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On June 02 2010 03:21 Ack1027 wrote:
Eh forgot to mention Undying, Zeus, Warlock, Chieftain, Batrider, KotL+ES, SPECTRE [ jesus christ ] and how they worked into their respective game versions but otherwise a good overview...how the hell you remembered all those things without looking it up I will never know. Gg nerd.
Totally forgot about Pope rocketfist though lmao.
I didn't bother with BR+TC because they were either mutually banned beforehand or mutually banned in game always. Zeus/Lock I wasn't around for, I just knew the Russians hated Zeus. UD I honestly don't remember much about other than it was a bitch to play against, think he was banned fairly often too.
I mentioned Spec and KotL+ES. Spec I felt wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad if he didn't come into being out of that 52 era. I did forget Axe though, he was axing people questions when they weren't ready for it in lanes.
I remember because I wasn't kidding about my game count earlier, I played far too much during 27-37 and again during 42-57.
Now it's just much more fun watching Light and Fear holding down the fort of people who still remember the old strategies/styles, the Book and the FUUUU-HOWDOYOUKILLTHISHERO respectively.
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I have recently fixed a terrible lag problem that has dampened my HoN progress a great deal.
If anybody would be willing to let a kinda noob tag along every now and again it would be welcome.
Also are people using any specific channels nowadays? the TL channel seems empty a lot of the time xD
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There's 19 people in the TL channel right now.
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On June 02 2010 01:20 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 12:46 Kickstart wrote:
I know this might seem odd, but im wondering if there is any site where I can kind of learn the history of dota. Like who was dominant when and why (what strategies or whatever became big) and how the way the game was played has changed. For me its just much more fun to play a game if you know its history. I started following DotA competitively around 6.27 where the mode of choice was -lm, meaning Sentinel only versus Scourge only heroes with no bans. The name of the game was power nuking, Mekas, Necrobooks, Aegis and the Scourge magic push. With Clinkz, Lich and Pugna, Scourge dominated all, especially after KotL was nerfed. Sentinel had trouble fielding a line up that can stay in a lane with Lich (solo or babysit) and dealing with a Clinkz. Notably Scourge had really strong lanes, Lich+X, Pugna solo or with Sand King, Sand King + Leshrac, Sand King + Atropos; really easy ones. Sentinel featured Silencer, Chen, Omni, Sniper (during the times he got buffed), and Syllabear as popular picks. Scourge basically can fight 4v5 mid game with Pugna+Lich+2 other casters assuming Necrobooks and Mekas were even or even slightly behind. This created space for the Clinkz to do his Divine+Aegis+BKB shenanigans before the Guinsoos hit for Sentinel. It was hard for Sentinel until 6.37.... Where Lich, Pugna, Clinkz got hit by the infamous Icefrog nerfbat (or overnerfbat). Add in reworked Bristleback, Pope Rocketfist the 3rd (Syllabear), Enchantress, and a broken Twin-Headed Dragon, the laning advantage Scourge has enjoyed for so long was turned on them. THD could not be driven out of a lane or the Sylla or the Enchant for that matter. Scourge found some answers with QoP and other heroes. I didn't play much around 37-42 so someone else can fill you in on that. Think Beastmaster was introduced around this time too, but he wasn't broken by players until 42 at least I think. The mode switched first to allpick draft (no bans) then to what we consider the modern day captains mode with 3 bans instead of 4 bans. During those versions SF, QoP, Visage, Viper all made names for themselves, the concept of jungling was developed and the let's race to the 2150 gold for Blink Dagger gank fest came out of Russia. Basically you pick up ganking line ups with a mix of targeted and aoe stuns (Lina, Sand King, NA, Lesh, Sven, etc.), take a semi-carry like PotM, SF, QoP then roll the other team because you can blink to catch and then blink to run. Lose your towers too early and you're boned. If their Lesh/Lina/Sven has a dagger too quickly, then you lost. So this was the era of ganking and map control (pretty sure this where Icefrog was mixing up the ward use). TB was gradually being incorporated into that broken group of heroes, along with the Brokeback Pig and PotM (Leap gave true invulnerability during it's animation). Then in 6.52, everyone got tired of trying to race to 2150 gold so the game got slowed down dramatically. Ganks weren't happening, Vigoss was exposed for the singular minded player that he was, and SK-gaming was running the show with the farm for 40 minutes with one or more of the following heroes of Visage, Luna, TB, Centaur, Specter, BB, Skeleton King. SK-Gaming picked up the Russian Smile and was instantly better, so if you drafted a Russian this version you were probably winning a lot of matches. Then in 6.57 to 62, crappy wards and no dust meant that SA was popping Laguna Blade level damage with his Backstab late game. Tinker came into being with the BoT-Bottle farm. Clockwerk did work on people. Krobelus and Necrolyte held a big sign that said I now have 10 charges on my Bloodstone so fuck off. Storm later would borrow this sign until the change to Bloodstone (it use to give health and mana). Heart and Diffusal also made a big splash this version which made Omni knight the epitome of a boy band in the 90s. Enchantress also single handily won games because she was fucking impossible to kill and more likely resulted in two deaths if you tower dove her. Admiral ran around splish-splashing everyone until Icefrog realized how dumb it was to give a hero such a complete ability set with those stats. It took longer for Dark Seer. Then I stopped caring and following the scene as closely until 6.66-67. So if someone else wants to take over go for it. Also, my samples are finished, so back to work.
