EPTYou've yet to show any proof, quantitative that is.
What you're claiming doesn't make much sense and as far as I'm aware it's been debunked in regards to how the engine would parse it so the burden of proof would fall entirely on you.
CS:GO Sensitivity Problem - Page 2
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Nixer
2774 Posts
You've yet to show any proof, quantitative that is. What you're claiming doesn't make much sense and as far as I'm aware it's been debunked in regards to how the engine would parse it so the burden of proof would fall entirely on you. | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
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Turi
Germany86 Posts
Unless you have a 100K monitor, you will not get a measurable difference. And even then you would not be able to notice the difference yourself without help of some software. So even if you are right, it would still not matter. | ||
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weqn
31 Posts
On July 26 2016 12:57 Nixer wrote: Is this a troll? This has been showing up a lot lately. You've yet to show any proof, quantitative that is. What you're claiming doesn't make much sense and as far as I'm aware it's been debunked in regards to how the engine would parse it so the burden of proof would fall entirely on you. that post is confirmed in the 2013 SDK, source sdk 2013 is correct = m_pitch 0.022 m_yaw 0.022 we are in 2016; It has been changed and there are bugs everywhere who are being fixed day after day This has to do with the fact of how the outputs will handle the floats , Source Engine is not perfect , as you can see trailing zeros make the difference may be slight , which is slight , but still make a difference. an amount that will not notice for casual players but professional players will notice . Situational example : this is like having a football cleats weighing 500g for other weighing 100g , who will have better performance? probably a difference that casual players do not notice the difference but professional players do. CS:GO is top world e-sport , there needs to be awareness in these aspects so that everything is for the best experience in competitive edge . | ||
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weqn
31 Posts
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weqn
31 Posts
On July 26 2016 19:13 Turi wrote: Ok, even if (and i do not think that this is so) you have a difference of 0.0000096 (~10⁻⁵) between vertical and horizontal movement. Unless you have a 100K monitor, you will not get a measurable difference. And even then you would not be able to notice the difference yourself without help of some software. So even if you are right, it would still not matter. And, do not forget that after the float , the sensitivity adds ingame value and windows (if raw input off ) which will cause that there is this slight difference , so yes regardless of screen size , yes , you will notice the difference. | ||
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weqn
31 Posts
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weqn
31 Posts
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Turi
Germany86 Posts
Also how does adding static data like window size have a influence on a simple difference? If you add the date you get the same absolute difference, and if you multiply you get same relative difference. And in this case both are so small that you get no measurable difference not matter what you do to the data. To stay in your strange example: The difference between your two footballs cleats would not be 400 g. 500 g * 10^-5** are 5 mg. That is easily in spec. Two real footballs cleats will have a higher difference between them, even if they are the same model from the same manufacturer. And if the difference would be a thousand times bigger, you would still not notice a 5 g difference on 500 g football cleats (they would no longer be in spec, but that's precision engineering for you and also on longer relevant for this topic). And you still have not shown that there is an actual difference btw. The way to measure it would to try to move your mouse*** in a 45° angle. If the resulting line has a different angle than 45°, one direction is measurable faster than the other. This has the nice feature of not needing two additional time measurements, which are less precise than a angle measurement. Of course if you do it by software, a simple "move mouse in a line on x and on y for n seconds and record travel distance" could do the trick if you are very careful. * I'm spit balling here, i do not have research on what difference in mouse movement can be noticed by a human. But considering that both movements are independent of each other and the hand movement is so different between sideways and for/backwards, i think that this is a save guess. ** I using the absolut difference, not the relative. While at first this felt wrong, we are talking about floating point errors here. The relative difference changes, but the absolut difference will always stay around ~10^-5 for this case, *** Not by hand, your hand movement is not precise enough for such a measurement. | ||
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weqn
31 Posts
