EPTNFL Playoffs 2008-2009 - Page 49
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
I'm not sure whether to be happy or angry. | ||
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On December 21 2008 13:21 FzeroXx wrote:You can't outspeed the NFL forever. Chris Johnson? Steve Slaton? You could say you can't outbruise the NFL forever either. Pretty much every "bruising" running back is sitting on the bench due to an injury. | ||
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
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GTR
51712 Posts
and the Cowboys Defense was fucking terrible on those last 2 Ravens plays. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On December 21 2008 12:51 FzeroXx wrote: Everything you mentioned is because of Drew Brees. Pierre Thomas is not the answer. Reggie Bush is the complete development project of Sean Payton; He was drafted as a running back. He plays as a receiver because he doesn't have the size or ability to be a running back. Their oline can't create holes to create a running game so they throw the ball 80% of the time. Brees doesn't get sacked because he has a superb clock in his head. He releases the ball very quickly and always has an option out of the backfield on blitz. The Saints have a bad dline with decent linebackers and no secondary. I wish you had any idea how hard Sean works. I live about 40 minutes from where he lives, and I've met them before. It's not easy to turn things around, if you don't believe that look at the Cardinals/Raiders/Lions etc etc. The Saints are that bad usually. Since Payton was head coach they are making the playoffs or close every year. One season! That's all it took for the Cardinals to turn around. Why? Because Whisenhunt is a GOOD head coach. The Cardinals have one player on their defense worth mentioning, but they're still better than the Saints defense. Why? Because they have better coaching. No where did I question Sean Payton's work ethic. I said he sucked as a head coach. Reggie Bush being picked #3 overall by Sean Payton only lends credibility to my claim. He was drafted as a HB, even though he was worthless as one, by Sean Payton and co (I add the and co because I do realize he doesn't have all the decision making power, but it's really rare that a GM goes against a coach's wishes on who to draft, unless it's in Oakland or Dallas). As far as their o-line goes, you just don't know what you're talking about. Pierre Thomas is averaging 4.7 a carry this year. That is VERY good, and normally only top-end half backs average that high. If 4.7 yards per carry isn't opening holes, I don't know what is. And given that they average 4.7 yards per carry (which says that you're guaranteed wrong in one of two points: that Thomas isn't the answer, or their oline can't open holes, or both), I can't think of a reason that they don't run the ball more, other than they have bad coaching. Every offensive line looks better than it actually is when they have a good QB, that doesn't mean they suck. Brees is over rated. If you want to talk about over rated, there's the guy to talk about. I'm not saying he isn't good, but everyone jocks his nuts like he's the second coming of Christ. This is how QB's go in the NFL, 1a) Peyton Manning, 1b) Tom Brady-------->Everyone else. Is Brees at the top of that "everyone else" list? Yeah. Him and Palmer, and McNabb, and a few other guys. But Brees is no different than Romo: he can't pull his shit together at the end of the year, and he can't get his shit together in bad weather. He's also streaky as hell. Remember the first four games of last year? When he started with 1 TD and 9 INts? I do. And then take a look at the their schedule after week 7 last year, and you'll see why they got hot: dome, warm weather (ww), ww, dome, dome/ww, ww, dome, dome, dome, dome, dome, bw (Loss to the Bears). By the way, the reason the Saints suck in bad weather, and outdoors, is because Sean Payton doesn't get them prepared well enough. He had them practicing in 70 degree weather the whole week before the NFC Championship, when it was roughly 2 degrees outside in Chicago. Everyone in Chicago saw a blow out coming, and it wasn't because we're homers. It's because we knew (apparently better than a head coach) that you can't prepare for Chicago weather unless you practice in it. The result? They were dominated by the Bears. The Saints Dline is talented; the reason it sucks is coaching. Take a look at the Giants Dline last year. The first five games, they sucked, because they were attempting to play a style that was not suited to their players. Steve Spagnuola (SP) changed his defensive line schemes, and they jumped from a bottom of the barrel dline, to one of the most feared pass rushing units in the league. Coaching makes a difference. Their secondary is weak, and I've said that several times, but it only shows how bad the team is at acquiring talent (which is Payton's fault as well as the GM, because as I've stated several times, he has a lot of input on who comes to that team). On December 21 2008 13:21 FzeroXx wrote: Thomas has fresh legs and burst against tired defenses at the end of the season. Show me Pierre Thomas as the HB for the entire year next year getting 4.7 YPC and I'll buy it. The Saints need a bruising RB like Jacobs or Forte. You can't outspeed the NFL forever. They also need corner help and a pass rush, along with a separating receiver and a better kicker. Jacobs = hurt, Marion Barber = hurt, Larry Johnson = garbage because he was used too much, and his oline sucks now, Forte = hurt, Fred Taylor = hurt, MJD = hurt, Deuce McCallister = hurt, Stephen Jackson = hurt, Earnest Graham = hurt, Clinton Portis = hurt (though he is beastly, and he plays through it). The only power half backs that aren't hurt are the guys that are splitting carries. And you're making judgments based on assumptions, rather than actual evidence. The 4.7 ypc that Thomas has right now is the only thing you can judge. Week 1 he averaged 5.2 yards per carry. Weeks 2-7ish, he was used as a goal line/short yardage back only, so you can't count those statistics. Games when he was used in a larger role, he has averaged well over 4 yards per carry. