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What is a PhD? - Page 21

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sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
September 07 2013 03:31 GMT
#401
or, you know, because you are interested in stuff
shikata ga nai
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
September 07 2013 03:45 GMT
#402
On September 07 2013 10:40 stuneedsfood wrote:
Almost everybody, this thread included, gets a Ph.D to validate they're otherwise meaningless existence and to give them a higher position to shit on those with less education than themselves.

When you're done, try to be less of a dick than most others who get one. Knowing a shit-ton about some stupidly precise subject does not make you as special as you think, and your precious discoveries are not going to be of any use, to anyone, ever. It just makes you feel good about yourself.

I have a Ph.D.

This is what's known as "projection" in psychology, when you place your own issues onto others
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-07 08:17:04
September 07 2013 08:11 GMT
#403
On September 07 2013 12:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 10:40 stuneedsfood wrote:
Almost everybody, this thread included, gets a Ph.D to validate they're otherwise meaningless existence and to give them a higher position to shit on those with less education than themselves.


Or to teach at the university level, where a doctorate is preferred by many colleges... >.>

No, no, you don't get it, we do it to shit on people.

Edit:
And btw, I think a lot of PhD candidates ask themselves if doing a PhD isn't precisely the thing that is making their life meaningless. Like Belarius put it nicely:

On September 07 2013 05:06 Belisarius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 04:34 GhastlyUprising wrote:
On September 07 2013 03:30 Subversive wrote:
On September 07 2013 03:02 GhastlyUprising wrote:
On September 07 2013 02:54 sam!zdat wrote:
you're not really helping your case bro, you just sound defensive.
Just read Ender's post again. Imagine if you or any normal human being had to put up with that level of profound condescension. Would you get "defensive"?

(No more derail from me. This will be my last post on the subject.)

Profound condescension? I'm not seeing it. Maybe he's just giving general advice and isn't aware of your situation. He's trying to be helpful, not a prick. Just assume a benign tolerance if he's getting everything wrong in his assumptions as they pertain to you.
If he was so concerned about intervening on my behalf, you'd imagine he would have bothered to skim a few of my various posts in the thread or at least would have taken a few moments to wonder whether I'm not a complete idiot, and might have given some thought to this matter, before he wrote all those dubious and self-serving statements.

I was too prickly toward one other guy, who turned out to be really nice and offered numerous helpful comments. On Ender we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Okay...this is REALLY my last post on the subject. Sorry for the derail, all.


Believe me, the first lesson anyone doing a PhD learns is that their work is of questionable value, questionable quality and is questionably funded. I've learned it, and am still learning it. I'm fairly sure everyone here who has one will have learned it as well.

A PhD teaches you, first and foremost, how to fail. That is a hard lesson, and you might need to make some adjustments to the way you respond to criticism if you want to try it.

EDIT: + Show Spoiler +
and that was my 2k. Good....

phar
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1080 Posts
September 07 2013 08:19 GMT
#404
On September 07 2013 09:53 Alex1Sun wrote:
Doing PhD is a great way to not have a paying job. Most importantly not having a paying job usually continues after PhD is granted, often for many years

On the brighter side PhDs are among the most valuable members of our society, because they are the ones who expand our understanding of the universe and make life better for future generations =)

Like undergrad degrees, this depends entirely on what field you have a PhD in.
Who after all is today speaking about the destruction of the Armenians?
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
September 07 2013 08:26 GMT
#405
For example, you have a much better shot at being hired by Google as a software engineer if you have a PhD in computer science.
Deleuze
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom2102 Posts
September 07 2013 12:49 GMT
#406
On September 07 2013 10:40 stuneedsfood wrote:
Almost everybody, this thread included, gets a Ph.D to validate they're otherwise meaningless existence and to give them a higher position to shit on those with less education than themselves.

When you're done, try to be less of a dick than most others who get one. Knowing a shit-ton about some stupidly precise subject does not make you as special as you think, and your precious discoveries are not going to be of any use, to anyone, ever. It just makes you feel good about yourself.

I have a Ph.D.


No. People get PhDs to sleep with undergrads.
“An image of thought called philosophy has been formed historically and it effectively stops people from thinking.” ― Gilles Deleuze, Dialogues II
Derrida
Profile Joined March 2011
2885 Posts
September 07 2013 12:59 GMT
#407
I am getting a Ph.D. because I'm fucking lazy to do any other work. Just gonna read stuff and have a comfortable chair for the rest of my life.

Btw, HIGH FIVE DELEUZE ^
#1 Grubby Fan.
Deleuze
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom2102 Posts
September 07 2013 13:13 GMT
#408
On September 07 2013 21:59 Derrida wrote:
I am getting a Ph.D. because I'm fucking lazy to do any other work. Just gonna read stuff and have a comfortable chair for the rest of my life.

