing to deliver. He had every advanage going for him when he entered office: a friendly media that wanted him to succeed, large congressional majorities, and tremendous good will from the American people. He has squandered all of it and may very well be remembered like Jimmy Carter: one of the worst presidents of all time.
Don't regret not having Obama in Germany. He's all talk, no substance.
|
How many parties are in the US ?
besides the republican / democratics / tea party ?
if its only those 3 then it was freaking obvious that it would get some votes from people who are tired of being republicans or democratic.
Most of the countries have many parties, left, VERY left, center left, center, center right, VERY RIGHT, Green (sort of center), and independent parties.
Being democratic or republican is just stupid...
Chris Rock already said it... you can't be only republican or only democratic.
|
On October 16 2010 06:10 Drakan wrote:
How many parties are in the US ?
besides the republican / democratics / tea party ?
if its only those 3 then it was freaking obvious that it would get some votes from people who are tired of being republicans or democratic.
Most of the countries have many parties, left, VERY left, center left, center, center right, VERY RIGHT, Green (sort of center), and independent parties.
Being democratic or republican is just stupid...
Chris Rock already said it... you can't be only republican or only democratic.
I wouldn't call the Tea Party an official party. More like a movement. The vast movement of Americans call themselves "Independent", meaning that they vote both tickets instead of just one, and base their vote more along the individuals themselves. Libertarians are quite popular too, but not enough to become a third party. Libertarians tend to vote more for conservatives while the Green Party folks will vote for more liberal candidates.
|
On October 16 2010 06:10 Drakan wrote:
How many parties are in the US ?
besides the republican / democratics / tea party ?
if its only those 3 then it was freaking obvious that it would get some votes from people who are tired of being republicans or democratic.
Most of the countries have many parties, left, VERY left, center left, center, center right, VERY RIGHT, Green (sort of center), and independent parties.
Being democratic or republican is just stupid...
Chris Rock already said it... you can't be only republican or only democratic.
There are a lot of parties, everything from libertertarians, to communists, to the green party. However, none of those parties are particularly influential. The only two parties that hold office (with some minor exceptions) are the republicans and democrats.
Within the democratic and republican parties are varying degrees of conservatives and liberals. The "tea party" is not a political party. Rather, it's a conservative political movement that is largely within the republican party (it includes a lot of independents as well).
|
just found that ... probably old but still kinda funny and true 
+ Show Spoiler +
seriously ... seeing this discussion in america about if health care is something good or bad for me feels like discussing if policemen are needed or not ... its so f***in obvious that it i still wonder how someone can argue against it but i still don't know how that law actually is constructed ... heared some stuff about in the news but they left out the important parts
|
On October 16 2010 06:15 Scruffy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 06:10 Drakan wrote:
How many parties are in the US ?
besides the republican / democratics / tea party ?
if its only those 3 then it was freaking obvious that it would get some votes from people who are tired of being republicans or democratic.
Most of the countries have many parties, left, VERY left, center left, center, center right, VERY RIGHT, Green (sort of center), and independent parties.
Being democratic or republican is just stupid...
Chris Rock already said it... you can't be only republican or only democratic. I wouldn't call the Tea Party an official party. More like a movement. The vast movement of Americans call themselves "Independent", meaning that they vote both tickets instead of just one, and base their vote more along the individuals themselves. Libertarians are quite popular too, but not enough to become a third party. Libertarians tend to vote more for conservatives while the Green Party folks will vote for more liberal candidates.
Oh i see.. and when running for president, how many candidates are ?
Thanks for the answer! I only have a small ammount of knowledge about US Politics and I really disagree with it because as far as i know you guys don't count every single vote.
In chile a president can be elected because 1 single person... 50.333 to 50.334.
And i see that many of this parties tend to go for 1 common candidate instead of having their own candidate for president
|
I love all the douches bashing Obama. Its the same tired bullshit over and over again, a candidate says he's going to do all this crap (ITS ALWAYS more than they actually can, or that people deep down actually believe) and the bipartisan completely illogical nature of our politics makes it so he can't do anything.
This phenomenon is completely independent of parties, its the same for both democratic and republican candidates.
xDaunt says that Jimmy Carter is the worst president of all time.
I say George Bush was the worst president of all time.
Guess what? They're both equally valid statements. Because in politics nothing is based off logic or off of evidence, its based on people's opinions and self interest, and what they're parents told them. Honestly xDaunt how can you really say that the next presidential candidate is is going to be better? If he is republican all the republican's are going to say "This is who we needed the whole, time" If he is democratic all the republicans will say "This guys is a retard I'm not going to agree with anything he says." And vice versa. It's really simple.
It seems there is no rhyme or reason that people actually disagree with each other, if one side presents evidence the other side presents counter evidence (even if they are completely contradictory, which science tells us no pieces of evidence can be completely contradictory and both valid) and nothing gets done. Its really irritating.
Though if you want my opinion its this: I refuse to support any candidate who puts any baseless restrictions on scientific research. Oddly enough (not really) it's always republicans who fit this trend, thus I'm democratic. (Restricitng stem cell research?? Really!?! How fucking moronic are you?) Also republicans and there supporters tend to be religious nuts for some reason.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
