General Discussion - Page 110

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lestye

United States4184 Posts

February 11 2016 15:48 GMT

#2181

They basically have 2 Fantasy universes and 2 Scifi Universes now.

But Starcraft/Diablo/Hearthstone/Warcraft are games inside of Overwatch's universe. So take that what you will. Actually someone during last Blizzcon's Q&A asked for a Blizzcon map, and Chris Metzen said they toyed around the idea (no concrete plans, just an idea) of a "Blizzney land" (they laughed and said that name would change because

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16935 Posts

February 11 2016 16:22 GMT

#2182

after some digging,

Overwatch is a near future earth.. 60 years in to the future.so its not really Sci-Fi.. its more like Blade Runner... futurism.
SC is pure Sci-Fi like Star Wars and is 500 years into the future with planet earth being a bit player.

So ya, SC is Blizzard's only Sci-Fi universe.

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

February 11 2016 16:31 GMT

#2183

By your definition I, Robot wouldn't be science fiction.

That said I don't even get the point of the argument. Why does it even matter?

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

February 11 2016 16:36 GMT

#2184

Blade Runner is Sci-fi. Stories about the future are general considered sci-fi and then a descriptor is added on for further clarification.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16935 Posts

February 11 2016 17:24 GMT

#2185

On February 12 2016 01:36 Plansix wrote:
Blade Runner is Sci-fi.

not according to Harrison Ford... his answer to .. "is it Sci- Fi" ... is "not really".

NonY

8751 Posts

February 11 2016 17:28 GMT

#2186

On February 12 2016 02:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

Show nested quote +

not according to Harrison Ford... his answer to .. "is it Sci- Fi" ... is "not really".

sci fi wasn't respected as a serious genre at the time. he probably said it to avoid the negative connotation of the genre. it is definitely sci fi

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

February 11 2016 17:33 GMT

#2187

Also, anything Harrison Ford says in an interview should be taken with a grain of salt. That man hates interviews, marketing and pretty much anything movie related that isn't working on a film itself and drinking wine when not working.

Simberto

Germany11620 Posts

February 11 2016 17:37 GMT

#2188

On February 12 2016 01:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
after some digging,

Overwatch is a near future earth.. 60 years in to the future.so its not really Sci-Fi.. its more like Blade Runner... futurism.
SC is pure Sci-Fi like Star Wars and is 500 years into the future with planet earth being a bit player.

So ya, SC is Blizzard's only Sci-Fi universe.

Star Wars is the worst example of "Pure SciFi" that you could give. Star Wars is one of the least SciFi things set in space. It has magic knights running around in space doing space wizardry.

The idea that spaceships make something scifi, and the lack of spaceships make it not scifi, ist not really one that is commonly held.

SciFi is about technology and its effect on humanity. That can either be via extrapolating current science a bit further, and looking what would happen, or just making something up "What if peoples consciousness could be stored safely, and be placed in a surrogate body if something goes wrong?".

Cyberpunk for example is definitively SciFi, despite the complete lack of space ships, while Star Wars is distinctly not SciFi, because one of the main aspects of the universe has no grounding in any fake science, but is basically a mix between magic and religion, and noone even tries to do any science to explain it. Star Wars is best described as Science Fantasy in my (and not only my) opinion.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16935 Posts

February 11 2016 17:59 GMT

#2189

whatever label its given , numerically its something like this : Overwatch is around 2070 AD and Starcraft is 2500 AD

Dangermousecatdog

United Kingdom7084 Posts

February 11 2016 18:12 GMT

#2190

I wouldn't call Harrison Ford an expert on what is SciFi and what isn't, but either way overwatch is a SciFi universe with its self aware AI and apes and space colonies on the moon, whilst Star Wars cannot be called a "pure scifi" in both common or literary parlance. Not that it matters, though I am curious as to why you convulate yourself to describe Overwatch as not a ScFi universe. No one cares or disputes the time setting of Starcraft or Overwatch.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16935 Posts

February 11 2016 19:07 GMT

#2191

On February 12 2016 03:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
though I am curious as to why you convulate yourself to describe Overwatch as not a ScFi universe. No one cares or disputes the time setting of Starcraft or Overwatch.

its in my first couple of posts on Feb. 12 ; i answered it myself when i found Blizzard's quote about "a near future earth". the actual year #s in the lore are congruent with Blizzard's descriptive terms.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

February 11 2016 20:35 GMT

#2192

scifi and fantasy are pretty lose terms. They can pretty much mean anything, especially scifi.