Btw, HIGH FIVE DELEUZE ^


High five Derrida!

Being paid to read. It's a tough job but someone has to do it.
“An image of thought called philosophy has been formed historically and it effectively stops people from thinking.” ― Gilles Deleuze, Dialogues II
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
September 07 2013 13:23 GMT
#409
On September 07 2013 02:25 GhastlyUprising wrote:

As for attending conferences and reading papers that come up every day...you simply don't seem to have a very good understanding of the history of science and how scientists make their discoveries. As one example, Richard Feynman arrived at his "sum over histories" formulation by digging up a paper of Dirac's that was 15 years old and noticing a passage in which Dirac said that one expression can be regarded as "analogous" to a Lagrangian. He didn't have to attend conferences or stay abreast of recent papers. (Yes, he had a lot of help from Wheeler with his early work, but he probably would have done good work even without that collaboration, and what's more, he didn't have the Internet and all the other advantages that the modern age brings.)


Do you actually think Feynman didn't keep up to date or collaborate with other top physicists?

What do you think the probability is that he would have come up with the "sum over histories" formulation if he never read recent papers or collaborated with colleagues? Are you confident that his revelation after reading Dirac's paper would have come had it not been for all of his other research and training?
www.infinityseven.net
Dr.Sin
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1126 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-07 13:45:17
September 07 2013 13:28 GMT
#410
A bachelor's degree is about doing what you're told and you learn a little bit of everything. (obligatory phd comic: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1056 ).

A PhD at first appears to be focused on discovering new knowledge, but that implies that a PhD is knowledge specific when in fact, it is much more the mastery of a method. Getting a PhD (at least in science) is about learning how to ask a question and getting an answer. A PhD is about learning how to communicate all this knowledge and the questions that are a part of this discovery process in language other people can understand.

When you get a PhD you demonstrated your mastery over this method by contributing new knowledge to your given field.

Edit: if I were to add to your visual depiction, I would make the big circle smaller and add tons of little circles at the outside. Then I would make the arrow from the center non-linear, because when you do a PhD, what you started working on is rarely what you ended up working on. In the end, the experience of doing the PhD will have led you in unexpected places while trying to get to your destination.

A linear arrow assumes that you are getting to where you aimed to get to, but if that were the case, you wouldn't have needed to get on the road to get there to begin with. When you're doing research, you find out that going down that following that road actually led you some place else entirely. Thus by doing research, you discover that the assumptions that you made, that made you believe you would get to that particular point by following the road you took, were not true. Discovering that these assumptions were false is often as important to understanding how things work, as compared to reaching that one goal you hypothesized the road you took would take you to.

Edit 2: So to make this sound less convoluted, let's use the example of the gentleman who put his point right outside the big circle and called it "Saving my son's life". There are indubitably many points like these all around the circle that can save a lot of people's lives. We don't know where they are. When a scientist will make a hypothesis, he will make an educated guess that doing a set of experiments (ie the road) will demonstrate how something works that will add this outside point to the circle, that we will discover something useful that will help someone. However, what will happen is that instead of getting there, the scientist will get to a different point entirely, which may or may not help anyone in the immediate future (thus not linear).
peacenl
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
550 Posts
September 07 2013 14:03 GMT
#411
On September 07 2013 22:13 Deleuze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 21:59 Derrida wrote:
I am getting a Ph.D. because I'm fucking lazy to do any other work. Just gonna read stuff and have a comfortable chair for the rest of my life.

Btw, HIGH FIVE DELEUZE ^


High five Derrida!

Being paid to read. It's a tough job but someone has to do it.

I've looked into becoming a Ph.D, but unless you have a godlike focus for years on end, this is not for you (might differ in relation to universities though). Being lazy and becoming a Ph.D don't go hand in hand, I suppose.
- One does not simply walk into a bar and start calling the shots.
- Failure doesn't mean you are a failure it just means you haven't succeeded yet.
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
September 07 2013 14:04 GMT
#412
On September 07 2013 17:26 ZenithM wrote:
For example, you have a much better shot at being hired by Google as a software engineer if you have a PhD in computer science.


Not necessarily as PhDs are held to a higher standard in terms of skills and maturity. That being said, I would like to think that if you have the gumption to complete a PhD (in computer science) that you can demonstrate more than enough skills to hack it in industry. In other words, it's less about the degree and more about the skills you inevitably acquire on your way to receiving that degree. At least in this particular example.
GhastlyUprising
Profile Joined August 2013
198 Posts
September 07 2013 14:50 GMT
#413
On September 07 2013 22:23 iSTime wrote:
Do you actually think Feynman didn't keep up to date or collaborate with other top physicists?
I already admitted he collaborated a lot with Wheeler and it was probably formative for Feynman. His Nobel Prize address makes that clear. Doesn't change the fact that he got the chief inspiration for sum over histories from a passage in a 15-year-old paper.