Also the Clinkz strat was why Aegis got moved to Roshan and it became not buyable (with ridiculous bonuses).
People got "tired" of Dagger after 6.48b because of the 3 sec damage nerf applied to it and the cooldown was around 25 seconds in those days.
6.57 - 6.62 SA was gay. It didn't take late game, it took mid game because once Backstab levels were maxed you were doing ~150 damage every hit + Backstab and increasing, ban every game and if you didn't you paid the price.
More detail on Bloodstone it gave HP and Mana regen for charges, when 6.63 or 6.64 (I can't remember) came around it was reworked (or nerfed) so that you only get mana from it, I think only some Storm item builds actually use it now.
Same with Heart (6.6?-6.63(4? Memory is killing me now)), which gave 1% regen always, effectively making any hero a tank and tank heroes near impossible to kill and some imbalanced with it (Spectre omfg) because if you had 2500 HP you got 25 HP/s regen, as a late game item it was too good to pass up. Got hit with nerf rework in 6.63 I think, not going to bother to check changelogs. Dark Seer and Admiral were also nerfed around this time...
With today's competitive DotA, everything changed around 6.64 when SMM09 was played and gank strategies effectively got shut down by rice farming strats, who even though gave up maybe 25 deaths to the other side could turtle and farm their way to victory with a carry picks.
Only 2 non Asian teams went, but following tournaments showed the same trend happening. Razor and Visage were incredibly popular picks (and eeventually bans) because of effective damage and tanking power, giving hard carries such as Spectre, Phantom Lancer space to farm. Vanguard was a trend and abuse by Chinese DotA who would literally get it on every hero (Vanguard PotM lol). Farming and playing safely were the most important aspects of DotA now and 3 carry lineups were popular. You can see the Ftd vs Kingsurf game in which Sentinel's crow got ganked by Beastmaster who stole the Sacred Relic around 20 minutes, then PL still farmed another one going to 30 minutes thanks to Razor and SF holding the line and Ftd wins in 70 minutes even while losing 2 lane raxes. I believe PL's farm that game was almost 700.
6.65 brought some hardcore nerfs to Razor, who would have his stats nerfed, rework of Visage, nerfed to Vanguard on ranged heroes, changes to TP scrolls taking longer to cast if done on the same target, 6.65 nerfed Sniper's Shrapnel and 6.66 (or 6.67 I don't remember...) nerfed Spectre's Dispersion. One of these versions also reworked Echo Slam to not include corpses.
Basically 6.65 can be lumped in together with 6.66 and 6.67, except now 6.67 brought in the new Doom and new Visage and who are both really really dumb heroes put in by Icefrog plus Alch.
Manta Style heroes are the trend now, best represented by Medusa, Drow, Morph, Medusa for great tanking ability (and AoE late game), Drow for great damage ability late game, Morph for Waveform burst, damage from Morph,and everything else. Plus PL who is the same as always and Sven with evil stun. Basically the carry heroes that didn't get nerfed after 6.64 (Slardar is banned too often now). Lots of Asian fanboys came around SMM09 because of MYM's miserable performance as well as other LAN wins...
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That's how not to play sand wraith you mean :D
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That's just how to fail or something.
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The Aegis got moved because everyone (read carry) farmed it. It was a really poor item, 3 lives on top of massive survivability? Yes please.
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Yeh I am also interested in player history as I had said (asked who dominated when and why), but I also find this information interesting as well. I don't know much about any dota players, only ones I have heard of are vigoss fear and merlini and I dont even know why they are famous  .
