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The Big Programming Thread - Page 641

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Thread Rules
1. This is not a "do my homework for me" thread. If you have specific questions, ask, but don't post an assignment or homework problem and expect an exact solution.
2. No recruiting for your cockamamie projects (you won't replace facebook with 3 dudes you found on the internet and $20)
3. If you can't articulate why a language is bad, don't start slinging shit about it. Just remember that nothing is worse than making CSS IE6 compatible.
4. Use [code] tags to format code blocks.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
June 14 2015 20:53 GMT
#12801
Pretty sure most interview questions like that are designed to evaluate thought processes, general knowledge and problem solving, not having specific answers to specific problems.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
supereddie
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands151 Posts
June 14 2015 21:01 GMT
#12802
On June 15 2015 05:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
for example at one of the places I interviewed at I was requested to solve something that is a slight variation of the collaboration distance problem. (e.g. Kevin Bacon number or Erdős number) and I was given maybe 20-30 minutes to whiteboard my solution to the problem which was initially not in an easily or obviously solvable format. I'm pretty sure that question was designed to fail almost every candidate that applied.

If I ever get questions like that I'd just get up and leave. No point in wasting my time on stupid, irrelevant questions. Unless, of course, the position you apply for has an actual need for such algorithms and it said so in the job description. But then I wouldn't apply to that position

Sure, it can be useful to know bubble sort, of some pathfinding alogrithm, or whatever. But in my professional programming carreer I never needed to implement my own. There are existing frameworks and libraries who are probably widely used, heavily tested and have good to excellent performance...

"Do not try to make difficult things possible, but make simple things simple." - David Platt on Software Design
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
June 14 2015 21:50 GMT
#12803
lol if you think that interviews are about getting the perfect solution or that because you don't use algorithms in your job that they serve no purpose in an interview. interviews are supposed to show your interviewer your problem solving and decision making abilities. and if you should've learned anything in mathematics you should've realized that people care more about your steps than your solutions.
There is no one like you in the universe.
phar
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1080 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-14 23:51:56
June 14 2015 23:51 GMT
#12804
On June 15 2015 06:01 supereddie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2015 05:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
for example at one of the places I interviewed at I was requested to solve something that is a slight variation of the collaboration distance problem. (e.g. Kevin Bacon number or Erdős number) and I was given maybe 20-30 minutes to whiteboard my solution to the problem which was initially not in an easily or obviously solvable format. I'm pretty sure that question was designed to fail almost every candidate that applied.

If I ever get questions like that I'd just get up and leave. No point in wasting my time on stupid, irrelevant questions. Unless, of course, the position you apply for has an actual need for such algorithms and it said so in the job description. But then I wouldn't apply to that position

Sure, it can be useful to know bubble sort, of some pathfinding alogrithm, or whatever. But in my professional programming carreer I never needed to implement my own. There are existing frameworks and libraries who are probably widely used, heavily tested and have good to excellent performance...


Well the point is to land a job that pays ~$200k or more after a few years.

Also even if the interview questions are bad (because some interviewers use bad questions, there's nothing you can do about that), the work is typically more interesting.
Who after all is today speaking about the destruction of the Armenians?
killa_robot
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1884 Posts
June 15 2015 00:51 GMT
#12805
On June 15 2015 05:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2015 12:23 killa_robot wrote:
Wow, I could never go to that many interviews for a job. I don't even bother to apply to such large places. Way too intimidating.

I applied to a place I thought was smaller before, ended up being 3 people interviewing me one by one over the course of 2-3 hours. Terrible experience, especially because only the first interview was really meaningful and the others were largely just repeating stuff I mentioned to the first guy.


it sucks but that's the way you have to do it if you want a well-paying job at a tech company in SV.

Most of my on-site interviews were all-day affairs, usually starting around 10 in the morning and ending around 4. The hardest part is the fatigue once you have enough practice and you know what is expected. Also you can consider the phone screens to just be individual interviews prior to the "real thing".

But it paid off for me :D hard to beat $150k++ in annual compensation and amazing perks right out of college

edit: also I should say that some of the hardest interviews are not at the places you'd expect. The ones for me that were hardest were some startups in SF and places like Dropbox, Quora, Patreon etc which are on the smallish to medium size.

for example at one of the places I interviewed at I was requested to solve something that is a slight variation of the collaboration distance problem. (e.g. Kevin Bacon number or Erdős number) and I was given maybe 20-30 minutes to whiteboard my solution to the problem which was initially not in an easily or obviously solvable format. I'm pretty sure that question was designed to fail almost every candidate that applied.