On September 07 2013 22:23 iSTime wrote:What do you think the probability is that he would have come up with the "sum over histories" formulation if he never read recent papers or collaborated with colleagues? Are you confident that his revelation after reading Dirac's paper would have come had it not been for all of his other research and training?
If he chose the independent route and stayed with it, he would have had a different kind of training.

In previous centuries there were lots of independent, "gentlemen scientists". I agree there haven't been many recently, but that might change thanks to the Internet and all the opportunities it brings.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
September 07 2013 14:56 GMT
#414
On September 07 2013 23:04 Kambing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 17:26 ZenithM wrote:
For example, you have a much better shot at being hired by Google as a software engineer if you have a PhD in computer science.


Not necessarily as PhDs are held to a higher standard in terms of skills and maturity. That being said, I would like to think that if you have the gumption to complete a PhD (in computer science) that you can demonstrate more than enough skills to hack it in industry. In other words, it's less about the degree and more about the skills you inevitably acquire on your way to receiving that degree. At least in this particular example.

Yes, exactly. In this case, the PhD degree is just a filter, Google then checks that you can really do smart stuff in their job interviews :D
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-07 15:38:21
September 07 2013 15:37 GMT
#415
On September 07 2013 17:19 phar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 09:53 Alex1Sun wrote:
Doing PhD is a great way to not have a paying job. Most importantly not having a paying job usually continues after PhD is granted, often for many years

On the brighter side PhDs are among the most valuable members of our society, because they are the ones who expand our understanding of the universe and make life better for future generations =)

Like undergrad degrees, this depends entirely on what field you have a PhD in.


No. It just depends on how much effort you actually put into it/having a job. Literally any degree can be quite successful. Some just aren't as easy as others. Sure, life isn't fair and you may get screwed, but there isn't a degree out there that is worthless by default.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
September 07 2013 16:34 GMT
#416
On September 07 2013 12:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 10:40 stuneedsfood wrote:
Almost everybody, this thread included, gets a Ph.D to validate they're otherwise meaningless existence and to give them a higher position to shit on those with less education than themselves.


Or to teach at the university level, where a doctorate is preferred by many colleges... >.>

Haha exactly.
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-07 16:54:23
September 07 2013 16:54 GMT
#417
On September 07 2013 12:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 10:40 stuneedsfood wrote:
Almost everybody, this thread included, gets a Ph.D to validate they're otherwise meaningless existence and to give them a higher position to shit on those with less education than themselves.


Or to teach at the university level, where a doctorate is preferred by many colleges... >.>

Teaching at a university level is basically meaningless. Academia's no different from a circus at heart. In fact, it's probably worse due to all the bureaucratic and political bullshit you have to put up with.

It's a dream for the people who make it though. People pay me to entertain myself and them with esoteric knowledge that nobody really cares about? Hell yeah!
dreamsmasher
Profile Joined November 2010
816 Posts
September 07 2013 16:56 GMT
#418
On September 07 2013 17:26 ZenithM wrote:
For example, you have a much better shot at being hired by Google as a software engineer if you have a PhD in computer science.


depends on the what exactly you wnt to do at google. you can get hired as an undergraduate too, you just have to be really good.
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
September 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#419
So many ppl from my school go for masters/phd cause they couldn't line up a job straight out of college. The "well, couldn't find a job, might as apply for grad school" mentality is quite huge here. (and getting into a masters program is impossible to fail, some phd programs are more selective but isn't too difficult)
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 07 2013 17:17 GMT
#420
On September 05 2013 13:06 sam!zdat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2013 11:08 triangle wrote:
On September 05 2013 09:24 sam!zdat wrote:
that's because political science is a bullshit field. You should know this because politics is obviously not science. Political science is where politics ends and we all become slaves of the election machine.

I think I have to take an exam or smth two and a half years in for the MA part. But I'm not sure everything about this is confusing, I'm just going to show up and think about literature and I'm sure it will work out.

...you are obviously not a political scientist. Academic political science does not even resemble talking heads on TV, or whatever you are basing your post off of.


political science is the study of how to run and manipulate a degenerate electoral system and manufacture the illusion of legitimacy. It is about how to calculate your chessboard so you can write off everyone who doesn't live in the one swing district you need. It is about how to make polls and pretend they are the voice of the people. I know exactly what 'political science' is.

Also, this is bullshit. Talk to more political scientists, and you'll start to get a glimmer of an idea of how wide and diverse the field is in terms of research interests and practice, esp. between policy and academia.
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