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On May 05 2013 15:51 On_Slaught wrote:WTF? Rose has said he is 95% and won't play? Heard a discussion about this in ESPN radio with some players who had ACL tears. You'll never feel the same. They actually said "you may have a new 100%. Your new 100% may be 95%. Either way you don't know until you go out there and try, otherwise you'll 'i just need a little more time' yourself right out of the league." Not like Rose hasn't been playing 2 whole months in full contact practice or anything. Sure, he shouldn't play if he is convinced that he isn't ready. However, the fact he isn't ready shows he isn't nearly as mentally tough or elite as other stars. Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 14:02 DystopiaX wrote:
Dude's saying his shit is burning after he scrimmages. Doubt he'd be able to play even in the D-league. Noah said he could literally barely walk going into this series and played through it. That is toughness. That is somebody who wants to win. Rose doesn't care enough, otherwise he'd be on the court. Period.
I have not heard this anywhere.
I'm not one to question the will of an athlete at all. Especially DRose. If he thought he was good to play, he'd play. Period. If he's out it's because he's not ready.
Plus with the guy never actually playing a game this season assuming he could come back and be actually helpful in a series is doubtful. Even if he could if it somehow damages his body in any way it would be something I wouldn't want, this is just one year and with him healthy we can contend for several.
When we first got the news and people knew that DRose could potentially, however unlikely, lose him for the whole year pretty much everyone said that it would be worth it for the Bulls to have as much patience as necessary and to give DRose his time to get back. I think it's dumb that people think otherwise now that we're actually in it because we happen to have beat a scrub team, or that people think that he's playing like an All-Star now but choosing to stay out of games because he's lazy.
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The situation is stupid, whichever which way you look at it. If the season was winding down and Rose didn't feel like he could go, he should have just said he's out. Even if he was ready the last day of the season, it would have been dumb to play his first games back in the playoffs. I honestly don't know why the management hasn't just put their foot down to stop the rumor mill. Unless they do have a hope that he'll be ready. In which case the buck is back on him and I don't know what he's waiting for, like he's going to wake up one day and be ready.
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I honestly don't know where he's at, but I will agree that it's been handled rather poorly PR-wise. If I were the Bulls I wouldn't have released the "medically cleared" news at all because it's been some of the most misleading, medically cleared isn't the same as being ready to play and the same doctors that cleared him also said that them doing so didn't mean that he should step on the court next day, and basically said what he's been saying- that the mental part of his injury is still something he should deal with and to not come back till he feels like he's ready. But not enough people heard that so they just think "oh he was cleared to play so clearly he's a pussy/scumbag for not doing so" which isn't true at all.
Also agree with you about how he shouldn't play his first games in the playoffs. If I were them I would have shut it down by now. After Mid-April passed and he wasn't back I just wanted them to shut him down for the rest of the season, no point in struggling and putting up shitty numbers Rubio/Shump style trying to get better when the team's trying to win in the playoffs and his presence would probably be more of a detriment at that point.
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But if he's not mentally cleared to play, that still means he's a pussy. (to the fans anyways).
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Judging a player when they don't really know his situation is dumb.
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On D-Rose...
He won the MVP recently, he is a truly the highest calibre of player. Anyone in that category would be happily welcomed back by his team at any moment... especially an injury ridden team (which is why the Bulls management isn't closing the door on his return and squashing rumors). It's been a pretty popular topic for a while now (if you are just now hearing about it). He's been cleared to play for a while and been involved in full contact practice for a while also. It seems as if everyone is just hoping and praying he decides to say "okay I'll play".. which is not what you would expect from someone in his position.
I give the man the benefit of the doubt, but he's definitely hurting his rep. Once you reach that calibre of player (MVP quality), you would play to see how well you do and not fear failure.
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On May 05 2013 17:24 wei2coolman wrote:
But if he's not mentally cleared to play, that still means he's a pussy. (to the fans anyways).
Those aren't fans. They are dumbass people who thinks Rose owes it to them to play.
