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On April 25 2012 00:22 ecstatica wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 07:12 SwizzY wrote:Lin NBA Most Improved Player?Trying to mix up the discourse in this thread for the past 5+ pages... I find myself super mixed on the prospect of Lin winning the award while only playing less than 30 "real" games (with major minutes). Whereas Bynum took it to another level from the beginning of the season, or Ilyasova, or Roy Hibbert, or Rondo, or all of the other guys mentioned in the article who not only improved personally but improved their teams as well. But then again, I'm all for Linsanity, so.... really torn. :/ Wow... Who writes these articles? How do you become a sports writer when your knowledge is absolute garbage? Half of the people in this thread would come up with a better list (not claiming they are bright or anything). Do they even know what this award is based on? Bynum? Rondo? Srs? Anyway, my candidate would be Avery Bradley. Guy went from barely a backup pg to one of the best defensive guards in the league putting up insane numbers and pushing Ray Allen out of the starting 5. Thats what I call improved. Where the fuck is his name being mentioned? Someone feeds off watching highlights on espn.
He wasn't "barely a backup PG", and ever since he declared for the draft he was regarded as one of the better defensive guards, the only reason he went so late was due to a broken hand at the time.. Pretty sure Ray Allen won't come off the bench during the playoffs either, the main reason he's been there is due to injury (however, I'm not saying Bradley hasn't been a wonderful addition to the Celtics squad and hasn't had a really good season).
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And tbh, there has been plenty of Bradley in most of the Celtic highlight reels in recent few weeks if were going to make those sort of criticisms..
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I dont know where you get information but go look at his numbers from early season and last year, I dont really need anything else to prove a point... He couldnt score, he didnt get minutes, he wasnt even playing his position ffs. I dont see how this isnt one of the biggest leaps any player made this season. Theres a surprisingly good article on what Bradley brought to celtics on espn:
espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/40245/killer-lineup-the-celtics-new-look
He already started several important games over Ray. Thats done.
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On April 25 2012 03:27 Rebs wrote:
And tbh, there has been plenty of Bradley in most of the Celtic highlight reels in recent few weeks if were going to make those sort of criticisms..
My bad then but that makes it even worse - why isnt he in conversation?
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because ryan anderson was playing like a god. and lin went from d-leaguer to household name.
I don't disagree that bradley improved immensely, but you cannot downplay the huge leaps anderson and lin both made. bradley went from bench to rotation, anderson and lin placed themselves just shy of the echelon of greatness.
there's been plenty of players to take a step forward, pekovic, bradley, lowry, demarcus, evan turner, bass, hayward, james johnson, ilyasova and probably more, but no one made the leap anderson did, and no one had the impact lin did, so its a toss up betwen them.
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Don't forget Greg Monroe who has been solid this season, he just plays for a sucky team.
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I knew there was more. munroe was actually pretty boss at the end of last season, but yes he is playing a much better nba game.
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Avery Bradley: Hook'em.
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What about Dragic?
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On April 25 2012 04:52 krndandaman wrote:
i remember tnt sports analysts talk about the idea of having amare come off the bench so that melo gets better access for drives and to neutralize a better bench like the bulls or dominate weaker benches like the heat. what do you guys think?
i thought it was interesting but dunno if its even crossing the mind of mike woodson and the knicks.
Its a great idea, not because Amare and Melo can't work together, but because Amare is not good enough to be worthy of a starting position.
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20 million per year for a bench player...
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Holcan, but Bradley emerged just recently, at least look up his post allstar stats, not even talking last 10 games where hes been outright ridiculous. Imo his numbers beyond ryan andersons? Also ryan anderson of last season wasnt that much worse, compared to bradley who averaged like 2 ppg? Come on, where do you see more IMPROVEMENT?
And on Lin - hes a real candidate, but didnt he deteriorate greatly before he got injured once Melo came back? I agree he is top 2 choice here but something tells me his hot run was more miraculous than anything else. Where do you rank Lin now among pgs? How valuable is he really? Because many players can get hot, just like bradley last 10 games.