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
I think it's Merlini's zeus that makes him famous
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ah yeh that is probably it, i remember hearing about his zeus guide or something too.
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On June 02 2010 13:16 ahswtini wrote:
I think it's Merlini's zeus that makes him famous
You can YouTube most of their highlights. I'm not sure if Fear has any highlights though ;o
They're all pre magic wand videos too... haha
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woah what the fuck KS lost the game where bm got the sacred relic from their crow?
shit i needa watch that game now (idk where to find vods, if you could so kindly link me a vod? =))
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2 Posts
What is this, Horseville?
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On June 02 2010 13:00 Kickstart wrote:Yeh I am also interested in player history as I had said (asked who dominated when and why), but I also find this information interesting as well. I don't know much about any dota players, only ones I have heard of are vigoss fear and merlini and I dont even know why they are famous .
I'll type one up later when I am at work during down times again. Just off the top of my head, Merlini, Fear, Light, NS, Loda, Kuroky, Fachh, Hitomi, plus like 5 others.
Merlini - Zeus - during the tri-lane era (where teams ran 3 heroes in one lane), his solo Zeus regularly clowned tri-lanes, hence his "tri-lanes are dead" comment/quote.
Fear - Lich/Clinkz/Medusa - first two were during his time in complexity. The last one during this current version. He either played the Lich help/solo or the carry Clinkz during 6.27 and played it to perfection. Players looked towards his Clinkz for clues on how to play the hero properly while his teammate ezy's Clinkz was mindless farm.
LightofHeaven - Silencer/Beastmaster - he advocated the Necro3 build on Silencer over the Midas-BoT-Meka build used earlier, and his Beastmaster is to say the least, beastly with Bottle/Dagger/Book3. Single handily made Book3 relevant after the hard bans on the item and the eventual game changes.
NS - Support heroes, carefully played and on top of wards, doesn't die needlessly and controls lanes without taking creeps.
Loda - SF, domination in a lane with SF, efficient, high cs and crafty. His relentless farming and antics gets him in trouble at times (especially after the nerf to Dagger). Spectre too, as it complemented his high buyback play style late. Forgot about Necrolyte, before Necro got reworked.
Kuroky - Meepo, Admiral, Tinker. He's young, he lanes well, his teams relies on his farm far too much though, more so than the SK teams did on Loda. Also very good with Invoker.
Chu[P] - Very good Meepo/carry in general. Chu and Kuroky are both what you would call hard farmers in the sense that they both pull out CSs consistently regardless of their situation. Think Chu's dominance came at a particular Luna game where he jungled for about <40 mins and came out with about a 14k golds worth of items including a divine/aegis combo.
Fachh[P] - Juggernaut. The man who started the Juggs in jungle and came out with a Radiance.
Hitomi - Any heroes really, smart and patient player, like the NA version of Maelk.
Maelk - Very intelligent player, the best at making in game adaptations as the in game shot caller for MYM. Most noted for Chen and Axe, gives you an idea where he stands at harassing and bothering a lane coming from the jungle. Established the global ulti idea as a viable strategy, albeit gimmicky.
Kwom/Mania - both very good Sand King players, stupidly good gankers with that hero while average with every one else, except the Tiny for Mania.
Misery - PotM and Storm, plays aggressive with those. Morph to some extent. He really plays well when the hero has some kind of built in escape and really struggles when they don't.
Vigoss - Aggressive ganker who honestly in my opinion is only made famous by the team he was on; the team made him, not the other way around.
Dendi - Krobelus, forever remembered as the man who got phaseboots, krobelus and kotl all nerfed thanks to that little combo.
Travaka - Skeleton King, 20 min radiance to 30 minute Heart+SnY.
DogKAISER - you wanted to win against EMG? Ban Syllabear, or you're going to lose, period.
DoP.Emperor - Treant Protector, yeah I am soloing mid and no you aren't forcing me out.
Demon - Puck. Dagger + Euls = I am not dying. Ever.
13abyknight - Carry, most notably Broodmother. He cancels the animation on Broodmother very well and gets kills that most players wouldn't. Farms very hard. Honestly, he plays better with friends than with top flight players.
Ducky - Veno. He had one good game with Veno, that's literally it. More of a captain though, very chill person and very nice unless you are a complete douchebag, in which case Misery would have ragequit anyways after flaming you.
hi2u.Eddie - jungle Bristleback with a diffusal, sup.
