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str
Profile Joined July 2007
Bulgaria192 Posts
December 29 2007 21:11 GMT
#81
thx a lot hotbid, great read, made my day
btw didnt know jae was only 17...he`s been around for couple years already so when did he actually become progamer? at 14-15?
no units = no power
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
December 29 2007 21:54 GMT
#82
Doubled my respect for Hot_Bid the writer (and ofc Hot_Bid the cool person in general), AGAIN.

11/10.
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
December 29 2007 22:58 GMT
#83
Hahaha

"My OSL Checklist"

Golden. Thank you for the write up.
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
Felagund
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Philippines504 Posts
December 30 2007 03:53 GMT
#84
Great article.

Hmm, it seems that, bonjwa or not (hot issue), Bisu is the benchmark with which to measure a Zerg player's skill (for lack of a better word).[*] sAviOr failed, and so he fell (still hoping for his return, though . . . )

The reason I used to like even a slumping sAviOr more than a rising Jaedong was that, if sAviOr played against anyone (except Bisu), he can win. But if Jaedong played against a Protoss, I looked the other way. This OSL finals match changed my belief--and your analysis made his victory even more impressive to me.

And so to extend the Russian Winter metaphor: It drove back Napoleon, and it pushed back Hitler. Will it stop the Revolution?

*[Bisu vs Calm on Shin Peaks doesn't count, STX brought out their secret weapon TossGirl, distracting Bisu.]
TL CJ Entusman #5 "now she is unarmed, u shall go gather ur army, siege ur tanks and her choke and send some vessels to spot her lurkers, at this time she may have defilers so, if u spot some, unsiege and bring fbs" -Ki_Do
Letmelose
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Korea (South)3227 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-12-30 12:38:40
December 30 2007 12:35 GMT
#85
Very nice.

Screw the fact that he is the best ZvZ player I've ever seen, beating terran players with ease I've only seen in a couple of zerg players throughout all these years, hell, I you can even take away his recent triumph in the Starleague. What excites me most about Jaedong is his hardware.

Compare Savior for example. Savior gained his domination by creating his own unique paradigm, gaining map control with efficiency never seen before or since, but I've always felt that his micromanagement and macromanagement was never jaw droppingly great. His mutalisk raids simply bought time, his lurker count was always JUST right and you rarely saw him overpower his opponents with raw force. His relatively low APM was rarely exposed due to his efficiency and great multitasking skills. People used to say that Savior didn't utilize mutalisks to their limits or do stuff like that because he didn't need to. Well, it was true when his game plan was so far ahead of everyone, but gamers of today have Savior's number and we see him struggling to keep up.

I know some people saw a ray hope in Savior's closest struggle yet against Bisu this Starleague, but I personally gave up all hope. Savior simply couldn't keep up with Bisu's hardware. He had great starts in all three games: cutting Bisu's attempts to gain information with probes, tricking Bisu into making too much cannons, too little, or simply placing them in the wrong places. It wasn't his choice of build orders, his condition or the choices he made that cost him a place in the OSL semi-finals. He did almost everything he could and should have done. We saw 3 great games because of that. But that's it. This was as good as it got for Savior. In game 3, he failed to overpower Bisu after tricking him into building too much cannons, struggled with constant harassment and eventually got run over. He won the mind battles, but lost it with his gaming limitations.

Out of all the zergs I've seen, Jaedong has the best gaming ability (it's hard to define, but lets just say it's his gaming basics). What makes his mutalisks amazing is the fact that he can utilize them so well AND not lose control of other aspects of the game at the same time. Other zerg gamers can mimic his mutalisk raids, but fail to keep up with other tasks needed to win the game. Some, like Savior, don't bother to and concentrate more on overall game management.

You can say that mindless clicking can be attained through mass practice. I say otherwise. No zerg gamers of today, even with exhausting practice schedules manage to duplicate the intricate gaming skills that Jaedong displays.

Bisu's domination in ZvP won't last long. It was only a year ago when it was difficult to name a terran who had good odds in beating Savior. Nowdays Savior struggle against ANY half decent terrans (not that it's wrong, it's understandable that a zerg struggles with terrans, especially one that's fallen from grace). I'm not sure if Jaedong's the one to crumble Bisu's yet untainted domination against zergs. Maybe it's too early. But even now, if I had to pick just one zerg player capable of beating Bisu, it won't be Savior. It'll be Jaedong.
TL+ Member
suprabum3
Profile Joined December 2007
United States373 Posts
December 30 2007 16:52 GMT
#86
hmmmm.. you pose a really good argument, and youve got me thinking. after watching jaedong dismantle free in PL recently after his osl win i can see where your coming from. like someone said in another thread bisu is the benchmark that all zerg players will be judged by. after watching jaedongs games again i must say im not that impressed w/ his micro, i think bisu is just on a totally different level, but his macro is on par w/ oov, and if he can push through bisu's crippling and un-avoidable harass thereby gaining some sort of map control the kid might just have a chance. needless to say im extremely excited 2watch bisu/jaedong in ro32..