But never use starwars as a scifi example, since people who are out for a discussion about terms that only have a lose definition will pick it apart. The whole it happened in the past and the force are things that will make it tough to defend it.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

February 11 2016 20:45 GMT

#2193

Star Wars is as much science fiction as anything else. It’s is pulp sci-fi, like the Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers it was based on. There is a reason we put terms like Hard sci-fi and noir sci-fi in front of most movies. It is a broad genre, like thrillers or horror.

Yoav

United States1874 Posts

February 11 2016 21:09 GMT

#2194

In vidja games, "Science Fiction" can be used to refer to a setting or to a genre.

In fiction proper, Sci-Fi is a genre, and is defined by genre conventions (transition from a dying old world to a new one; technology as a key plot point; questioning idea of humanity/the soul; etc.)

Star Wars is not Sci-Fi in genre (even if it is in setting) because honestly the death star is the only technology that isn't easily write-out-able.

Starcraft is... a new age is dawning (end of the cycle in SC2, redefinition of zerg and protoss in SC1), technology plays key plot roles (psi emitters, xel'naga temples, planet-cracking weapons, genetic manipulation, etc.), questions of humanity (dark and high templar and hive-minds proper, various hybrids, Kerrigan's constant question.)

Blade Runner is also Sci-Fi. So is Mass Effect. So are most Zombie films, even those set in the past, present, or near future.

Firefly, on the other hand, isn't really, though the movie Serenity is more-so.

yookstah

Australia655 Posts

February 12 2016 00:58 GMT

#2195

I'm amazed you guys can spend a page arguing about genres and their definitions!

Some of my thoughts on the current game and patch, after playing a few hours of the return (previous beta player) which I posted on over.gg and the OW forums