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On May 05 2013 17:26 DystopiaX wrote:
Judging a player when they don't really know his situation is dumb.
Who said majority of NBA fans are smart?
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I'd expect more from the posters in this thread at least.
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United States16096 Posts
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also because it's on-topic now I'll leave this here from Bill Simmon's last column:
Q: Can you hold it against Derrick Rose for not coming back?
Absolutely not. See, Gilbert Arenas affected the NBA in four ways …
1. He's the first NBA star who tapped into the potential of connecting with fans on the Internet (with his groundbreaking Agent Zero blog). Then Twitter happened, and Facebook, and Instagram, and now we're at a point where Kobe could run for president because he's so good at social media. In fact, I think I'd vote for him in 2016. As long as he wasn't running with Dwight Howard.
2. After he bolted Golden State for the Wizards, they named a rule after him — the Gilbert Arenas provision, which makes it easier for teams to sign their own restricted free agents who were second-round picks.
3. They also named three unwritten rules after him: "Don't bet large sums of money with teammates during poker games on chartered flights," "Don't bring guns into the locker room for any reason," and "Don't give someone a massive nine-figure contract if you're not positive he's healthy."
4. He's the all-time "came back too soon" cautionary tale for anyone who suffered a major knee injury. Gilbert tore a meniscus near the tail end of the 2006-07 season, came back too soon, reinjured it in November, missed much of the season, came back too soon a second time, reinjured his knee in the playoffs, came back too soon the following fall, had a third surgery, and ended up playing 15 games total in two years. Make no mistake — he was NEVER the same.
Now? He's a cautionary tale, the name that floats through the head of any player who wants to keep pushing himself to play, feels really good … but doesn't totally trust his knee yet. Magic Johnson's biggest professional regret is coming back too soon during the 1981 season. He knew his surgically repaired knee didn't feel right, but as Magic tells it, you start feeling that pressure from every direction. Fans, teammates, coaches, the owner, you name it. And it's not even intentional. Might even be something as simple as someone saying, "How's the knee feeling?," only they make eye contact for an extra second and you start thinking, Does he not believe me? You get in your own head. You feel guilty all the time. Your confidence is shaken. You can't do the one thing that always came easiest to you. So you start pushing yourself to come back, tricking yourself, convincing yourself to feel a certain way. And that's when you can get in trouble.
As Magic put it, When you're ready, you know. If you're wondering even a little? Then you don't know. I think that's where Derrick Rose is right now. He's in his own head. He doesn't totally trust his knee yet. His hammies still hurt. And yet … he feels horrible that he can't help his team. So he's vacillating, and fortunately, GILBERT ARENAS keeps flashing through his head in all caps. Over everything else, that's Arenas's real legacy. Nobody wants to be The Next Guy Who Came Back Too Soon.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9239387/thirty-questions-part-2
for the full thing.
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On May 05 2013 18:25 Ace wrote:![[image loading]](http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/766352528.jpg?1367719187)
lol :D
healthiest bull sitting on the bench #thereturn.
Guys, I don't think anyone actually think Rose owes it to us to play, we just find the situation funny that he (read: adidas) hyped up his return so much only to ride the bench as the healthiest player on his team. He probably couldn't contribute 40+ minutes, sure, but give his team 3 minutes and the crowd something to cheer for? They might actually think they can beat the heat without him if he does that !
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United States22883 Posts
I'm sure they're annoyed that players are dropping like flies and he won't come in, but I don't think the Bulls are better with him playing against the Heat. Maybe if it was the start of the playoffs or earlier, but there's a huge adjustment to NBA speed (no, he doesn't get that from practice - especially since teams are mostly doing walkthroughs near the end of the season and playoffs) and his play style doesn't fit with this current team that well. He'll be a TO machine with poor communication.