hopefully they start a rivalry like we've never seen in pro-gaming.. bisu is king, jaedong is rising royalty. a week away, let the clash of the titans begin!
There are two types of tragedies in life. One is not getting what you want, the other is getting it..
Dreamer]
Profile Joined November 2005
Sweden358 Posts
December 30 2007 17:34 GMT
#87
Hot_Bid that was a great article, I love you!
It has to start somewhere, It has to start sometime. What better place than here, what better time than now?
Thegreatbeyond
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States287 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-12-30 19:11:44
December 30 2007 19:10 GMT
#88
Very nice.

Screw the fact that he is the best ZvZ player I've ever seen, beating terran players with ease I've only seen in a couple of zerg players throughout all these years, hell, I you can even take away his recent triumph in the Starleague. What excites me most about Jaedong is his hardware.

Compare Savior for example. Savior gained his domination by creating his own unique paradigm, gaining map control with efficiency never seen before or since, but I've always felt that his micromanagement and macromanagement was never jaw droppingly great. His mutalisk raids simply bought time, his lurker count was always JUST right and you rarely saw him overpower his opponents with raw force. His relatively low APM was rarely exposed due to his efficiency and great multitasking skills. People used to say that Savior didn't utilize mutalisks to their limits or do stuff like that because he didn't need to. Well, it was true when his game plan was so far ahead of everyone, but gamers of today have Savior's number and we see him struggling to keep up.

I know some people saw a ray hope in Savior's closest struggle yet against Bisu this Starleague, but I personally gave up all hope. Savior simply couldn't keep up with Bisu's hardware. He had great starts in all three games: cutting Bisu's attempts to gain information with probes, tricking Bisu into making too much cannons, too little, or simply placing them in the wrong places. It wasn't his choice of build orders, his condition or the choices he made that cost him a place in the OSL semi-finals. He did almost everything he could and should have done. We saw 3 great games because of that. But that's it. This was as good as it got for Savior. In game 3, he failed to overpower Bisu after tricking him into building too much cannons, struggled with constant harassment and eventually got run over. He won the mind battles, but lost it with his gaming limitations.

Out of all the zergs I've seen, Jaedong has the best gaming ability (it's hard to define, but lets just say it's his gaming basics). What makes his mutalisks amazing is the fact that he can utilize them so well AND not lose control of other aspects of the game at the same time. Other zerg gamers can mimic his mutalisk raids, but fail to keep up with other tasks needed to win the game. Some, like Savior, don't bother to and concentrate more on overall game management.

You can say that mindless clicking can be attained through mass practice. I say otherwise. No zerg gamers of today, even with exhausting practice schedules manage to duplicate the intricate gaming skills that Jaedong displays.

Bisu's domination in ZvP won't last long. It was only a year ago when it was difficult to name a terran who had good odds in beating Savior. Nowdays Savior struggle against ANY half decent terrans (not that it's wrong, it's understandable that a zerg struggles with terrans, especially one that's fallen from grace). I'm not sure if Jaedong's the one to crumble Bisu's yet untainted domination against zergs. Maybe it's too early. But even now, if I had to pick just one zerg player capable of beating Bisu, it won't be Savior. It'll be Jaedong.



Ooooh boy
SonuvBob
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Aiur21550 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-12-30 22:20:26
December 30 2007 22:04 GMT
#89
What a useful post you've made there, Thegreatbeyond. We're all so very proud of you!

(That's a friendly way of saying that quoting a huge post with a useless one-liner is kinda frowned upon)

(Which is a friendly way of saying some mean things that I'm too friendly to say)
Administrator
pachi
Profile Joined October 2006
Melbourne5338 Posts
December 30 2007 22:34 GMT
#90
On December 30 2007 06:11 str wrote:
thx a lot hotbid, great read, made my day
btw didnt know jae was only 17...he`s been around for couple years already so when did he actually become progamer? at 14-15?


He became a progamer in March 2006, so at that time (His birthday is Jan 9), he was 16.
Moderatorpachi fanclub http://goto.tl/6DI9 。◕‿◕。
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
December 30 2007 22:50 GMT
#91
On December 30 2007 21:35 Letmelose wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Very nice.

Screw the fact that he is the best ZvZ player I've ever seen, beating terran players with ease I've only seen in a couple of zerg players throughout all these years, hell, I you can even take away his recent triumph in the Starleague. What excites me most about Jaedong is his hardware.

