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[TL]Hanabi - US West 4
[TL]Ohana - US East 4
[TL] Destination East 4 |
On March 08 2013 18:33 mkfk1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 13:41 Fzero wrote:
All I can say is that our team at Maxis put in a ton of work on this game. I can't go into details, but I still hope that people give it a shot. I have a personal investment that maybe you shouldn't trust, but if you came to this thread looking for SimCity - this game will deliver a very respectable game. I can't tell you how frustrated everyone is with what is going on right now. It is a respectable game. But it is not really a sim city game. Its more of a town simulator with server problems due to DRM. A very good town simulator, but still only a town simulator nevertheless.
It makes you wonder if they had to make the "city" sizes so small to compensate for it all being handled on their servers. From what I understand, most of the fans rather like the game, assuming it works, apart from the super tiny city limit.
Edit: Not to toot my own horn, but I saw this game being a disaster a mile away. I almost caved in and preordered it but decided to wait and see just how bad EA could fuck it up. Glad I did xD.
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So should I just buy SimCity 4 then?
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Haha thats what I did. Damn you EA, you won after all...
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Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA."
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On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA."
It's still being done the wrong way. Valve not only does similar but less intrusive stuff, but they're also extremely careful with their public image. This is why they won't sell you DLC that will complete the game, but sell you DLC that is completely optional and not forced. If I buy a gorgeous bow for my WR in dota, it feels like I'm supporting the team, instead of getting robbed. If I but the "From ashes" day one DLC for ME3, which includes a character without which the game does NOT feel complete, then I don't feel I'm supporting anyone, I feel I'm getting scammed. I also feel robbed when a microtransaction system is a key feature of a $60 AAA game, but when it is a key feature of a F2P game like LoL, DotA, or PoE, I don't feel robbed, I feel like I'm giving something back to the people who put an effort to make a game. Moreover, when I buy the Artorias of the Abyss DLC for Dark Souls, I don't feel the DLC is needed for the game to be complete, the game was awesome without it and a full experience, so I get the feeling my money is getting well spent, with a good money/time ratio, more like the classic expansion pack concept, unlike, say, the extended cut DLC for ME3, which attempted to fix something the series deserved to have from the beginning (and even then it was poor), so I feel like I'm getting milked for my cash.
There's different ways to do DRM and DLCs, and EA's business practices are usually on the wrong side of the spectrum. Gabe understands all of these things, but Valve's ways of doing their thing don't alienate the fan base in the process, it's much better their way, I as a customer feel more valued.
So yeah "Good guy valve" vs "Scumbag EA" is a pretty good description of the customer perception on both companies. Most people would be more prone to use Steam rather than Origin. Hell, lots of people I know would have bought SimCity a long time ago had it been available on Steam, good lord Steam dodged a bullet haha.
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On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA."
Im not sure how you can defend such piss poor design philosophy because of "hardware" specs. They could of just as easily given you the options present in Total War games where people with lower graphics can turn down the amount of people on the screen. Do you really think that they couldn't of designed it better to where if you were zoomed out most of the people go into a CPU/Ram cycle and only appear when you zoom in on the town? But no, they went with SimTown instead of SimCity and "hope to address the issue of city sizes in the coming months".
BTW-you're not releasing any ground breaking news, steam has been doing this for years with ads popping up when you close games(even more annoying because if I'm shutting my game down 99% of the time I'm done for the day so the extra clicks get annoying especially with all the garbage games they try to sell me that I'm not interested in.) Just because that is the way the "industry" is going, doesn't mean we can't get vocal about how stupid and punishing it is to legit users because 1 company makes a really shitty game because of the DRM requirement and then gives you no other options to play. BTW, did you know that these kinds of DRM didn't stop anyone from pirating D3 that wanted it? It doesn't stop pirates, it just present hassles for legit customers. Just like Starcraft 2 not having lan except in the pirated edition. Pirates got a feature that was a legitimate need for real customers.
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On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA."
Isnt that a failure from the design part. So you are saying that the team would rather have an engine that seriously limit city size rather then tuning it down with the simulation? That's like using a "super doper" engine for star craft 2 but limit the unit population at 30/30 instead of 200/200.
