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On November 22 2013 03:44 Rockmonsterdude wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 03:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote:FuzzyOtterBalls, one of the actual paid Twitch folk, posted this on reddit: Disclaimer: this does not constitute an official Twitch response. I am an employee of Twitch attempting to present facts which may be unknown to the general public. EDIT: This post isn't intended to address the merits of any specific bans. Those are being sorted out right now by another team.
Twitch admins are not paid employees, but community volunteers who police site behavior. They are different from Twitch Staff members who are indeed employees. Twitch admins in no way speak for Twitch as a company any more than a subreddit's mods speak for reddit (though Twitch admins' moderation powers are farther-reaching).
To my knowledge, Twitch did not contact reddit in any official or unofficial capacity to request thread removal. The actions misrepresented here as an official Twitch request were undertaken by one of the volunteers of his own volition and not at all under direction from Twitch.
Removal of Twitch streamer Cyghfer's subscriber emotes came when we received reports they weren't original art, which is one of the prerequisites for a subscriber emoticon. One of the job functions of the lead admin is to handle subscription emote submissions, so it fell to him to remove it. It is unrelated to the other issues.
The Twitch admin who banned the speedrunner for making an off-color joke is the lead admin of Twitch, and is the only admin who is also a paid employee of Twitch.
Other members of the speedrunning community took to Twitch to demand the unbanning of other speedrunners while simultaneously petitioning for the removal of Twitch's lead admin.
It is not against the Twitch Terms of Service to to express an opinion, even one critical of Twitch. However, it is explicitly against the Terms of Service (Section 12.i) to "defame, harass, abuse, threaten or defraud Users of the Twitch Service", admins and Staff also falling under the category of "Twitch User".
As a result of this movement, the lead Twitch admin became the target of a coordinated harassment campaign that included, among other things, use of the Twitch service by broadcasters to encourage viewers to personally attack Twitch's lead admin and his then-boyfriend via social media. You can peek at his Twitter @ mentions for a sampling of the harassment endured.
Not every broadcaster participating in the coordinated petition was also encouraging harassment. Behavior ran the gamut from personally directing attacks to not making a reasonable effort to stop their chat from carrying out attacks to actively attempting to prevent the harassment from occurring.
Unfortunately, all the petitioners were using the same slogan to rally viewers and support, which resulted in the mass of unruly users moving en masse from chat to chat while conducting their harassment. Admins followed and asked broadcasters to, among other things, remove the slogan in an effort to stave off the problematic users. The intention was not to stifle opinion, but to halt the harassment.
Some broadcasters were understanding and complied to help defuse the situation. Others were either already participating in the harassment or were swept up by their sudden influx of users and adopted their stance, becoming combative themselves.
It is very unclear after the fact where each of the bans issued last night falls, and our admin team is still sorting through the unban requests. At time of writing, I have unbanned werster, duke bilgewater, and have reached out to peaches regarding unbanning, but have yet to hear back. I do not know if any of the other streamers have been unbanned or had their ban appeals rejected.
We're still sorting through this mess, and the important takeaway is there's not just two sides. It's a spectrum between the various broadcasters, viewers, and even among the Twitch staff and admins. I expect to see some changes come from this and other existing moderation plans accelerated as a result. However, I am not able to share specifics regarding those plans or their timeline.
Quite a bit more over there as well. It definitely makes me agree with the characterization of the company as being run by manchildren. Yeah, I agree. Why is Mods so easy butthurt by some funny comment. If you put in your own emote just because you can. Why can't people make fun of it? It is really wierd. The Admins of twitch are really using their power the wrong way here.
Pretty sure he wasn't just mad about a simple joke about the emoticon.
(Disclaimer: Yes, I do believe the admins overreacted, too.)
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The stance that trusted volunteers who have the power to unilaterally and permanently IP-Ban highly respected streamers at whim don't count as "Twitch" for the purposes of contacting reddit in an "official or unofficial" capacity is simply disingenuous.
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On November 21 2013 22:37 wozzot wrote:lol welp, front page on reddit x2 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DZCETf6.png) Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 22:34 Danglars wrote:
End of the drama train (please god let it be so)? End of the drama train soon when more undeserved bans get reversed? The Sore Train never stops. Immortal drama, choo-choo
Unrelated note, is it just me or does [10] Guy look exactly like HuskyStarcraft?
On November 22 2013 03:54 Sn0_Man wrote:
The stance that trusted volunteers who have the power to unilaterally and permanently IP-Ban highly respected streamers at whim don't count as "Twitch" for the purposes of contacting reddit in an "official or unofficial" capacity is simply disingenuous.
Aye, I feel like Twitch is quickly going downhill but they're in such a position that they can crap on their userbase and not face repurcussions. There's no real legit competitor to Twitch at the moment.