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the fact that rose and his pr team is using muscle memory as an excuse to continue to sit out is just laughable. explain to me how a professional athlete who's been playing basketball his entire life and already has had 2 months to rehab/practice/etc is still experiencing muscle memory issues?
i'm sure most of the people in this thread who play basketball can agree that even if we don't touch a basketball for 20 years it wouldn't take us 2 fkin months to re learn shooting and etc. there's obviously a difference in the level of difficulty in what rose is doing but the point still stands.
i mean if your going to come up with an excuse to not let him play might as well just continue saying it's a mental issue or say that he reaggrivated his knee. i don't know maybe i'm missing something here, but i think he needs to get his ass on the court to try and at least help his team or just come out and say he isn't coming back this year.
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There's a pretty big fucking difference from your pickup games to the fucking NBA in a playoff series. I think anyone who has any knowledge of professional sports could tell you that.
Nate Robinson has been playing pretty solid overall. Coming back from an injury and right into playoff basketball I doubt he could perform better.
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I think in the case of Derrick Rose; it's a combo of bad PR, and him babying his career. This guy has plenty of years ahead of him, one year off is not a big deal.
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On May 05 2013 18:41 Holcan wrote:lol :D healthiest bull sitting on the bench #thereturn. Guys, I don't think anyone actually think Rose owes it to us to play, we just find the situation funny that he (read: adidas) hyped up his return so much only to ride the bench as the healthiest player on his team. He probably couldn't contribute 40+ minutes, sure, but give his team 3 minutes and the crowd something to cheer for? They might actually think they can beat the heat without him if he does that !
Yeah, it would be awesome if he did something like David Lee did and came on for like a possession or two just to pump the crowd and team up, then sat for the rest of the game.
On May 05 2013 18:58 Jibba wrote:
I'm sure they're annoyed that players are dropping like flies and he won't come in, but I don't think the Bulls are better with him playing against the Heat. Maybe if it was the start of the playoffs or earlier, but there's a huge adjustment to NBA speed (no, he doesn't get that from practice - especially since teams are mostly doing walkthroughs near the end of the season and playoffs) and his play style doesn't fit with this current team that well. He'll be a TO machine with poor communication.
Completely agree. That's why I figured maybe he could rehab in the D-League, but according to DystopiaX, he apparently wasn't/isn't even healthy enough for that.
To add some lightheartedness, Rose should have done whatever Adrian Peterson did when he rehabbed. Rose would have been as good as MJ this year : |
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If I were to pull a reason completely out of my ass, Rose's specific play style, him hop-skip-jumping all over the court, is especially stressful on his legs and ligaments, and a good reason to not come back until that magical 120%.
But realistically, he doesn't have to be "that" rose when he comes back. Rose's spot up shooting wasn't entirely all that bad. And the Bulls desperately need his passing ability. The Bulls are so ridiculously injured and tired right now, they play such a slow pace of basketball, Rose could easily go in and fill the gaps to help the team, playing at the current style, rather than "his" style.
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On May 05 2013 18:09 zoLo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 17:24 wei2coolman wrote:
But if he's not mentally cleared to play, that still means he's a pussy. (to the fans anyways). Those aren't fans. They are dumbass people who thinks Rose owes it to them to play.
Player's paychecks are so high because of the fans. If he was cleared to played two months ago, he's just being a bitch on top of his horrible PR team. Any other player would play the moment they are medically cleared from injury.
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United States22883 Posts
On May 05 2013 23:24 Daozzt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 18:09 zoLo wrote:On May 05 2013 17:24 wei2coolman wrote:
But if he's not mentally cleared to play, that still means he's a pussy. (to the fans anyways). Those aren't fans. They are dumbass people who thinks Rose owes it to them to play. Player's paychecks are so high because of the fans. If he was cleared to played two months ago, he's just being a bitch on top of his horrible PR team. Any other player would play the moment they are medically cleared from injury.
I agree he should've come back sooner. The problem is there's a lot of rust to shake off and I don't think he should shake it off against the Heat. It should've happened at the end of some regular season games.
And of course the Adidas campaign didn't help but it's easier to make predictions and talk about recovering from injury than it is to make the leap to start playing again.
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EPT
