Algue suggested it a couple days ago so I thought I'd go ahead and create a thread for all CSGO mapping-related things.
Purpose of the thread
This thread is for you to upload sketches, screenshots or videos of your work-in-progress or done CSGO maps (classic/jump/kz/demolition whatever) and for everybody else to discuss them. You can also ask for help on map making and Hammer problems. You can even try and use the thread to get a couple of interest TLers together for a playtest!
NOTE: This is not a thread for extensive discussion of the map design in currently active maps, only talk about existing popular maps when it's in relation to map ideas posted here!
Etiquette
If you're commenting on someone's map, especially if it's fleshed out already, do take note that you're most likely talking about a significant passion project of them. Respect their work, even if you see issues with it. Be critical but stay constructive and fair.
If you're a map maker, keep in mind that you need to take constructive criticism to heart in order to improve. Feedback is incredibly valuable - do not brush it off or get defensive about it.
Resources
3kliksphilip (creator of de_sparity) has a large number of informative tutorial videos on Source mapping which apply to CSGO as well.
FMPONE is the maker of de_cache, the de_season remake and de_crown, currently working on de_mirage2 and de_santorini, and is uploading VODs of live twitch.tv tutorials.
TopHATTwaffle made de_facade and has uploaded a bunch of helpful Hammer tutorials.
World of Level Design have a number of CS:GO map making tutorials and another series covering general level design techniques.
Me and a friend of mine recently made de_spice. A classic competitive 5v5 map set in a Middle-Eastern town. How original!
As you can see, the map is based on a fairly classic layout with an important mid that features connectors to both bomb sites. Here's a video of me running through it and two more flavor screenshots:
Please let me know what you think of the layout and execution. This took us a couple of months, I was more involved in the layout, he was doing most of the textures and details. It's my first map, I know there's a lot of things to improve on but I've definitely learned a ton.
If anybody wants to try it out ingame, let me know. The workshop link is here:
A site seems very difficult to peek or push as a CT. The Terrorists get to A main before CTs do, so any peek there will be instant death. The sandbox area can't really be held with one CT since there's just so many ways for Ts to get there - you're forced into playing A super passively in the site. Since the Ts control A main, they have a number of options for executes and there's going to be a lot of exciting action there.
Apartments is a neat and unique idea, but may be overly complex. There's like... 8 paths to get into B site. That makes callouts difficult for CTs. Timing for B site seems funny - do the Ts and CTs arrive at the same time? Also, I'm concerned about rotation. If the T's are pressing B, it looks like the only way for CTs to rotate is through apartments.
Great job with your first map! I'd love to play it and see how it works.
On March 03 2015 23:45 Crownlol wrote: Wow, your map is beautiful!
Initial impressions from a gameplay perspective:
A site seems very difficult to peek or push as a CT. The Terrorists get to A main before CTs do, so any peek there will be instant death. The sandbox area can't really be held with one CT since there's just so many ways for Ts to get there - you're forced into playing A super passively in the site. Since the Ts control A main, they have a number of options for executes and there's going to be a lot of exciting action there.
Apartments is a neat and unique idea, but may be overly complex. There's like... 8 paths to get into B site. That makes callouts difficult for CTs. Timing for B site seems funny - do the Ts and CTs arrive at the same time? Also, I'm concerned about rotation. If the T's are pressing B, it looks like the only way for CTs to rotate is through apartments.
Great job with your first map! I'd love to play it and see how it works.
Thank you very much! Me and my friend did do a lot of 'timing': we started as CT/T each and ran along all the different courses in the map and checked where we would optimally meet. In general, Ts are quite a bit later everywhere compared to how the minimap image makes it look because they spawn in the upper floor and have to drop down to ground level first.
I do agree with your points on A regardless. CTs and Ts can meet in the 'sandbox' next to the big two silos BUT that would be fairly insane to do as CT, instead it makes more sense to hide in the warehouse somewhere, making it a passive site as you say.
About B: yeah, there's the apartement entrance to B bombsite, there's the sniper window next to it, there's connector, there's garage AND there's the tunnel (B long). Our idea was that the default setup for CTs should be 2 at A, 2 in mid (one holding mid from sniper next, the other holding the sniper's flank in apps) and then the last guy to play B site, since now noone can come into that site except the long tunnel and, if they're very sneaky/quiet, garage. I think it's possible to set up like that for CTs but compared to the CT-sided maps we have at the moment, there sure are TONS of ways into B. The timing works out so that CTs are in B site a good couple of seconds before Ts can get into sight from our tests!