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I wish a legitimate company like Google or just another big company would take streaming to the next level, make it something great. I know they are doing some stuff with Youtube streaming but it's not accessible and not well done at the moment. Only a few people can actually stream, there's no dedicated section of youtube to it, the interface on Twitch.tv is just way better too.
I know people are afraid of having big companies be in charge because they would be in control of all your information... but a company like Google would be competent, deal with things accordingly, etc.
It's pretty rare that people get wrongfully banned from Youtube. Some videos get taken down for stupid reasons (copyright infringement when it's not true) but overall you can't really fault them for how Google runs things (except their ridiculously stupid ideas with Google+ integration which I fucking hate, and a few things from their search engine pages like removing google translate from the top bar or not allowing you to search for porn even with safe search off...).
Ok so they're not perfect, but they're a legitimate company that isn't run by man-childs. If someone gets banned, it's usually pretty well deserved.
I would gladly take facebook or google+ integration into streaming if it meant I could have stream chat not filled with memes and spam, and that streamers would actually be cared for legitimately. Actually getting paid correctly? (I'm looking at you, own3d). Plus servers that actually work in Europe and not just in NA!? Amazing stuff.
Honestly, as long as they stayed open to all game types (for this reason I wouldn't want Microsoft to run a stream website, it would obviously be biased towards Xbox) I hope in the next few years we get a real company to involve itself in streaming. Every day, streaming because less and less niche. Especially moving forward with integration into consoles, it could easily blow up in popularity in the next few years.
Twitch does a lot of things right, but it's difficult to support them with some of their bullshit.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1r64e8/apology_official_twitch_response_to_controversy/
We at Twitch apologize for our role in what has been an unfortunate and ugly chapter for the streaming community. We'd like to repair the damage that has been done to the relationship between Twitch and the Speedrunning community, in particular.
For context, here is a summary of the events as Twitch understands they occurred:
Twitch discovered that copyrighted images had been uploaded as emoticons to cyghfer’s chatroom on Twitch. Twitch policy clearly forbids unlicensed images from being used as subscription emoticons.
One of our staff members, Horror, notified cyghfer of this violation and removed the emoticons. Additionally, of the three emoticons which were removed, only two were actually unlicensed. One of them was actually licensed under Creative Commons and should not have been removed. We have notified cyghfer of our mistake in this matter.
Several Twitch users begin looking into our general policy for emoticons on Twitch, as they felt this policy was being enforced unevenly. One discovered the NightLight emoticon, a globally available emoticon, had been promoted to global status as a personal favor. It was clearly a licensed image however, as it had been commissioned explicitly as an emoticon for the Twitch site. The NightLight emoticon should not have been approved as a global emoticon and has been removed by request of the channel owner.
In reaction to this discovery about the NightLight emoticon and the previous emoticon removals, many users began to make jokes and other much less funny derogatory and/or offensive remarks in chat. Additionally, many of these users began harassing our staff and admins outside of Twitch chat using other social media channels.
Horror then banned many users from the Twitch site for this behavior. Harassment and/or defamation of any user on the site, including a staff member, is clearly against the Twitch terms of service. Some of the banned user’s remarks clearly cross this line, and those users were correctly banned. Other users made more innocuous remarks and should not have been banned. Horror was too close to this situation and should have recused himself in favor of less conflicted moderators. Being personally involved led to very poor decisions being made.
This whole situation began blowing up outside Twitch, including but not limited to Twitter and Reddit. One of our volunteer admins took it upon themselves to attempt to censor threads on Reddit. This was obviously a mistake, was not approved by Twitch, and the volunteer admin has since been removed. We at Twitch do not believe in censoring discussion, and more to the point know that it’s doomed to failure.
We take this incident very seriously and apologize for not better managing our staff, admins and policies regarding community moderation. There were several key mistakes made by Twitch in this process:
We failed to provide a valued partner with proper support when we needed to remove their unlicensed emoticons
We allowed a questionable emoticon to be made available in global chat
We failed to properly train our staff members to recuse themselves from personally involved situations, and as a result poor moderation decisions were made.
We did not have the structure or training in place in our moderation policies and training to deal with this episode properly.
What we're doing now and in the future:
Twitch users who were unfairly banned due to this incident are being systematically unbanned today.
The Twitch partners who were banned due to this incident have been provisionally unbanned pending investigation.
The NightLight emoticon has been removed.
Disciplinary action is being taken with regard to Twitch staff and members of the volunteer admin team who overstepped their authority.
Due to this incident, we are embarking on a full review of Twitch admin policies and community moderation procedures.
Horror has voluntarily stepped back from public facing moderation work at Twitch, as right now pretty much every moderation issue will be tainted by this episode.