The engine is nice, dont get me wrong. But not if the playing experiences is hammered to a town simulator.
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On March 09 2013 00:30 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." Im not sure how you can defend such piss poor design philosophy because of "hardware" specs. They could of just as easily given you the options present in Total War games where people with lower graphics can turn down the amount of people on the screen. Do you really think that they couldn't of designed it better to where if you were zoomed out most of the people go into a CPU/Ram cycle and only appear when you zoom in on the town? But no, they went with SimTown instead of SimCity and "hope to address the issue of city sizes in the coming months". BTW-you're not releasing any ground breaking news, steam has been doing this for years with ads popping up when you close games(even more annoying because if I'm shutting my game down 99% of the time I'm done for the day so the extra clicks get annoying especially with all the garbage games they try to sell me that I'm not interested in.) Just because that is the way the "industry" is going, doesn't mean we can't get vocal about how stupid and punishing it is to legit users because 1 company makes a really shitty game because of the DRM requirement and then gives you no other options to play. BTW, did you know that these kinds of DRM didn't stop anyone from pirating D3 that wanted it? It doesn't stop pirates, it just present hassles for legit customers. Just like Starcraft 2 not having lan except in the pirated edition. Pirates got a feature that was a legitimate need for real customers.
Hmmm I'm not sure where you get your data, but D3 is one of the least pirated games out of the recent releases, despite how terrible the launch was, as far as piracy comes, it seems to have worked fairly well.
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On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA."
This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return.
Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for....
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On March 09 2013 00:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return. Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for....
How the fuck can the balance team make your life a living hell? Is just a game...they dont know who you are...
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On March 09 2013 00:39 mkfk1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return. Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for.... How the fuck can the balance team make your life a living hell? Is just a game...they dont know who you are...
They do know who I am. They played off the fact that they knew I wanted to be a progamer in SC2, but I have a big mouth on forums and they think I gave them "bad feedback" to intentionally ruin the game, or something along those lines. Lets just say, in SC2 if you know exactly what your opponent is doing, you can hard counter it, and it's not particularly hard to know what your opponent is doing if you can see what they're doing like you're streaming to them.
In any case there are 2 guys that are following me even into other games, such as dota 2 or LoL, and harassing/throwing games there.
If you want to see my skill level in SC2, here is a stream I played on a friend's account (I used his free name to change) while trying to avoid mr kim and co.
http://www.twitch.tv/anomalysc2/b/333521308
Also, in before the "you're paranoid" patrol comes in to kill these posts.
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On March 09 2013 00:41 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:39 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return. Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for.... How the fuck can the balance team make your life a living hell? Is just a game...they dont know who you are... They do know who I am.
How? They trace your IP and hack your ISP?
What did they do to make your life a living hell? Extortion? Verbal abuse? You could sue them at domestic terrorist charge if they do anything illegal.
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On March 09 2013 00:44 mkfk1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:41 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:39 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return. Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for.... How the fuck can the balance team make your life a living hell? Is just a game...they dont know who you are... They do know who I am. How? They trace your IP and hack your ISP? What did they do to make your life a living hell? Extortion? Verbal abuse? You could sue them at domestic terrorist charge if they do anything illegal.
They ended up causing a huge depression, as I was without a job because they toyed with my belief that they would let me go pro in sc2. And no, IP is not how they're tracking me, I know how to change it at will. I haven't quite figured out how they're doing it, tbh. I've even used a mac cloner to change my router and nic macs, that hasn't changed anything at all.
I've since moved on, but they won't let the beef go. I just want to try my hand at progaming in a different game, but that doesn't seem to suit these jerks.
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On March 09 2013 00:47 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:44 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:41 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:39 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return. Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for.... How the fuck can the balance team make your life a living hell? Is just a game...they dont know who you are... They do know who I am. How? They trace your IP and hack your ISP? What did they do to make your life a living hell? Extortion? Verbal abuse? You could sue them at domestic terrorist charge if they do anything illegal. They ended up causing a huge depression, as I was without a job because they toyed with my belief that they would let me go pro in sc2. And no, IP is not how they're tracking me, I know how to change it at will. I haven't quite figured out how they're doing it, tbh. I've even used a mac cloner to change my router and nic macs, that hasn't changed anything at all. I've since moved on, but they won't let the beef go. I just want to try my hand at progaming in a different game, but that doesn't seem to suit these jerks.