All healing effects now work on shields. This is pretty good for Zenyatta, small buff to Symettra’s usefulness, AND, most importantly, buffs the crap out of Zarya. I can see her being picked more and more, now.
Display changes to make enemy effects more noticeable is nice. You may have seen a Mei ice block at long range before and at a glance wasn’t 100% sure it was an enemy or teammate - now you know.
Muzzle flash down for a lot of weapons is definitely welcome. Soldier 76 was especially nightmarish to play in the past.
Ultimate changes are pretty cool. I would still prefer if you lost a bit of your charge when you died. I understand the competitive game mode isn’t set in stone for how it’s going to be played, and people haven’t figured it out, but it’d be annoying if it devolves into teams playing passive waiting for ults ala tf2 waiting for uber.
Bastion changes are interesting. Can’t really sneak behind him too easily anymore, and you can’t do the good ol fly at him as D.va with def matrix on to kill him super quickly. Definitely needs to be focused down quickly - Charged widowmaker + a few rockets at the same time should do the trick. Treat him like a heavy in TF2!
D.va changes weren’t enough IMO. Her defensive/offensive prowess wasn’t just strong for her def matrix, it was her mobility. Maybe nerf the boost by tuning its cd or duration.
Mercy changes are BIG. Actually has to be in harms way to be able to get a proper res off. Will probably need a zarya shield or monkey to protect her when ressing in some situations for sure. Good positioning even more important.
Pharah ‘nerf’ made me a little sad. A bit harder to max the usage of your boost when climbing over some areas to go for a sneaky flank, but I can understand the reasoning when you had people hanging out on Hollywood last cap.
Reinhardt nerfs very very good, plus the minor ‘buffs’ to compensate end up going alright for the hero. His damage definitely was pretty damn ridiculous. I think the stun duration needs to turn down a little bit tho. maybe by 10-15%? thereabouts.
Not sure exactly about the Roadhog interaction. I think you can still either rewind/ghost form this at the end (unless the roadhog has good ping maybe). Need someone else to confirm
Soldier 76 bit too strong now, imo. Great mobility, even better dps, and his long range is still good. You can just bink people across the map with your first 5(?) accurate bullets, stop shooting for a sec, rinse and repeat. Maybe make it more like 3 shots, or increase the ‘cooldown’ between 100% accurate and not 100%? Can see him becoming almost staple in comp play.
Symmetra change is p neat. Some people in pub were able to have a huge teleporter uptime which would have been a menace.
Torbjorn changes are quite big. He’s essentially a mini sentry engineer now, with a better weapon, PLUS he drops armor for his team which is very useful. Maybe tune down the range on the turrets, though, just slightly!
Zenyatta. Surprised this hero didn’t get tuned. I understand he’s super damn squishy and his mobility sucks ass, but OoD is just too damn strong. You can cast it almost halfway across the map and just keep tabs on one dude too long. Pharah giving your team problems? What about a Genji? Not a problem. You now have permanent wallhack on that guy, and you can either kill him yourself or just tell your team where they are/track them yourselves. Reduce the max range cast and/or give it a duration. I don't feel you disadvantage your team that much, if at all, if you aren't swapping it to dudes you wanna focus in fights.
Interface changes they made are pretty neat. Finally a kill feed - woohoo! Scoreboard statistics are nice, too. However, I feel they need to really rework the whole overlay of the scoreboard. Just make it like TF2’s one tbh!
A lot better visual indicators now, especially for something like Mei’s ult. Very useful.
New game mode is pretty fun. I think the potential duration for the rounds is too short, though. I understand it’s bo3, but even a max duration game with all 3 games being played (EDIT probably isn’t long enough. Not sure how they can tweak this. The map is pretty fun, too.
Haven’t played the new CP map yet. I keep getting it then getting popped into another game/map.

I didn't touch on some stuff that I probably should have (maybe notably McCree, for one), but this was just stuff that I picked up after a few hours.

WolfintheSheep

Canada14127 Posts

February 12 2016 02:38 GMT

#2196

One of the most definitive Science Fiction books/movies made is called 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Take a guess when it's set.

lestye

United States4184 Posts

February 12 2016 02:45 GMT

#2197

On February 12 2016 11:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:

Show nested quote +

One of the most definitive Science Fiction books/movies made is called 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Take a guess when it's set.

I'd argue that the fact there's artificial life, which gains sentience which causes conflict/destruction in the world. That's like a huge staple of the scifi genre.

Granted, there's also spiritual aspects like, the robots actually having souls, but its more scifi than fantasy. It's just not hard scifi.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16935 Posts

February 12 2016 03:03 GMT

#2198

On February 12 2016 11:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:

Show nested quote +

One of the most definitive Science Fiction books/movies made is called 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Take a guess when it's set.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/11/6/9670176/starcraft-2-future-history-dlc-blizzard

Sigaty says SC is Blizzard's sci-fi universe .. their "star wars."... his words .. not mine.
Blizz describes Overwatch as a "near future earth".
i've already provided the exact year of each franchise in a previous post and its congruent with the terms they use.

i'm sure Sigaty's got a twitter account ... maybe u can help him update his previous comments to Polygon

WolfintheSheep

Canada14127 Posts

February 12 2016 03:57 GMT

#2199

On February 12 2016 12:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

Show nested quote +

It must be a joy conversing with someone as literally minded as you.

When a marketer tells you they're "redefining the genre", do you think they're actually changing the dictionary definition?

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

February 12 2016 04:06 GMT

#2200

If there is one thing I have learned about Jimmy, he never admits he wrong. Ever. He will always find a quote, note or citation to say "nah, look right here, I'm right," even if it totally doesn't apply. Overwatch is sci-fi, there be teleporters and robots. Full stop.

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