You must do a ton of side projects if you were even considered for such a high paying job just outside of school.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17243 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-15 01:14:20
June 15 2015 01:13 GMT
#12806
On June 15 2015 05:49 Nesserev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2015 05:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
for example at one of the places I interviewed at I was requested to solve something that is a slight variation of the collaboration distance problem. (e.g. Kevin Bacon number or Erdős number) and I was given maybe 20-30 minutes to whiteboard my solution to the problem which was initially not in an easily or obviously solvable format. I'm pretty sure that question was designed to fail almost every candidate that applied.

Hmmm, it's a shame that you don't remember what the exact problem was anymore, would be fun... but sounds difficult to solve if you haven't taken an algorithm course that has handled Dijkstra and such.


I guess they were testing him for the ability to write an app that serves "If you liked that, you might also like..." stuff and such

Anyway, it all boils down to the shortest path algorithms and if you know them (or even about them) or not.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-15 02:11:24
June 15 2015 02:00 GMT
#12807
On June 15 2015 10:13 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2015 05:49 Nesserev wrote:
On June 15 2015 05:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
for example at one of the places I interviewed at I was requested to solve something that is a slight variation of the collaboration distance problem. (e.g. Kevin Bacon number or Erdős number) and I was given maybe 20-30 minutes to whiteboard my solution to the problem which was initially not in an easily or obviously solvable format. I'm pretty sure that question was designed to fail almost every candidate that applied.

Hmmm, it's a shame that you don't remember what the exact problem was anymore, would be fun... but sounds difficult to solve if you haven't taken an algorithm course that has handled Dijkstra and such.


I guess they were testing him for the ability to write an app that serves "If you liked that, you might also like..." stuff and such

Anyway, it all boils down to the shortest path algorithms and if you know them (or even about them) or not.


actually this was exactly what it was

The job was for a startup in SF that is essentially a competitor to Yelp and it builds like a social search app.

So no, the question wasn't really out of context but it was still relatively surprising. I actually managed to get fairly far into the question although I spent a non-trivial amount of time rearranging the data so I could treat it like a search problem. I tried to get it into something that resembled an adjacency list before attempting to use BFS

edit:

On June 15 2015 05:53 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Pretty sure most interview questions like that are designed to evaluate thought processes, general knowledge and problem solving, not having specific answers to specific problems.


Yes, this is true.

However I think you'll find that a lot of the time bad or unmotivated interviewers will not really ask good questions. Some questions don't elucidate the candidate's thought process as well as others.

Sometimes when you get someone who is clearly not interested in interviewing (and often I'm not quite sure how they end up in that position) or who is having an off day or whatever they tend to be rather terse with you and it makes for a bad experience. I interviewed for at least 20 companies in the bay over a period of about 2 months and in almost half of them there was at least one interviewer who was clearly disinterested and probably didn't care what I had to say.

It's also kinda shocking how lacking the process is in diversity. I think I had a whopping 3 women interviewers and maybe one person who wasn't white or Asian. There are lots of positions that are not filled with the best people (particularly design, management and numerous creative roles) simply because the process sucks at finding them. It definitely needs to change, and I can see it happening at some companies, but it's worrying that these types of interviews are so commonplace. At least for the most part in my experience once you know how the system works you can always play to it. Not necessarily the most uplifting thing, however.
phar
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1080 Posts
June 15 2015 02:31 GMT
#12808
On June 15 2015 09:51 killa_robot wrote:
You must do a ton of side projects if you were even considered for such a high paying job just outside of school.

You do not need to do side projects to get a job at GooMicBookZon right out of undergrad. They hire a large number of new grads, and it would not surprise me if starting offers were $150k+ now, especially at Facebook.
Who after all is today speaking about the destruction of the Armenians?
Zocat
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2229 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-15 02:41:07
June 15 2015 02:40 GMT
#12809
On June 15 2015 05:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
one of the places I interviewed at I was requested to solve something that is a slight variation of the collaboration distance problem. (e.g. Kevin Bacon number or Erdős number) and I was given maybe 20-30 minutes to whiteboard my solution to the problem which was initially not in an easily or obviously solvable format.


k-hop neighbourhood in graphs. If you have a node it self is the 0-hop neighbourhood, all nodes it can reach within 1 hop is the 1-hop neighbourhood etc.

It's often used in topology control and similar features (i.e. routing).