I think bradley has some intangibles that have great value in any system and cant really go sour. Hes an amazing defender and a workhorse. Hes quick and seems durable. He shoots effectively from anywhere on the floor. And we didnt know most of this even 30 games back.
Im sorry I just cant see how Lin elevated himself into "greatness". This is definitely an exaggeration on your part.
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Its a pretty useless award anyways. Not like players pride themselves with being most improved on their way to the HOF...
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I went on this rant because of the reporter mostly, not the award itself. Guy couldnt even come up with a string of legit candidates and sells his shit as if its 'analytical'
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On April 25 2012 06:18 ecstatica wrote:
Holcan, but Bradley emerged just recently, at least look up his post allstar stats, not even talking last 10 games where hes been outright ridiculous. Imo his numbers beyond ryan andersons? Also ryan anderson of last season wasnt that much worse, compared to bradley who averaged like 2 ppg? Come on, where do you see more IMPROVEMENT?
And on Lin - hes a real candidate, but didnt he deteriorate greatly before he got injured once Melo came back? I agree he is top 2 choice here but something tells me his hot run was more miraculous than anything else. Where do you rank Lin now among pgs? How valuable is he really? Because many players can get hot, just like bradley last 10 games.
I think bradley has some intangibles that have great value in any system and cant really go sour. Hes an amazing defender and a workhorse. Hes quick and seems durable. He shoots effectively from anywhere on the floor. And we didnt know most of this even 30 games back.
Im sorry I just cant see how Lin elevated himself into "greatness". This is definitely an exaggeration on your part.
First of all, Bradley was always a capable defender, so his improvement has mostly come at the offensive end, and building confidence. He has been playing above his estimated skill level of this time, but not so much that it surprises anyone. He played on a contending team, and as a rookie you hardly ever see minutes on contenders, so this minutes/points comparison is weak, just look at a players game and see how it improved.
Lin went from a 3rd-4th string PG, into a legitimate double double threat, with great execution in the PnR.
Anderson became the best pure shooter in the league next to Steve Nash.
Lin became the face of a third of the worlds population.
Anderson helped pushed his team into great playoff position before his superstar quit on him.
If this is not the echelon before greatness, I don't know what is. I never said they actually achieved it, only that they are putting themselves in a good position to do so if they continue playing at such a pace.
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United States4471 Posts
I'm pretty sure Lin will win MIP, and deservedly so. He went from a nobody that was getting dropped by multiple teams and getting no minutes on a team that desperately needed a PG, to a legitimate MVP candidate that took a laughing stock of a roster on an insane winning streak almost overnight. Not only that, but he did so as the leader of the team while Melo and Amare were out, and elevated the games of underperforming/very average players like Fields, Jeffries, and Novak, all while being the primary focus of opposing team's defenses at the time.
Sure, he eventually came down to earth after averaging the best numbers we've ever seen from a player in their first career starts, but he came down to still-impressive numbers. Consider that he went from playing 0 minutes to averaging 30+ in a compressed schedule, without any adjustment period or practice time, and incorporating a constantly changing lineup (additions of Melo, Amare, JR and Baron), and still averaged 14.6 ppg, 6.3 apg, 1.7 spg. Further, he did all of this while playing in one of the largest media markets in the world, getting constant world-wide media coverage and scrutiny, and being labeled and treated as the representative of the most populous race in the world.
In whatever measure of value you can attribute to an NBA player, Lin went from zero to about as high as an individual player can get to a team/organization (or the league itself) in a ridiculously short amount of time. It's hard to see how anyone can compare him to players like Ryan Anderson (who is basically doing what he was doing last year when he had the PT and opportunity, and playing with the best player in the NBA for a spot up shooter to play with, i.e. D12) or Bradley (who went from rookie nobody to important role player in a team laden with HOF/Allstar-level talent) for any award, let alone MIP.
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Just out; 7 game suspension for Ron Artest
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Seems fair. Between what I expected (rest of season + 2 games of playoffs) and what some people in this thread were calling for (all of playoffs/lifetime ban)
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EPT
