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On February 23 2012 03:10 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 11:11 The_Darkness wrote:On February 22 2012 04:32 Lasbike wrote:
"I pretty much have the best ZvP in Europe" He's actually being really modest. I don't know how anyone could honestly believe he doesn't have the best zvp in the foreign scene (rather than just "in Europe"). Since Stephano has struggled against MC and some other Korean Protosses -- Squirtle 5-0'd him I think -- I can't say he has the best zvp in the world. He has room for improvement, but I can't name 5 Koreans with better zvp -- maybe Coca (whose play is at who knows what level now), DRG, Nestea and Curious (maybe). Well, no, of foreigners he'd need to compare himself to Sen who is a beast at ZvP (beating Naniwa, losing to MC 3-2, etc). In Korea you forgot about Leenock (who isn't famous for vP in Korea, but he is capable of beating anyone, including MC) and Losira who is brilliant at ZvP. Lucky also has many good wins against P. So I guess you could make that list longer even on subjective grounds.So, best in Europe sounds about right.
Naniwa's PvZ has not always been his strength, and the 3-2 vs MC was NASL Season 1, pretty long time ago. I think currently Stephano owns the title for best ZvP outside of Korea, without a doubt.
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Does anyone else feel a void in their life during this time Stephano isn't streaming? So spoiled for a while there!
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On February 23 2012 03:47 Mementoss wrote:
I would easily say that Stephano is the best foreign Zerg/top 10 Zerg in the world. Not sure about best foreigner overall though. Every foreigner seems to go through a dominant streak compared to other foreigners every since the game started.
There's something in what you say. Way too much variability in the game (remember Jinro, the most successful foreigner in Code S in the history of SC2?). One can make statements about current form, though, and to say that Stephano has the best vP in Europe at the moment is a statement with enough objective evidence from recent results to sound accurate. Although I'd expect the tides to swing at some point again.
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On February 23 2012 04:01 Slardar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 03:10 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 22 2012 11:11 The_Darkness wrote:On February 22 2012 04:32 Lasbike wrote:
"I pretty much have the best ZvP in Europe" He's actually being really modest. I don't know how anyone could honestly believe he doesn't have the best zvp in the foreign scene (rather than just "in Europe"). Since Stephano has struggled against MC and some other Korean Protosses -- Squirtle 5-0'd him I think -- I can't say he has the best zvp in the world. He has room for improvement, but I can't name 5 Koreans with better zvp -- maybe Coca (whose play is at who knows what level now), DRG, Nestea and Curious (maybe). Well, no, of foreigners he'd need to compare himself to Sen who is a beast at ZvP (beating Naniwa, losing to MC 3-2, etc). In Korea you forgot about Leenock (who isn't famous for vP in Korea, but he is capable of beating anyone, including MC) and Losira who is brilliant at ZvP. Lucky also has many good wins against P. So I guess you could make that list longer even on subjective grounds.So, best in Europe sounds about right. Naniwa's PvZ has not always been his strength, and the 3-2 vs MC was NASL Season 1, pretty long time ago. I think currently Stephano owns the title for best ZvP outside of Korea, without a doubt.
Err, that's just obviously false. He beat Stephano and lost to Sen inside a month. Naniwa is a beast at PvZ, beating Nestea, DRG and other notables around the same time.
Nasl 1 was only half a year ago, and MC was in top form there, taking second, losing only to his true nemesis, Puma.
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Just to let you know, try to avoid Stephano's history if you don't want to be spoiled for Ironsquid. I'm sure some people use to look at it!
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On February 23 2012 07:32 Nelz wrote:
Just to let you know, try to avoid Stephano's history if you don't want to be spoiled for Ironsquid. I'm sure some people use to look at it!
dont they use cloaked maps so you cant see the winner?
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On February 23 2012 09:40 hyperdemented wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 07:32 Nelz wrote:
Just to let you know, try to avoid Stephano's history if you don't want to be spoiled for Ironsquid. I'm sure some people use to look at it! dont they use cloaked maps so you cant see the winner?
They don't 
But you can't know the opponent without a NA account so you're not completely spoiled :/
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On February 23 2012 09:59 BatCat wrote:
Isn't Ironsquid live?
I though so too, but on second look I haven't seen anywhere its says definitively.
At this point I'm suspecting its not live, but hoping otherwise.