In Our Defense:
Note that harassment and defamation (as opposed to criticism) of Twitch employees, partners, users, broadcasters, and humans in general is strictly prohibited by our terms of service and remain grounds for removal. This kind of behavior will not be tolerated. Users who committed acts of harassment or defamation will remain banned. Feel free to complain, protest, petition, etc. if you feel Twitch is making a mistake. Don’t harass or defame people.
Twitch staff did not ask any reddit moderators to remove or censor any threads.
“Twitch Administrators” are volunteer moderators who are not employed by Twitch. The activities depicted here and being falsely attributed to Twitch staff were undertaken by a volunteer admin who has since been removed from the program.
If you have further questions or comments, feel free to contact us directly via email at support@twitch.tv. Due to high expected volume, please be patient with us for responses in general on this topic.
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On November 22 2013 07:06 NovaMB wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1r64e8/apology_official_twitch_response_to_controversy/Show nested quote +We at Twitch apologize for our role in what has been an unfortunate and ugly chapter for the streaming community. We'd like to repair the damage that has been done to the relationship between Twitch and the Speedrunning community, in particular.
For context, here is a summary of the events as Twitch understands they occurred:
Twitch discovered that copyrighted images had been uploaded as emoticons to cyghfer’s chatroom on Twitch. Twitch policy clearly forbids unlicensed images from being used as subscription emoticons.
One of our staff members, Horror, notified cyghfer of this violation and removed the emoticons. Additionally, of the three emoticons which were removed, only two were actually unlicensed. One of them was actually licensed under Creative Commons and should not have been removed. We have notified cyghfer of our mistake in this matter.
Several Twitch users begin looking into our general policy for emoticons on Twitch, as they felt this policy was being enforced unevenly. One discovered the NightLight emoticon, a globally available emoticon, had been promoted to global status as a personal favor. It was clearly a licensed image however, as it had been commissioned explicitly as an emoticon for the Twitch site. The NightLight emoticon should not have been approved as a global emoticon and has been removed by request of the channel owner.
In reaction to this discovery about the NightLight emoticon and the previous emoticon removals, many users began to make jokes and other much less funny derogatory and/or offensive remarks in chat. Additionally, many of these users began harassing our staff and admins outside of Twitch chat using other social media channels.
Horror then banned many users from the Twitch site for this behavior. Harassment and/or defamation of any user on the site, including a staff member, is clearly against the Twitch terms of service. Some of the banned user’s remarks clearly cross this line, and those users were correctly banned. Other users made more innocuous remarks and should not have been banned. Horror was too close to this situation and should have recused himself in favor of less conflicted moderators. Being personally involved led to very poor decisions being made.
This whole situation began blowing up outside Twitch, including but not limited to Twitter and Reddit. One of our volunteer admins took it upon themselves to attempt to censor threads on Reddit. This was obviously a mistake, was not approved by Twitch, and the volunteer admin has since been removed. We at Twitch do not believe in censoring discussion, and more to the point know that it’s doomed to failure.
We take this incident very seriously and apologize for not better managing our staff, admins and policies regarding community moderation. There were several key mistakes made by Twitch in this process:
We failed to provide a valued partner with proper support when we needed to remove their unlicensed emoticons
We allowed a questionable emoticon to be made available in global chat
We failed to properly train our staff members to recuse themselves from personally involved situations, and as a result poor moderation decisions were made.
We did not have the structure or training in place in our moderation policies and training to deal with this episode properly.
What we're doing now and in the future:
Twitch users who were unfairly banned due to this incident are being systematically unbanned today.
The Twitch partners who were banned due to this incident have been provisionally unbanned pending investigation.
The NightLight emoticon has been removed.
Disciplinary action is being taken with regard to Twitch staff and members of the volunteer admin team who overstepped their authority.
Due to this incident, we are embarking on a full review of Twitch admin policies and community moderation procedures.
Horror has voluntarily stepped back from public facing moderation work at Twitch, as right now pretty much every moderation issue will be tainted by this episode.
In Our Defense:
Note that harassment and defamation (as opposed to criticism) of Twitch employees, partners, users, broadcasters, and humans in general is strictly prohibited by our terms of service and remain grounds for removal. This kind of behavior will not be tolerated. Users who committed acts of harassment or defamation will remain banned. Feel free to complain, protest, petition, etc. if you feel Twitch is making a mistake. Don’t harass or defame people.
Twitch staff did not ask any reddit moderators to remove or censor any threads.
“Twitch Administrators” are volunteer moderators who are not employed by Twitch. The activities depicted here and being falsely attributed to Twitch staff were undertaken by a volunteer admin who has since been removed from the program.
If you have further questions or comments, feel free to contact us directly via email at support@twitch.tv. Due to high expected volume, please be patient with us for responses in general on this topic.
Perfect. Now let's hope this all dies down as quickly as it came up.