A cool feature of it is that you can calculate it without having the whole view of the complete graph, it's enough that each node can see it's 1-hop neighbourhood and thus it can be easily/efficiently solved in a distributed way.
Traditional algorithms usually perform worse.
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
June 15 2015 03:19 GMT
#12810
This might be off-topic, but this is the best github project i have ever laid my eyes on


https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
helpman177
Profile Blog Joined June 2015
56 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-15 12:15:56
June 15 2015 03:55 GMT
#12811
What are those "high quality standards of enterprise software"?

Edit: I see, I'm a bit slow.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17243 Posts
June 15 2015 07:35 GMT
#12812
On June 15 2015 12:19 amazingxkcd wrote:
This might be off-topic, but this is the best github project i have ever laid my eyes on


https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition



Naah, nothing will ever beat ToleranUX (sadly, it got blocked by GitHub) and C+=
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
June 15 2015 11:36 GMT
#12813
On June 15 2015 16:35 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2015 12:19 amazingxkcd wrote:
This might be off-topic, but this is the best github project i have ever laid my eyes on


https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition



Naah, nothing will ever beat ToleranUX (sadly, it got blocked by GitHub) and C+=

Great stuff :D (those 2 posts).
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19229 Posts
June 15 2015 12:05 GMT
#12814
Okay this is a pretty odd question and either there is no answer or it is stupidly obvious. Reply in terms of C++, C# please:

If I have a function OnMouseDown() and it calls a function IsUISelected() such that it looks like this:


void OnMouseDown()
{
IsUISelected();
}


If IsUISelected resolves to true in it's function I need to break out out of the OnMouseDown() function instead of continuing.

I'm trying to simply this statement. Simplying the state is purely just a curiosity not a necessity.

void OnMouseDown()
{
if (GlobalVariables.UISelected())
{
return;
}

}




ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19229 Posts
June 15 2015 12:12 GMT
#12815
On June 15 2015 16:35 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2015 12:19 amazingxkcd wrote:
This might be off-topic, but this is the best github project i have ever laid my eyes on


https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition



Naah, nothing will ever beat ToleranUX (sadly, it got blocked by GitHub) and C+=

I'm cracking up so hard right now. To bad I'm surrounded by artists who won't get the jokes.

Gold:
private == privileged
printf(); == yell();
class Foo{}; == social_construct Foo{};
#include == #consider
break; == leave;
if() == maybe()
for() == check()
while() == freeflowing()
sin(x) == biotruth(x)
div == unite
'y's are strictly prohibited when naming variables; only 'x's are allowed
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
inn5013orecl
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States227 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-15 13:10:27
June 15 2015 13:07 GMT
#12816
On June 15 2015 21:05 BisuDagger wrote:
Okay this is a pretty odd question and either there is no answer or it is stupidly obvious. Reply in terms of C++, C# please:

If I have a function OnMouseDown() and it calls a function IsUISelected() such that it looks like this:


void OnMouseDown()
{
IsUISelected();
}


If IsUISelected resolves to true in it's function I need to break out out of the OnMouseDown() function instead of continuing.

I'm trying to simply this statement. Simplying the state is purely just a curiosity not a necessity.

void OnMouseDown()
{
if (GlobalVariables.UISelected())
{
return;
}

}






Pretty sure that's as simple as you're going to get. Return pass control back to the caller of OnMouseDown(), effectively exiting out of the function. In this case, works exactly like a break statement in a loop.


void OnMouseDown()
{
if(IsUISelected()) // IsUISelected() value returned
return;
//rest of code runs only if IsUISelected() returns false;
}
i live with a korean who doesnt play sc...wtf
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-15 13:12:30
June 15 2015 13:11 GMT
#12817
On June 15 2015 22:07 inn5013orecl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2015 21:05 BisuDagger wrote:
Okay this is a pretty odd question and either there is no answer or it is stupidly obvious. Reply in terms of C++, C# please:

If I have a function OnMouseDown() and it calls a function IsUISelected() such that it looks like this:


void OnMouseDown()
{
IsUISelected();
}


If IsUISelected resolves to true in it's function I need to break out out of the OnMouseDown() function instead of continuing.

I'm trying to simply this statement. Simplying the state is purely just a curiosity not a necessity.

void OnMouseDown()
{
if (GlobalVariables.UISelected())
{
return;
}

}






Pretty sure that's as simple as you're going to get. Return pass control back to the caller of OnMouseDown(), effectively exiting out of the function. In this case, works exactly like a break statement in a loop.


void OnMouseDown()
{
if(IsUISelected()) // IsUISelected() value returned
return;
}

That's what I thought. I just have to use this check in so many damn places I was trying to save white space. Oh well lol.

edit: The reason I keep the brackets is to match a coding standard of another companies programmers I have to work with from time to time.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17970 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-15 13:34:04
June 15 2015 13:33 GMT
#12818
On June 15 2015 22:11 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2015 22:07 inn5013orecl wrote:
On June 15 2015 21:05 BisuDagger wrote:
Okay this is a pretty odd question and either there is no answer or it is stupidly obvious. Reply in terms of C++, C# please:

If I have a function OnMouseDown() and it calls a function IsUISelected() such that it looks like this:


void OnMouseDown()
{
IsUISelected();
}


If IsUISelected resolves to true in it's function I need to break out out of the OnMouseDown() function instead of continuing.

