EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 44
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ranma1202
Vietnam62 Posts
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Ivs
Australia139 Posts
Although as the bw scene stabilises, there may not be that many switches after all, as a-teamers are earning enough to stay in their teams | ||
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Brad
2754 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:01 EvilTeletubby wrote: Yeah, noticed that too. Amazed how riled up everyone seems to get.  Understandable in regards to this controversial topic though. | ||
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Monokeros
United States2493 Posts
ITS ALL PRETTY AND GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT. great writeup man this makes me so hype for the future I cannot unwait this excitement I have. | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1250 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:12 Mailing wrote: Actually, it was more like this. That's why people are pissed. He took something that could of been educational to newer fans and turned it into SC2 bashing. No your quote turned it into sc2 bashing. As far as I could say he was stating exactly the original quotes + that the current competition is a farce specifically because a large group of people who have a similar or greater level of raw RTS talent as those dominating are not yet in your game. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
truth is I have been mostly watcing sc2 for the past year and just last month, after watching some good top S class BW pvz, or like, jaedong vs reality, I got hooked again. its so much more potent than sc2 it makes it really sad. Now I couldn't ever go back playing a single game of BW but that doesn't really matter. Watching Bisu PVZ just turns me on. | ||
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Rustug
1488 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:01 EvilTeletubby wrote: Yeah, noticed that too. Amazed how riled up everyone seems to get. From both BW and SC2 camp I might add. People showing their passion is a good thing. Although some contributors might want to count to 10 and let the high testosterone levels settle a bit. | ||
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uzas
Croatia52 Posts
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itiswhatitis
United States136 Posts
For the 4th or 5th time, why was this allowed to be featured on the front page? User was warned for this post | ||
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hyperioNsin
92 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:15 zasda wrote: This topic seems to be written by a bitter bw fanboy who is mad because sc2 is receiving alot more attention from foreigners than bw ever did and this site's userbase has grown massively because of sc2. So the 'maturity' argument is silly cos this is all about bw elititsts not accepting that their old game is not the main thing in this forum anymore for most users, therefore the "my idols would beat your bad sc2 idols !!11!!!1!11" type arguments. No... there genuinely was a severe and noticeable drop in posting quality/maturity as the influx of people invaded when SC2 was first announced. Anyone who had been here before would tell you that. IMO it's leveled out SOMEWHAT and has improved, but definitely still has a ways to go. Not that it has anything specific to do with the games, just more younger people were attracted to the new game, so naturally there were maturity issues. | ||
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CursedRich
United Kingdom737 Posts
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
As a few others have stated innovation is playing a much stronger role in SC2, it's not a straight up mechanics test (and I personally like that its not, strategy and creativity are much more interesting than clicking lots). The OP discounts the posibility that current SC2 players have improved as gamers since their average BW days. This implies top players are born and not made, which seems kinda silly. It's entirely possible that circumstance and perhaps playing in a scene where they can do well has motivated the current top players to train harder than they did in BW. It also conveniently ignores July, presumably as he kills the argument, but you'd could always argue him away with some story about a flood. I tried to go back to watch some broodwar games but my eyes didn't like it. The years have not been kind. | ||
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Nicator
United Kingdom24 Posts
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that Flash or Dong would do amazingly in SC2, but the skillset for SC2 is different enough that you can't just take 'these guys weren't good at BW' at face value. It's pretty obvious that there's only a partial correlation between BW and SC2 skill. | ||
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Humppis
Finland52 Posts
But no, instead of just turning off the SC2 stream, you decide to go bash SC2 on forums. Maybe that makes people suddenly play like Flash. /sarcasm On my personal opinion, i enjoy the games. Thats enough of a reason for me to watch SC2 pro gaming. And no, i dont give a flying turd about the "superiority of BW players". Ultimately, if they dont switch to SC2, they are meaningless to me, just like Tiger Woods is meaningless to me, because he plays a *differend game*! You can revere these people all you want, but your personal feelings for players of other sports carry no weight to me. Comparing established BW pros with still fumbling SC2 pros is like comparing an adult into an baby thats trying to learn to walk. Yes, adult has had time to learn to walk. Your point? From the sound of it, you guys should shut up and be happy that SC2 has soaked punch of low level players from BW scene. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
Also, I don't agree with the conclussion that Flash would be the unbeatable king if he switched. OP makes MVP or rather the skill difference between him/other BW players and Flash/JD greater than it actually is. They don't have 100%, 90% or 80% w/l ratio, it's 72/68%. Now look at MVP. You could argue if he was legitimate A-team player or not, but I'd say the BW skill difference between him and MC was actually higher than between him and Flash (in sense that if they played 100 games, MVP would've been able to took more games from Flash than MC from MVP). You could probably say that about all the SC2 pros. And yet, MVP is nowhere near to dominating these players in SC2. One of the problem is that SC2 is just easier game than BW and it just nullifies some of the skill differences. In the end the OP's sentence "Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn." can be 100% right. HOW will it affect the results of these players is TOTALLY different question though. edit: I think some people might be confused with code S thing. In SC2 it's 32 players who are playing in code S, in BW it's just few of the best players (Flash, JD, Bisu, Stork, Fantasy..anyone else?) | ||
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:10 itiswhatitis wrote: I just am still failing to see the point in featuring an "editorial" post on the front page that insults the accomplishments of all current sc2 pros, simply because certain players from a different game have not come to this game. This site's focus is Starcraft 2 these days, do you really think it's good policy to feature stories that essentially call the accomplishments of all the players a joke? Really questioning the judgement of TL on this one. I agree with this. Anyone else writing such things would get a close and ban but this is on the frontpage, I think that's why a lot of people are pissed off in this thread. I get the points he is trying to make but he is insulting pretty much every SC2 player and SC2 fan with his comments which is completely unnecessary. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:01 Lemonwalrus wrote: No, I am not. Excuses like "Oh I would be better but I also have a real life" are silly.Oh, so your one of those "I'm smart enough to be a broodwar pro but I just don't have the time to practice all those lame apm mechanics thingies" guys, aren't you? I think that is is still not ok to belittle the championship of Fruitdealer or Nestea. They had shown the proper skills to aquire it. They differ from BW skills. | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:24 EvilTeletubby wrote: No... there genuinely was a severe and noticeable drop in posting quality/maturity as the influx of people invaded when SC2 was first announced. Anyone who had been here before would tell you that. IMO it's leveled out SOMEWHAT and has improved, but definitely still has a ways to go. Not that it has anything specific to do with the games, just more younger people were attracted to the new game, so naturally there were maturity issues. It has nothing to do with age, it has to do with group size. If you had a sample of 8000 brood war fans, the forum would be not more mature. If SC2 only had 1000 fans, they would be as polite as the BW fans are. Large audience brings out bad in people. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:24 Nicator wrote: Based on the logic in this post, why isn't MVP dominating, say, MC? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that Flash or Dong would do amazingly in SC2, but the skillset for SC2 is different enough that you can't just take 'these guys weren't good at BW' at face value. It's pretty obvious that there's only a partial correlation between BW and SC2 skill. The point is to get to Flash's level in BW you must get your fingers bleeding from practice. This is just totally another world, where the concept of "lax" practice doesn't exist. | ||
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