Compare Savior for example. Savior gained his domination by creating his own unique paradigm, gaining map control with efficiency never seen before or since, but I've always felt that his micromanagement and macromanagement was never jaw droppingly great. His mutalisk raids simply bought time, his lurker count was always JUST right and you rarely saw him overpower his opponents with raw force. His relatively low APM was rarely exposed due to his efficiency and great multitasking skills. People used to say that Savior didn't utilize mutalisks to their limits or do stuff like that because he didn't need to. Well, it was true when his game plan was so far ahead of everyone, but gamers of today have Savior's number and we see him struggling to keep up.

I know some people saw a ray hope in Savior's closest struggle yet against Bisu this Starleague, but I personally gave up all hope. Savior simply couldn't keep up with Bisu's hardware. He had great starts in all three games: cutting Bisu's attempts to gain information with probes, tricking Bisu into making too much cannons, too little, or simply placing them in the wrong places. It wasn't his choice of build orders, his condition or the choices he made that cost him a place in the OSL semi-finals. He did almost everything he could and should have done. We saw 3 great games because of that. But that's it. This was as good as it got for Savior. In game 3, he failed to overpower Bisu after tricking him into building too much cannons, struggled with constant harassment and eventually got run over. He won the mind battles, but lost it with his gaming limitations.

Out of all the zergs I've seen, Jaedong has the best gaming ability (it's hard to define, but lets just say it's his gaming basics). What makes his mutalisks amazing is the fact that he can utilize them so well AND not lose control of other aspects of the game at the same time. Other zerg gamers can mimic his mutalisk raids, but fail to keep up with other tasks needed to win the game. Some, like Savior, don't bother to and concentrate more on overall game management.

You can say that mindless clicking can be attained through mass practice. I say otherwise. No zerg gamers of today, even with exhausting practice schedules manage to duplicate the intricate gaming skills that Jaedong displays.

Bisu's domination in ZvP won't last long. It was only a year ago when it was difficult to name a terran who had good odds in beating Savior. Nowdays Savior struggle against ANY half decent terrans (not that it's wrong, it's understandable that a zerg struggles with terrans, especially one that's fallen from grace). I'm not sure if Jaedong's the one to crumble Bisu's yet untainted domination against zergs. Maybe it's too early. But even now, if I had to pick just one zerg player capable of beating Bisu, it won't be Savior. It'll be Jaedong.


I think you're spot on about Savior and Jaedong. Savior had insane game management, but his mechanics and everything that he did was simply good enough to get by. Savior's macro never wowed me. His micro wasn't that great. His multitasking wasn't that spectacular. But he was still able to take control in nearly every game and was still able to dominate.

And now his ability to control the game, and his dominance are gone.

Jaedong, on the other hand, has simply jaw-dropping mechanics. There are other examples, but his game against UpMagic on Bluestorm really sticks out in my mind. The way that he alternated between those two groups of mutas which he micro'd perfectly while never missing a beat macroing just blew my mind.

If Jaedong finds the right zvp "software," he will be the next dominant player.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
December 31 2007 05:41 GMT
#92
in JD we believe and to be honest, JD will come out of the blue, he CAN adapt, savior cannot. savior's "speed" is not on par with JD's. watch.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36390 Posts
December 31 2007 20:11 GMT
#93
seven days until JD vs Bisu!!!!

hyppeeee
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
daiKirai
Profile Joined September 2007
Philippines40 Posts
January 01 2008 11:57 GMT
#94
AWESOME...article...
and Jaedong as well...


sAviOr[g.m].
Metallingus
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Philippines468 Posts
January 01 2008 13:12 GMT
#95
Extremely well written! +points for the A Song of Ice and Fire reference. Stark FTW! :D

And yeah, you KNOW that Jaedong vs. Bisu is going to be HYPE
Overcome all. Especially plateaus.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36390 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-01 17:48:21
January 01 2008 17:47 GMT
#96
On January 01 2008 22:12 Metallingus wrote:
+points for the A Song of Ice and Fire reference. Stark FTW! :D

haha word
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
January 01 2008 17:59 GMT
#97
Awesome article, loved it!
allowicious
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States972 Posts
January 01 2008 20:19 GMT
#98
words cannot describe my excitement for the jaedong v bisu match ^^
lalalalala~~~
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
January 02 2008 23:36 GMT
#99
that was good
Administrator
proA.June91
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Vietnam445 Posts
January 03 2008 07:01 GMT
#100
good :D
pics are really nice :D

Savior still gets my heart
Fear is not what I'll get. It is what I've created myself
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