 Also how does adding static data like window size have the influence on the simple difference? The screen size does not influence anything, this aspect is purely around the sensitivity and the screen size will not influence anything And you still have not shown que there is an actual difference btw Indeed not, the only thing I can give you is the feedback I got in my experiments, as well as people who also did, and confirmed that indeed there is a slight difference. I do not have the knowledge to do this kind of testing "mechanical / programmable" If you possess knowledge to do so please give a step forward, or some of those who are reading eventually. I do not have research on what difference in mouse movement can be noticed by the human If the noted difference was so small it hardly could feel, this issue was no longer relevant, and I would not waste time trying to expose you. What happens is that in fact the mouse movement speed varies between these two settings is not something exaggerated, is not something tiny, but it is something light. And if this gets fixed we will have the same speed of horizontal mouse movement equal to vertical, which can, and I firmly believe that will surely improve in a certain way the accuracy of each player. This is ugly programming. Your hand movement is not enough need for such a measurement If I do not understand programming and coding, how do you explain the fact that I find that there is something different between these two settings then ? Believe me, if you are familiar with the game , you 'll be able to notice that there is a difference with regard to the movement of the mouse speed . I use the same setup for years, I can quickly identify differences; and as I told you I'm not the one to say that there is difference. | ||
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Turi
Germany86 Posts
a) Placebo effect (that is not a attack against you btw) That is a real possibility here. You have yourself convinced that you have different movement speeds in different directions. Now you feel these differences, even if there is none. Human brains are stupid in this way and are easily fooled. That is why we need actual measurements, not feelings, to determine the truth. That could also explain why there is a small group of people convinced of the same thing but not everyone (like it would be if there was a an actual difference). You have all convinced each other. Group dynamics are horrible. b) An other bug There could be an other bug that only hits a small group of people and results in different movement speeds. But i do not believe at all that your explanation could be right. The difference would be just that small. And most likely not even there, considering that it does not make sense for the compiler to keep trailing zeros, | ||
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Bacillus
Finland1926 Posts
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weqn
31 Posts
I would like to be wrong about this, because it's quite frustrating to know that something that is working in the wrong way and not have way to scientifically prove because I do not have that kind of knowledge. I think this has to do with Source Engine and not with external settings , I let my setup anyway : 400 dpi 1.8 sensitivity 6/11 windows pointer speed Enhance pointer precision OFF 500hz refresh rate m_customaccel 0 m_rawinput 0 I do not know if this happens to m_rawinput 1 , but it should happen because this is something related to ingame factors by default and not with windows . | ||
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weqn
31 Posts
so that it is proven that there is a difference ? please help! | ||
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weqn
31 Posts
On July 28 2016 19:33 Bacillus wrote: I might take a bit of a look out of curiosity later on, I probably should know these things. The initial gut feeling is that the inaccuracy here is negligible compared to all the other inaccuracies you experience due to hardware, mouse surface, drivers and rest of the CS:GO input handling (assuming it actually exists in the first place). Do you know any way to test both performances in order to prove that there is a difference? | ||
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weqn
31 Posts
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weqn
31 Posts
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bduddy
United States1326 Posts
On July 31 2016 22:16 weqn wrote: Find a friend. Explain it to him. Have him set it up one way, and not tell you which one. Test it out, and report your findings. Then have him switch the settings, and test it again. This isn't perfect, because he knows the difference - to minimize any possible effects, minimize any kind of contact with your friend during the experiment (talking to him, etc.).Do you know any way to test both performances in order to prove that there is a difference? And stop triple posting... | ||
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cptmcgroovy
1 Post
It is very well known that the change in resolution changes the sensitivity, though I fail to see how this backs up your arguments? Obviously, 1.8 is the same as 1.800000, there's hardly any possible debate about this, that picture merely says that resolution affects sensitivity, which I've personally known since the late 90's/early 2000's by playing Quake etc.. I think you're mixing things up here tbh. btw you should put rawinput on 1. | ||
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weqn
31 Posts
On August 02 2016 10:43 bduddy wrote: Find a friend. Explain it to him. Have him set it up one way, and not tell you which one. Test it out, and report your findings. Then have him switch the settings, and test it again. This isn't perfect, because he knows the difference - to minimize any possible effects, minimize any kind of contact with your friend during the experiment (talking to him, etc.). And stop triple posting... I did that already, but that is trash to valve, they think its a "montage" I do not know how to prove it scientifically. It is something that you feel the mouse movement with respect to mouse sensitivity . I'm not the only one that I share this opinion , many others who tested also able to identify the difference , so we are players and not programmers, so do not have the necessary knowledge to prove scientifically ; or in some way that makes it clear the difference in the mouse movement speed people say: 0.022 and 0.022000 are the same number ; i agree , but 0.022000 feels faster than 0.022 what is the explanation for this? what may be causing this difference in mathematically correct values ? this is what has to be proven , but how? | ||
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