About rotations: if Ts are pressing B, CTs can retake through apartements, as you said (which is two routes really, kinda like Dust2 B site with window and double doors), and they could also push into mid and use the connector as well. Or, if there's time, it's even possible to rush down apartements, go over the plank and retake from the back through garage.
Hope this answers some of the questions. A lot of it is speculation and you do make good points, ultimately we never could get 5v5 games of really good players to play on our map so it's a bit improvised.
Anybody and everybody who needs playtesting feel free to add me I am down to play some games and give some good feedback. I have a little bit of experience with Hammer/level design in general.
Hey there, great work NihiL. The classic elements of the map, like mid and its connectors look really good. And i love the ideas for the bombsites. The little garden area at B or the crack on A doors are some really refreshing elements. I'm really curious on how the bombsites would play out. But i have to agree that the whole apartements area is way to big and complex and it takes away the focus on the normal connectors to the sites. But on the other hand ... what do i know xD. Good job. Keep it up.
Okay so the majority of people here and on the CS map making subreddit are saying that apartments are too complex. I wonder if that's mostly because I did a piss poor job of showing them in the video and even said they were complicated myself. They are not as crazy as they look at first and I think in an actual game most people would understand them fairly quickly.
It's just that big 'loop' (like a square, or a street 'block'), each corner goes somewhere else, one goes into CT spawn, one into B bombsite, one goes to the sniper nest into B bombsite and one goes to bedroom. Bedroom then goes into a linear corridor where you have the sniper window into mid, then the wooden plank and then the T entrance to apps. That's it.
This is where actual in-game testing would come in I guess!
On March 04 2015 22:25 NihiLStarcraft wrote: Thank you very much for the feedback!
Okay so the majority of people here and on the CS map making subreddit are saying that apartments are too complex. I wonder if that's mostly because I did a piss poor job of showing them in the video and even said they were complicated myself. They are not as crazy as they look at first and I think in an actual game most people would understand them fairly quickly.
It's just that big 'loop' (like a square, or a street 'block'), each corner goes somewhere else, one goes into CT spawn, one into B bombsite, one goes to the sniper nest into B bombsite and one goes to bedroom. Bedroom then goes into a linear corridor where you have the sniper window into mid, then the wooden plank and then the T entrance to apps. That's it.
This is where actual in-game testing would come in I guess!
I think it's not because apartements has such a crazy labyrinth layout. The problem is there are way too many angles to check inside apartements. Imagine a 1on1, you're CT and you're trying to get to the bomb on B through apts. You basically have to waste 1 minute or so just to clear out all the angles. But as you say, it all comes down to actual game testing. Everything else is just opinion. Maybe we can setup a TL 5on5 de_spice test session.
I just managed to push out version 1.2 of the map. This is in preparation for a Reddit testing session this Tuesday (feel free to join if you have time, I don't have any further infos quite yet but usually there's an announcement over at reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive). Here are the changes:
- Added callouts to the map - Swapped bombsites A and B - Reworked bombsite A with better cover - Added A/B signs and arrows for easier navigation - Added more details (better textures/props/decals/trims) - Fixed exploits where two players could boost themselves on top of the level geometry near balcony - Made some geometry and props non-solid to make player movement easier
On March 03 2015 08:55 NihiLStarcraft wrote: Me and a friend of mine recently made de_spice. A classic competitive 5v5 map set in a Middle-Eastern town. How original!
As you can see, the map is based on a fairly classic layout with an important mid that features connectors to both bomb sites. Here's a video of me running through it and two more flavor screenshots:
Please let me know what you think of the layout and execution. This took us a couple of months, I was more involved in the layout, he was doing most of the textures and details. It's my first map, I know there's a lot of things to improve on but I've definitely learned a ton.
If anybody wants to try it out ingame, let me know. The workshop link is here:
One thing you want to focus on when making a competitive map is making it as simplistic as possible. My first impression with this map (de_spice) is that there was way too many objects and small hallways. The map looks like a very fun casual map that would be played in public servers but if your goal is to have this map played in professional matches it needs to be rethought. If you want more specific advice you can pm me!
Hey daps! First of all, it's an honor to have a pro like you look at my map and post here on the forums, that's really really awesome! ♥
I absolutely agree with what you're saying. There has to be a balance between simplicity and looks I think. Make it too detailed (like you say Spice is, and I agree) and it's not good for competitive, but make it too simple and bland and nobody is going to play it either. That's something Cache did really well I think, it's extremely simple and easy to 'read' and yet not ugly or blocky in any way.
Sending you a PM now for more specific advice, thanks again for taking a look, you rock!
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M4wK6Gr.png)
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