It still sounds a bit paranoid to me but I don't think it's part of the thread's discussion.
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On March 09 2013 00:47 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:44 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:41 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:39 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return. Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for.... How the fuck can the balance team make your life a living hell? Is just a game...they dont know who you are... They do know who I am. How? They trace your IP and hack your ISP? What did they do to make your life a living hell? Extortion? Verbal abuse? You could sue them at domestic terrorist charge if they do anything illegal. They ended up causing a huge depression, as I was without a job because they toyed with my belief that they would let me go pro in sc2. And no, IP is not how they're tracking me, I know how to change it at will. I haven't quite figured out how they're doing it, tbh. I've even used a mac cloner to change my router and nic macs, that hasn't changed anything at all. I've since moved on, but they won't let the beef go. I just want to try my hand at progaming in a different game, but that doesn't seem to suit these jerks.
so they pay 2+people full time to harrass you and keep you from becoming a progamer? i dont want to insult you. but therapy might be the best thing in this situation
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On March 09 2013 00:50 Snotling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:47 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:44 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:41 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:39 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return. Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for.... How the fuck can the balance team make your life a living hell? Is just a game...they dont know who you are... They do know who I am. How? They trace your IP and hack your ISP? What did they do to make your life a living hell? Extortion? Verbal abuse? You could sue them at domestic terrorist charge if they do anything illegal. They ended up causing a huge depression, as I was without a job because they toyed with my belief that they would let me go pro in sc2. And no, IP is not how they're tracking me, I know how to change it at will. I haven't quite figured out how they're doing it, tbh. I've even used a mac cloner to change my router and nic macs, that hasn't changed anything at all. I've since moved on, but they won't let the beef go. I just want to try my hand at progaming in a different game, but that doesn't seem to suit these jerks. so they pay 2+people full time to harras you? i dont want to insult you. but therapy might be the best thing in this situation
I don't think they pay them anything, I think they do it out of enjoyment. And no I assure you I'm quite fine and over the whole thing at this point. I've moved on with my life but I WOULD at least like to warn people about how online gaming can be corrupted and abused.
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On March 09 2013 00:47 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:44 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:41 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:39 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return. Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for.... How the fuck can the balance team make your life a living hell? Is just a game...they dont know who you are... They do know who I am. How? They trace your IP and hack your ISP? What did they do to make your life a living hell? Extortion? Verbal abuse? You could sue them at domestic terrorist charge if they do anything illegal. They ended up causing a huge depression, as I was without a job because they toyed with my belief that they would let me go pro in sc2. And no, IP is not how they're tracking me, I know how to change it at will. I haven't quite figured out how they're doing it, tbh. I've even used a mac cloner to change my router and nic macs, that hasn't changed anything at all. I've since moved on, but they won't let the beef go. I just want to try my hand at progaming in a different game, but that doesn't seem to suit these jerks.
..../putontinfoil hat.
LAWL WHAT?!?!?! How the hell can you really believe what you just wrote? Are they balancing the game specifically around making you worse?
weirdest shit ive ever read on TL i think. (not the dumbest, but the weirdest)
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On March 09 2013 00:29 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." It's still being done the wrong way. Valve not only does similar but less intrusive stuff, but they're also extremely careful with their public image. This is why they won't sell you DLC that will complete the game, but sell you DLC that is completely optional and not forced. If I buy a gorgeous bow for my WR in dota, it feels like I'm supporting the team, instead of getting robbed. If I but the "From ashes" day one DLC for ME3, which includes a character without which the game does NOT feel complete, then I don't feel I'm supporting anyone, I feel I'm getting scammed. I also feel robbed when a microtransaction system is a key feature of a $60 AAA game, but when it is a key feature of a F2P game like LoL, DotA, or PoE, I don't feel robbed, I feel like I'm giving something back to the people who put an effort to make a game. Moreover, when I buy the Artorias of the Abyss DLC for Dark Souls, I don't feel the DLC is needed for the game to be complete, the game was awesome without it and a full experience, so I get the feeling my money is getting well spent, with a good money/time ratio, more like the classic expansion pack concept, unlike, say, the extended cut DLC for ME3, which attempted to fix something the series deserved to have from the beginning (and even then it was poor), so I feel like I'm getting milked for my cash. There's different ways to do DRM and DLCs, and EA's business practices are usually on the wrong side of the spectrum. Gabe understands all of these things, but Valve's ways of doing their thing don't alienate the fan base in the process, it's much better their way, I as a customer feel more valued.