I'm trying to simply this statement. Simplying the state is purely just a curiosity not a necessity.

void OnMouseDown()
{
if (GlobalVariables.UISelected())
{
return;
}

}






Pretty sure that's as simple as you're going to get. Return pass control back to the caller of OnMouseDown(), effectively exiting out of the function. In this case, works exactly like a break statement in a loop.


void OnMouseDown()
{
if(IsUISelected()) // IsUISelected() value returned
return;
}

That's what I thought. I just have to use this check in so many damn places I was trying to save white space. Oh well lol.

edit: The reason I keep the brackets is to match a coding standard of another companies programmers I have to work with from time to time.

Restructure your program to require less of these checks? Or suck it up. Honestly, I can't think why you wouldn't just put all of that check and return statement on a single line (including {}s). Hell, you can add a line of commentary above it and still save 2 lines if you do it that way.

//Break out of mouse handler if UI is selected
if(IsUISelected()) { return; }


is imho just as clear as the 4-line version (although the line of commentary is not necessary at all, the line is pretty self-explanatory. Better commentary would be a reminder why breaking out of the mouse handler is the proper functioning of the program).
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19229 Posts
June 15 2015 13:40 GMT
#12819
On June 15 2015 22:33 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2015 22:11 BisuDagger wrote:
On June 15 2015 22:07 inn5013orecl wrote:
On June 15 2015 21:05 BisuDagger wrote:
Okay this is a pretty odd question and either there is no answer or it is stupidly obvious. Reply in terms of C++, C# please:

If I have a function OnMouseDown() and it calls a function IsUISelected() such that it looks like this:


void OnMouseDown()
{
IsUISelected();
}


If IsUISelected resolves to true in it's function I need to break out out of the OnMouseDown() function instead of continuing.

I'm trying to simply this statement. Simplying the state is purely just a curiosity not a necessity.

void OnMouseDown()
{
if (GlobalVariables.UISelected())
{
return;
}

}






Pretty sure that's as simple as you're going to get. Return pass control back to the caller of OnMouseDown(), effectively exiting out of the function. In this case, works exactly like a break statement in a loop.


void OnMouseDown()
{
if(IsUISelected()) // IsUISelected() value returned
return;
}

That's what I thought. I just have to use this check in so many damn places I was trying to save white space. Oh well lol.

edit: The reason I keep the brackets is to match a coding standard of another companies programmers I have to work with from time to time.

Restructure your program to require less of these checks? Or suck it up. Honestly, I can't think why you wouldn't just put all of that check and return statement on a single line (including {}s). Hell, you can add a line of commentary above it and still save 2 lines if you do it that way.

//Break out of mouse handler if UI is selected
if(IsUISelected()) { return; }


is imho just as clear as the 4-line version (although the line of commentary is not necessary at all, the line is pretty self-explanatory. Better commentary would be a reminder why breaking out of the mouse handler is the proper functioning of the program).

As I mentioned in my edit. For at least this project I'm matching a coding standard for another company. I'm the lead programmer within my company and I 100% agree with you, but the other companies guidelines are "always use brackets for readability" and "Don't comment code unless absolutely necessary to reduce clutter.". I've done really well in my profession by following the technical outlines of a company (even if you disagree) instead of fighting the system.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17243 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-15 14:27:00
June 15 2015 14:22 GMT
#12820
In order to reduce the clutter, you could technically perform the check at different places.

Instead of doing:


someMethod() {
secondMethod();
thirdMethod();
}

secondMethod() {
if (fourthMethod()) {
return;
}

// do stuff
}

thirdMethod() {
if (fourthMethod()) {
return;
}

// do stuff
}

fourthMethod() {
return !something;
}


You can do that:


someMethod() {
if (fourthMethod()) {
secondMethod();
thirdMethod();
}
}


Still not pretty, you could perhaps think of making some custom constructors or event listeners, injecting the stuff and such to maybe bypass some of the clutter.

Another way could possibly be wrapping the IsUISelected() method into a method that checks it and throws an exception. Then you could possibly use try/catch stuff to do the work.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
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