Smile - Lion + Bottle + Solo = the next 30 minutes of your support will only see 2 red beams before dying. Cemented the quick Dagon build on Lion solo, but no one does that any more.
Think that's about it. Dunno if anyone else came up with any thing special.
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On June 02 2010 20:40 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 13:00 Kickstart wrote:Yeh I am also interested in player history as I had said (asked who dominated when and why), but I also find this information interesting as well. I don't know much about any dota players, only ones I have heard of are vigoss fear and merlini and I dont even know why they are famous . I'll type one up later when I am at work during down times again. Just off the top of my head, Merlini, Fear, Light, NS, Loda, Kuroky, Fachh, Hitomi, plus like 5 others. Merlini - Zeus - during the tri-lane era (where teams ran 3 heroes in one lane), his solo Zeus regularly clowned tri-lanes, hence his "tri-lanes are dead" comment/quote. Fear - Lich/Clinkz/Medusa - first two were during his time in complexity. The last one during this current version. He either played the Lich help/solo or the carry Clinkz during 6.27 and played it to perfection. Players looked towards his Clinkz for clues on how to play the hero properly while his teammate ezy's Clinkz was mindless farm. LightofHeaven - Silencer/Beastmaster - he advocated the Necro3 build on Silencer over the Midas-BoT-Meka build used earlier, and his Beastmaster is to say the least, beastly with Bottle/Dagger/Book3. Single handily made Book3 relevant after the hard bans on the item and the eventual game changes. NS - Support heroes, carefully played and on top of wards, doesn't die needlessly and controls lanes without taking creeps. Loda - SF, domination in a lane with SF, efficient, high cs and crafty. His relentless farming and antics gets him in trouble at times (especially after the nerf to Dagger). Spectre too, as it complemented his high buyback play style late. Kuroky - Meepo, Admiral, Tinker. He's young, he lanes well, his teams relies on his farm far too much though, more so than the SK teams did on Loda. Also very good with Invoker. Chu[P] - Very good Meepo/carry in general. Chu and Kuroky are both what you would call hard farmers in the sense that they both pull out CSs consistently regardless of their situation. Think Chu's dominance came at a particular Luna game where he jungled for about <40 mins and came out with about a 14k golds worth of items including a divine/aegis combo. Fachh[P] - Juggernaut. The man who started the Juggs in jungle and came out with a Radiance. Hitomi - Any heroes really, smart and patient player, like the NA version of Maelk. Maelk - Very intelligent player, the best at making in game adaptations as the in game shot caller for MYM. Most noted for Chen and Axe, gives you an idea where he stands at harassing and bothering a lane coming from the jungle. Established the global ulti idea as a viable strategy, albeit gimmicky. Kwom/Mania - both very good Sand King players, stupidly good gankers with that hero while average with every one else, except the Tiny for Mania. Misery - PotM and Storm, plays aggressive with those. Morph to some extent. He really plays well when the hero has some kind of built in escape and really struggles when they don't. Vigoss - Aggressive ganker who honestly in my opinion is only made famous by the team he was on; the team made him, not the other way around. Dendi - Krobelus, forever remembered as the man who got phaseboots, krobelus and kotl all nerfed thanks to that little combo. Travaka - Skeleton King, 20 min radiance to 30 minute Heart+SnY. DogKAISER - you wanted to win against EMG? Ban Syllabear, or you're going to lose, period. DoP.Emperor - Treant Protector, yeah I am soloing mid and no you aren't forcing me out.
Do you have anything to say about legendary godlike player hans2?
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Honestly, I haven't seen anything of hans2.
Forgot the all-star ringer, In_DEED, his Magi and Silencer are a sight, too bad school got in his way of dota.
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On June 02 2010 23:34 Judicator wrote:
Honestly, I haven't seen anything of hans2.
Forgot the all-star ringer, In_DEED, his Magi and Silencer are a sight, too bad school got in his way of dota.
hans2 legend of d-a.com years ago he would rush Aegis/Divine with every hero (or do something stupidly similar like the multi aegis build with no Boots etc), whether it was Clinkz or CM. Normally that wouldn't be so bad with the pub skill people he was playing, but he did this while autoattacking and posted every damn replay ("epic" "hans2"). He also posted on balance form with 12 year old grammar.
edit:
Oh yeah, Inde_ed played for the clan hans2, which was a joke off of the original hans2.
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You faggots are derailing the thread.
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EPT