The difference between Valve and EA is that Valve can afford to make a loss on its most popular games like TF2, DOTA2 etc as they tack you to steam and once you're in they just keep earning money off you without really having to do anything.
Don't underestimate Valve, they are a huge business, they just happened to corner the market very early and got themselves in the best position, they could definitely still go the way of microsoft in the future. Gabe won't live forever either, in 20 years Valve could well be worse than EA for all we know, they certainly have a scary amount of our gaming lives all wrapped up in their little Steam package.
EA doesn't have that privilege, in many ways its stuck in the model of old where games have to stand on their own merits, especially bigger ones. The interesting thing with Sim City and EAs future is they are moving towards service style games, which certainly is interesting. Sure it could be abused, but I think that if they want to play serious long term they will have to learn not to be anti-consumer, rather being pro-consumer actually opens peoples wallets a lot more, it may take them a while to learn that though.
They just aren't really in a position to do that right now, but are hopefully posturing themselves to be that way. I think they recognize their problems but I also think you grossly over simplify the situation.
The online-only 'DRM' is also more complex than people give it credit for, it certainly has some huge anti-consumer elements, and the DRM aspect is certainly the elephant in the room, but there's more to it than that and people know it. They just like to give EA shit because its a big company, of course they do this whilst handing their money over to them which is dumb as hell.
The classic parallel is D3. Its online only component isn't what made it suck. It was the piss poor social features, terrible dominance of the auction house and total lack of Inferno testing, Inferno itself, and the obsessive nature of 'trimming down' the experience too excessively to the point where they actually removed depth.
Sim City doesn't have to be that way, in fact if EA intends to support it with reasonably priced content and persistent updates we may well end up seeing the end of the Sim City 'series' and simply have a really solid persistent platform, and that is actually quite good for consumers as it relies on long term playability and listening to consumers or it simply wont survive. You complain about feeling robbed by the idea of a AAA $60 game + micro-transactions but why? The games you mention are tiny in comparison to a full AAA release, especially something with the potential of Sim City. It think it's absolutely phenomenal value, games are dirt cheap for what you get (I say this as a software engineer) and if they release content I want I'll shell out my cash for it, if you don't, don't buy it and if they feel like they need your demographic they will address the issues to entice you into purchasing again.
Of course everything I've said is pure speculation, the game has been out for less than 24 hours in my country, I'm enjoying it, server problems will get addressed and the impression from the devs is they intend to improve the game, including expanding city sizes.
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On March 09 2013 00:33 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:30 FromShouri wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." Im not sure how you can defend such piss poor design philosophy because of "hardware" specs. They could of just as easily given you the options present in Total War games where people with lower graphics can turn down the amount of people on the screen. Do you really think that they couldn't of designed it better to where if you were zoomed out most of the people go into a CPU/Ram cycle and only appear when you zoom in on the town? But no, they went with SimTown instead of SimCity and "hope to address the issue of city sizes in the coming months". BTW-you're not releasing any ground breaking news, steam has been doing this for years with ads popping up when you close games(even more annoying because if I'm shutting my game down 99% of the time I'm done for the day so the extra clicks get annoying especially with all the garbage games they try to sell me that I'm not interested in.) Just because that is the way the "industry" is going, doesn't mean we can't get vocal about how stupid and punishing it is to legit users because 1 company makes a really shitty game because of the DRM requirement and then gives you no other options to play. BTW, did you know that these kinds of DRM didn't stop anyone from pirating D3 that wanted it? It doesn't stop pirates, it just present hassles for legit customers. Just like Starcraft 2 not having lan except in the pirated edition. Pirates got a feature that was a legitimate need for real customers. Hmmm I'm not sure where you get your data, but D3 is one of the least pirated games out of the recent releases, despite how terrible the launch was, as far as piracy comes, it seems to have worked fairly well.