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On December 21 2008 13:27 zer0das wrote: Chris Johnson? Steve Slaton? You could say you can't outbruise the NFL forever either. Pretty much every "bruising" running back is sitting on the bench due to an injury. Not saying you are wrong about speedster running backs, but Johnson and Slation are both in their rookie years. It's really too soon to be certain whether or not they'll outrun the NFL forever. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On December 21 2008 14:03 nemY wrote: I thought I had made the smart move by not starting Le'Ron McClain. For about 58 and a half minutes I was right. Not saying you are wrong about speedster running backs, but Johnson and Slation are both in their rookie years. It's really too soon to be certain whether or not they'll outrun the NFL forever. (NOTE: This whole reply is not intended as a response to Nemy only. It's mostly a general statement about rushing offenses in the NFL.) LT, Barry Sanders.... I'm sure we can think of more. LT is purely speed and cuts. He rarely puts his shoulder down and takes someone on. Barry did that a lot more often, but he was primarily a speed/juking half back. LT also has an amazing stiff arm. His stats are down this year due to a lack of blocking (he lost his pro bowl HB, and I'm pretty sure they've had some o line issues this year), and he's been battling a knee injury all year. It's not just speed, though, it's elusiveness. They're almost impossible to catch from behind, and even straight on, they're hard to wrap up. The thing is, and coaches have figured this out around the league, it's better to have two running backs. One guy handling all the carries leads to injuries very quickly, thus a lack of production. Brandon Jacobs/Derrick Ward->Ahmad Bradshaw, Barber->Jones, Johnson->White, DeAngelo Williams->Jonathan Stewart. The change up confuses defenses, and it tires them out. Any team that is attempting to run a single half back system is struggling. The Bears, for instance, are ranked 20th in the NFL. Obviously that isn't the only thing that impacts half back performance (blocking does too, and actually running the ball, as the case is in Dallas), but it does affect it. There are only two teams in the top twenty yards per game that use a single half back system: the Bears and the Chiefs (and even they use other guys from time to time). I guess the Redskins rely almost solely on Portis, but they use Betts too. Almost every team uses more than one half back, and the best running teams all use more than one half back. | ||
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
oh well TO and clark did well for me here's hoping it's enough... | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On December 21 2008 14:30 FzeroXx wrote: Why are you so into it? Jesus christ man. I'm not responding to all that. It's like three paragraphs. The bottom of it is just pointing out all the power half backs that are injured. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/alltime/leaders?cat=rushlead There are a few backs on there I would classify as "speedsters" so I guess I'm wrong on my previous point. The Dual RB system is definitely super-effective which frustrates me as a 49ers fan (since Martz almost exclusively uses Frank Gore). I would really like the 49ers to invest in a speed RB to complement Gore in the off season. | ||
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
On December 21 2008 14:36 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: It's like three paragraphs. The bottom of it is just pointing out all the power half backs that are injured. Try like 9 or 10 in those two posts. lol :/ | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
On December 21 2008 14:59 nemY wrote: I always thought of LT as more of a bruiser running back, but thinking about it now you're right. LT's definitely more of a speedster. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/alltime/leaders?cat=rushlead There are a few backs on there I would classify as "speedsters" so I guess I'm wrong on my previous point. The Dual RB system is definitely super-effective which frustrates me as a 49ers fan (since Martz almost exclusively uses Frank Gore). I would really like the 49ers to invest in a speed RB to complement Gore in the off season. STOP CALLING TOMLINSON LT DAMNIT!!! | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
Not sure how I feel about them, tho. We have a good D. Great running game. But Jake "Jack" Del my homie is unpredictable at best. And... I kind've feel like a running game can be stopped. And if that happens, and Jake is off his game, we get routed. If both are on, GG baby. But I feel like we can lose any game, vs any opponent... or win. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
What really enrages me is that New Orleans has 4 rushing touchdowns and only 1 of those went to Thomas. URK. Not that it matters in the league that I'm in the playoffs. Cassel, Bryant, Wayne, Thomas all went off and I still have AP and Slaton. My opponent will be lucky to break 50 points the way things are going. xD It's unfortunate the championship wasn't this week. Worrying about who to start in week 17 is going to give me an ulcer. | ||
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