TL Chess Match 4 - Page 72

move looks interesting and the underdog. I like it

ahem
qrs, why do we HAVE to play Qc2, or trade queens? We don't
We are also enabling Nh4, and if we don't put him in check, he has way more options
I'm keeping my vote. If you didn't want to attack the doubled pawns, we shouldn't have traded away our damn bishop.

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Sorry, could you clarify? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
That's true, but which would we prefer: way more options or a single option that we know leads to a position that doesn't look good for us?
your prerogative
I think that's too rigid a way of thinking. We traded away our damn bishop to attack the doubled pawns, yes, but

1) We have something better in this situation. Just by way of illustration, if Ng5 had somehow opened up a mate in one, you wouldn't insist on taking the pawn just because that was our original plan, right? We have to play the board: Ng5's last move has on the one hand made it unattractive to kill c6 immediately (for the reason that I outlined in my last post) and on the other hand given us a different opportunity which looks better.

2) It's not like you can say, "If we wanted to play Qxa7 then we shouldn't have played 9. Bxc6." If we hadn't played 9. Bxc6, then Ng5 would never have played 10...Rb8 (it would have been virtually pointless), and we would not have been able to play Qxa7.

3) It's not like by playing 11. Qxa7 we'd be abandoning our plans to attack the doubled pawns. They remain a weakness that we would like to exploit; in fact, in several lines, we take aim at them again next turn (with 12. Qa4 or in one line 12. Qa8). Saying that we want to attack something doesn't mean that we necessarily want to do that at the very first opportunity possible--on the contrary, it often pays to wait for the best moment, just as we waited four moves to play Bxc6.

you're actually right
i thought we had a move we didnt
im changing me vote

I'm really really surprised. There are some people voting for 11. Qxa7?? Doesn't that move look awful to you on a first sight? It forces Queen to spend at least 2 moves to really get back into action. Black develops white-squared Bishop with tempo, since 12... Ra8 (trapping the Queen) is threatened. Seriously, in a position where Black has better developement, taking on a7 with the most powerful piece looks almost suicidal.

I like 11. Qxc6+. If 11...Qd7 12. Qxd7+ Bxd7 either 13. Rb1 or 13. b3 are needed to stop the invasion of Rook on b2 square after mass exchanges on d2, but then comes something like 14...Bb4 and Black gets upper hand on white squares, forcing our King to stay in the center and keeping the chance for 15...Bd3, 15...a5 and some other dangerous moves.

Therefore we need the following line: 11. Qxc6+ Qd7 12. Qc2 Ba6 13. a3. White has an ugly position and will never be allowed to castle, but after driving the Bishop from e1-a5 diagonal, we'll hopefully be pawn up in a slightly inferior position. Still, I think taking by Bxc6 was a mistake we'll have to pay for in a long run.

11. Qxc6+ Qd7 12. Qc2 Ba6 13. a3

11. Qxc6+ Qd7 12. Qc2? Ba6 13. a3 Qb5!. Here's a continuation for you: 14. Qd1 Bc3 15. Pretty much anything you like 15...Qd3. Here's a picture:


Still think "we need the following line"? Or that "we'll hopefully be pawn up in a slightly inferior position"? If you have any improvements to the continuation I gave, please let me know.

As far as I can tell, the main line after 11. Qxc6+ Qd7 12. Qxd7 Bxd7 looks good for Black with the double bishop and all of white's pieces are completely immobile, which at the least will give Black time to gain his material back.

I looked at 11. a3, and it looks like it just let's black capture right away with his rook after all the minor pieces are taken off, which means we will trade a doubled pawn for a slightly stronger (albeit slightly) pawn.

11. Qxc6+ Qd7 12. Qc2 Ba6 13. a4 instead of 13. a3? As it stops 13...Qb5. Then we can try to unangle our pieces with b3, Ra2, Ba3 kind of plan. Ugly? Yes. Playable? I don't know; the position sucks already.

But okay, 12. Qc2 leads to unpleasant positions either way. In view of this, I don't see anything wrong with exchanging Queens and trying to develop the remaining pieces kinda artifically (no castling probably, and I guess a1 Rook must move out through the flank).

I also think that for 12. Qxd7+ Black responds 12...Kxd7. Since the Queen got exchanged, the King does not need to be protected by castling and c8 Bishop belongs to a6 anyway.


Here (jdseemoreglass's vote), line goes 14. Re1 0-0 (pointless is 14...Ba4 15. Re3 0-0 16. Rxb3 Bxb3 17. Kc3) 15. Re3 Rfb8 16. a4 (depriving Bishop of a4 square) and after 17. Kc2, 18. Raa3 we are solid. True, it jeopardizes a4 pawn, but even at worst, we may just throw it away and even up material to catch up in development.

My last word today is that line I also considered 14. Re1 0-0 15. Re3 Rfb8 16. Kc2 Ba4 17. Rxb3 Rxb3 (17...Bxb3+ 18. Kc3) 18. Kb1 Rd3 19. Be3 Re1+ 20. Ka2 Bb3+ 21. Kxb3 Rxa1 loses the exchange and, probably, the game. Anyway, I copied the position and your analysis so I'll examine these lines closer at home. See you by now and thanks for enlightement!

16...R3b4 forks a- and d- pawns and we can't defend them both. It's the same tactic as appears in my summary under the try 13. a4.

Kc2-b1-a2, Be3 to stabilize our position.

Just now I looked at what happens if we start the plan right away with 16. Kc2 (Note: I'm correcting the move number to "16" instead of "14" as we've been calling it: these lines start at the 16th move), but it ran into problems: 16. Kc2 Ba4 17. Kb1 Rd3 18. Be3 Bb3 ties us in knots--the King can't move and he's blocking one of our Rooks in--and it's hard to see what we can ever do to get out of them. a4 doesn't really help because Black can lock us down with ...a5 and eventually will probably be able to pick off the weakened a4 pawn.

It gets very complicated, and you guys have done lots of great analysis on black's weaker responses, but the most critical lines have been the least analyzed. I think black's best responses are 11...Bg4 and 11...Rb6.

11...Bg4, qrs has proposed 12. Qa4 (we do need to extricate the queen with haste). However, after the pretty much forced sequence 12...Bxf3 13. Qxc6 (white can save this move until later in the sequence, it will just transpose) 13...Qd7 14. Qxd7 Kxd7 15. gxf3 Nxd2 16. Bxd2 Bxd2 17. Kxd2 Rxb2 black will soon at least even up material in a rook ending where whites pawn weaknesses mean we will at best be grovelling for a draw.

11...Rb6 might be even stronger but it is hard to tell as it has received almost no analysis. It seems that 12. Qa4 is practically forced here otherwise white's queen will be all but trapped after Ba6. However, after 12...Ba6 our king will be stuck in the center and after something like 13. a3 Bxd2 14. Nxd2 Qh4 it is starting to look a little dicey.

I think 11. 0-0 might be pretty decent here. Sure, he can play 11...Nxd2 12. Nxd2 Bxd2 13. Bxd2 Rxd2, but after 14. Bc3 we are still threatening both a7 and c6, and our game is much less hairy than the Qxa7 or Qxc6 lines.

Just because you spent time analyzing Qxa7 doesn't make it any less losing. Stop trying to gather sheep with repetition.