Cutting down pirating is not the same as eliminating it. It may of been one of the "less" pirated games, but that also has something more to do with its current state of being complete shit rather then the availability of pirated copies. I have a feeling its more or less the same with this game, people see it, read about it a little, find out it's complete shit, and don't download it. So in that regard, ya the DRM works perfectly.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 09 2013 00:51 adwodon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:29 mordk wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." It's still being done the wrong way. Valve not only does similar but less intrusive stuff, but they're also extremely careful with their public image. This is why they won't sell you DLC that will complete the game, but sell you DLC that is completely optional and not forced. If I buy a gorgeous bow for my WR in dota, it feels like I'm supporting the team, instead of getting robbed. If I but the "From ashes" day one DLC for ME3, which includes a character without which the game does NOT feel complete, then I don't feel I'm supporting anyone, I feel I'm getting scammed. I also feel robbed when a microtransaction system is a key feature of a $60 AAA game, but when it is a key feature of a F2P game like LoL, DotA, or PoE, I don't feel robbed, I feel like I'm giving something back to the people who put an effort to make a game. Moreover, when I buy the Artorias of the Abyss DLC for Dark Souls, I don't feel the DLC is needed for the game to be complete, the game was awesome without it and a full experience, so I get the feeling my money is getting well spent, with a good money/time ratio, more like the classic expansion pack concept, unlike, say, the extended cut DLC for ME3, which attempted to fix something the series deserved to have from the beginning (and even then it was poor), so I feel like I'm getting milked for my cash. There's different ways to do DRM and DLCs, and EA's business practices are usually on the wrong side of the spectrum. Gabe understands all of these things, but Valve's ways of doing their thing don't alienate the fan base in the process, it's much better their way, I as a customer feel more valued. The difference between Valve and EA is that Valve can afford to make a loss on its most popular games like TF2, DOTA2 etc as they tack you to steam and once you're in they just keep earning money off you without really having to do anything. Don't underestimate Valve, they are a huge business, they just happened to corner the market very early and got themselves in the best position, they could definitely still go the way of microsoft in the future. Gabe won't live forever either, in 20 years Valve could well be worse than EA for all we know, they certainly have a scary amount of our gaming lives all wrapped up in their little Steam package. EA doesn't have that privilege, in many ways its stuck in the model of old where games have to stand on their own merits, especially bigger ones. The interesting thing with Sim City and EAs future is they are moving towards service style games, which certainly is interesting. Sure it could be abused, but I think that if they want to play serious long term they will have to learn not to be anti-consumer, rather being pro-consumer actually opens peoples wallets a lot more, it may take them a while to learn that though. They just aren't really in a position to do that right now, but are hopefully posturing themselves to be that way. I think they recognize their problems but I also think you grossly over simplify the situation. The online-only 'DRM' is also more complex than people give it credit for, it certainly has some huge anti-consumer elements, and the DRM aspect is certainly the elephant in the room, but there's more to it than that and people know it. They just like to give EA shit because its a big company, of course they do this whilst handing their money over to them which is dumb as hell. The classic parallel is D3. Its online only component isn't what made it suck. It was the piss poor social features, terrible dominance of the auction house and total lack of Inferno testing, Inferno itself, and the obsessive nature of 'trimming down' the experience too excessively to the point where they actually removed depth. Sim City doesn't have to be that way, in fact if EA intends to support it with reasonably priced content and persistent updates we may well end up seeing the end of the Sim City 'series' and simply have a really solid persistent platform, and that is actually quite good for consumers as it relies on long term playability and listening to consumers or it simply wont survive. You complain about feeling robbed by the idea of a AAA $60 game + micro-transactions but why? The games you mention are tiny in comparison to a full AAA release, especially something with the potential of Sim City. It think it's absolutely phenomenal value, games are dirt cheap for what you get (I say this as a software engineer) and if they release content I want I'll shell out my cash for it, if you don't, don't buy it and if they feel like they need your demographic they will address the issues to entice you into purchasing again. Of course everything I've said is pure speculation, the game has been out for less than 24 hours in my country, I'm enjoying it, server problems will get addressed and the impression from the devs is they intend to improve the game, including expanding city sizes.