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Some idiot is already streaming "WE DID IT" together with the 4chan speedrunning thing, with no gameplay -.-
ffs, this community turned to shit so fast
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Hopefully Cosmo will be able to stream tonight and will be able to speak on the issue a little bit.
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On November 22 2013 07:27 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Hopefully Cosmo will be able to stream tonight and will be able to speak on the issue a little bit.
Personally wish he would leave it alone. Mofat tried (albeit terribly I might add) to shed some form of light on it, and that caused shit to spiral even more. Its done now, Cosmo should just stick to playing the games fast, much like every one else should now.
On November 22 2013 07:18 NovaMB wrote:
Some idiot is already streaming "WE DID IT" together with the 4chan speedrunning thing, with no gameplay -.-
ffs, this community turned to shit so fast
Seems to me that it brought out the worst in people huh. Thats a shame
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51451 Posts
As Werster famously says;
"Shit, just let us play video games."
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On November 22 2013 09:01 GTR wrote:
As Werster famously says;
"Shit, just let us play video games."
Hes a smart man.
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On November 22 2013 08:49 Erraa93 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 07:27 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Hopefully Cosmo will be able to stream tonight and will be able to speak on the issue a little bit. Personally wish he would leave it alone. Mofat tried (albeit terribly I might add) to shed some form of light on it, and that caused shit to spiral even more. Its done now, Cosmo should just stick to playing the games fast, much like every one else should now. Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 07:18 NovaMB wrote:
Some idiot is already streaming "WE DID IT" together with the 4chan speedrunning thing, with no gameplay -.-
ffs, this community turned to shit so fast Seems to me that it brought out the worst in people huh. Thats a shame
Sure. I watched the mofat stream. The reason I want Cosmo (and no one else) to touch on it is because he's the closest thing the speedrunning community has to a leader. Mofat trying to take that leadership role backfired, but if Cosmo asks people to calm down and let things be I think people generally will fall in line.
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It was unlikely Mofat would manage to do anything with Duke twitting "Mofat is a fucking parasite", and I'm not sure Cosmo attempting to take over the mandle of "Leader" would be taken well by some people. Afaik he hasn't said anything about it and I really see no reason why he should. There isn't anything he could say that hasn't been already said and he wasn't involved in it.
The admins from SDA and the people that organize the marathons are probally closer to a leadership position than Cosmo, even though that kind of position really doesn't make sense. Cosmo just has a lot of fans and runs SRL with some other people.
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On November 22 2013 09:50 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 08:49 Erraa93 wrote:On November 22 2013 07:27 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Hopefully Cosmo will be able to stream tonight and will be able to speak on the issue a little bit. Personally wish he would leave it alone. Mofat tried (albeit terribly I might add) to shed some form of light on it, and that caused shit to spiral even more. Its done now, Cosmo should just stick to playing the games fast, much like every one else should now. On November 22 2013 07:18 NovaMB wrote:
Some idiot is already streaming "WE DID IT" together with the 4chan speedrunning thing, with no gameplay -.-
ffs, this community turned to shit so fast Seems to me that it brought out the worst in people huh. Thats a shame Sure. I watched the mofat stream. The reason I want Cosmo (and no one else) to touch on it is because he's the closest thing the speedrunning community has to a leader. Mofat trying to take that leadership role backfired, but if Cosmo asks people to calm down and let things be I think people generally will fall in line.
The thing with that is, theres no specific leadership role that needs to be undertaken. Its not as if anyone should take the reins and say I run this what I say goes. I think the drama needs to die here.
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I think the drama needs to die here.
But I love drama! D:
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On November 22 2013 10:05 SKC wrote:
It was unlikely Mofat would manage to do anything with Duke twitting "Mofat is a fucking parasite", and I'm not sure Cosmo attempting to take over the mandle of "Leader" would be taken well by some people. Afaik he hasn't said anything about it and I really see no reason why he should. There isn't anything he could say that hasn't been already said and he wasn't involved in it.
The admins from SDA and the people that organize the marathons are probally closer to a leadership position than Cosmo, even though that kind of position really doesn't make sense. Cosmo just has a lot of fans and runs SRL with some other people.
Yup, too many babies in the community dislike Cosmo just cause he is popular. Atleast as far as I have seen. =)
Actually quite surprised this whole thing got as big as it did, I wasn't expecting this much noise was able to be made on the back of the speedrunning community.
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ASDQ 2014 is from 5.january to 11. january? this date is official and i can start to plan my working holidays for this week? :D
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On November 23 2013 04:07 greenelve wrote:
ASDQ 2014 is from 5.january to 11. january? this date is official and i can start to plan my working holidays for this week? :D
I'm pretty sure that date is official.
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Man....the speed running community wants Horror's head on a stick :O , nothing less than him getting fired.....just look at the responses in the apology thread , that shit makes the drama that went on last year here on TL look like nothing.
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EPT