But that is part of the big picture problem, companies releasing games that you pay for that are nothing more then a Beta test. Look at Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, they were released and now they are so different and have been revamped so many times since then it isn't even the same game. Yet most everyone agrees that if they would of just stayed in development a little longer instead of rush releasing and then fixing the game, it would be remembered as a success as opposed to Error 37 or the fact that there wasn't chat rooms in b.net at launch.
Why should we pay $60+ for a AAA game that isn't finished and then have to turn around and pay additional money on top of that for features that should of been in the game at release.(Like the ability to tone down the amount of visible people so that the city sizes can be increased on older hardware, I mean this is fucking design 101 and the fact a company as old and big as EA doesn't get that frightens me a little.)
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On March 09 2013 00:51 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:47 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:44 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:41 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:39 mkfk1 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:34 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:19 Fzero wrote:
Again, I have no comment on whether or not the design decision was correct to go with always online. However, the decision was made and there is no other way to make this game function without it. Everything you do in the current Simcity talks asynchronously to the cloud server system because it needs to have the data from your city (and every other city in your region [and all regions]) to be able to update everyone else with what is happening in your box.
The idea is that the glasshouse engine simulates down to the individual sim level and perpetrates that simulation across the entire region for all players. This doesn't work if you take it offline and this is the experience the team wants you to have.
A big comment about city size. I don't know how many of you have actually pushed the limitations of your box, but run something like fraps or another FPS counter when the engine starts pushing 400k or so. The game would simply not function at 4k x 4k sizes given current computing power on 90% of the players. When Ocean talks about future possibilities, they're not planning on simply ignoring the need for variety in city sizes, region templates, etc... they made decisions to function within the current PC environment. Crysis 3 can push your GPU, but SimCity will punish the CPU.
So yes, all these things came from the initial decision on what type of game they wanted to make and all of this information is publicly available already. The comments about DRM and fuck EA and Origin are all really outside of the scope of the game of SimCity. I realize they affect you as a consumer of a product, but I've got news for you.. the industry is moving towards analytic representation of all kinds of player statistics to help them drive revenue in future games. Every part of the industry is telling them that profits exist if you can monitor consumer trends and deliver goods to please that want. No where is that easier than via a computer. You should listen to Gabe Newell talk about economics of the industry sometime if you think it is just "EA being EA." This is a HUGE problem. An example, Blizzard has been doing this ever since WoW. They absolutely monitor top level players in, say SC2, and the balance team even plays with and against them on the ladder. They can even watch everything you do on your screen as you play SC2, basically like you're streaming directly to them. I don't even need to bring up how this could potentially be abused to invade your privacy, and lets just say I've experienced this first hand to the extreme. I made some enemies with the sc2 balance team and they have made my life a living hell in return. Point being, this always online thing needs to die for a multitude of reasons. Most importantly it is ruining a lot of games that simply have no business of using such a model. But then there is also the whole abusive invasion of privacy that it can be used for.... How the fuck can the balance team make your life a living hell? Is just a game...they dont know who you are... They do know who I am. How? They trace your IP and hack your ISP? What did they do to make your life a living hell? Extortion? Verbal abuse? You could sue them at domestic terrorist charge if they do anything illegal. They ended up causing a huge depression, as I was without a job because they toyed with my belief that they would let me go pro in sc2. And no, IP is not how they're tracking me, I know how to change it at will. I haven't quite figured out how they're doing it, tbh. I've even used a mac cloner to change my router and nic macs, that hasn't changed anything at all. I've since moved on, but they won't let the beef go. I just want to try my hand at progaming in a different game, but that doesn't seem to suit these jerks. ..../putontinfoil hat. LAWL WHAT?!?!?! How the hell can you really believe what you just wrote? Are they balancing the game specifically around making you worse? weirdest shit ive ever read on TL i think. (not the dumbest, but the weirdest)
No, they just snipe me over and over on the ladder. They stopped letting me vs GMs after I used to be critical of david kim's ability to balance the game, and they only let me vs them instead. I know it's them because of their personality, hotkeys, and ability to hard counter any build order I try. This took place over the course of a year, you come to know the mind games between each other quite well.
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EPT