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On February 23 2012 04:24 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 04:01 Slardar wrote:On February 23 2012 03:10 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 22 2012 11:11 The_Darkness wrote:On February 22 2012 04:32 Lasbike wrote:
"I pretty much have the best ZvP in Europe" He's actually being really modest. I don't know how anyone could honestly believe he doesn't have the best zvp in the foreign scene (rather than just "in Europe"). Since Stephano has struggled against MC and some other Korean Protosses -- Squirtle 5-0'd him I think -- I can't say he has the best zvp in the world. He has room for improvement, but I can't name 5 Koreans with better zvp -- maybe Coca (whose play is at who knows what level now), DRG, Nestea and Curious (maybe). Well, no, of foreigners he'd need to compare himself to Sen who is a beast at ZvP (beating Naniwa, losing to MC 3-2, etc). In Korea you forgot about Leenock (who isn't famous for vP in Korea, but he is capable of beating anyone, including MC) and Losira who is brilliant at ZvP. Lucky also has many good wins against P. So I guess you could make that list longer even on subjective grounds.So, best in Europe sounds about right. Naniwa's PvZ has not always been his strength, and the 3-2 vs MC was NASL Season 1, pretty long time ago. I think currently Stephano owns the title for best ZvP outside of Korea, without a doubt. Err, that's just obviously false. He beat Stephano and lost to Sen inside a month. Naniwa is a beast at PvZ, beating Nestea, DRG and other notables around the same time. Nasl 1 was only half a year ago, and MC was in top form there, taking second, losing only to his true nemesis, Puma.
Notice how I wrote "not always his strength". Naniwa has had amazing PvZ recently, it has dramatically improved. His PvZ before wasn't nearly as good. Half a year ago is a long time in SC2 Careers, many things can change in that time-span. As a huge Sen fan, I consider him the best overall foreign Z, but the title for ZvP specialist in my opinion rests with Stephano for now.
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wow stephano has a 21 win streek vs toss atm WTF
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stephano is king of zvp outside of korea, and maybe even in korea tbh.
i dont know how he does it, i watch his stream, i analyze his games and i see him beat mana with a semi all-in into a two base, double spire, muta build into macro game to take the victory.
blows my mind.
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On February 23 2012 03:10 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 11:11 The_Darkness wrote:On February 22 2012 04:32 Lasbike wrote:
"I pretty much have the best ZvP in Europe" He's actually being really modest. I don't know how anyone could honestly believe he doesn't have the best zvp in the foreign scene (rather than just "in Europe"). Since Stephano has struggled against MC and some other Korean Protosses -- Squirtle 5-0'd him I think -- I can't say he has the best zvp in the world. He has room for improvement, but I can't name 5 Koreans with better zvp -- maybe Coca (whose play is at who knows what level now), DRG, Nestea and Curious (maybe). Well, no, of foreigners he'd need to compare himself to Sen who is a beast at ZvP (beating Naniwa, losing to MC 3-2, etc). In Korea you forgot about Leenock (who isn't famous for vP in Korea, but he is capable of beating anyone, including MC) and Losira who is brilliant at ZvP. Lucky also has many good wins against P. So I guess you could make that list longer even on subjective grounds.So, best in Europe sounds about right.
Sorry, Sen may have once been in his league but isn't any more; Sen has generally been stomped by Korean protoss, including Hero and MC, except for at the NASL, which was a million years ago at this point. Among foreigners, there are no relevant comparisons any longer.
I don't think beating Naniwa qualifies you as having top 5 zvp and most agree that Leenock's worst match up by far is zvp. At best, Leenock's zvp is erratic, but probably is top 10, because he's a boss. Losira has slipped a great deal -- he's headed to the up and downs for code A (I believe) and has not played well in quite some time. I would have agreed with you about two months ago, but to call his play "brilliant" is definitely not correct at the moment. Lucky has good zvp but Stephano is better pretty much, at this point, at all phases of the game.
Obviously I'm expressing an opinion here, but here is some evidence to support my statement -- Stephano's international ELO is the highest of any zerg, including Koreans who play in international tournaments. I, like i'm sure you do, have some reservations about the ELO calculation given the sample size, at least as it applies to Koreans, but it's not that small a sample size and Stephano has been embarrassing just about every protoss on the planet other than a couple Koreans he struggled with on ladder and MC, whom he lost to at HSC after a night of partying (supposedly). Other evidence is that on the KR ladder he had the second highest winning percentage of any zerg in season 4. Assuming a more or less even distribution of wins and losses (which is probably not quite correct because zvp is his best match up and thus he likely did better in it), he probably also had one of the best ladder records against P of any zerg on the KR server. He also has 21 straight wins against Protoss in competitions. He hasn't been beating Code S protosses (although Grubby is respectable and Mana is the best foreign protoss) but winning so overwhelmingly against solid competition is evidence of extreme skill. Definitely top 5 in the world at the match up.
EDIT: His current win streak against Protoss is actually at least 23 in a row in competitions because the TLPD hasn't been updated to include his recent 2-0 stomping of Inori at the NASL qualifiers.
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just downloaded stephanos korea replay pack.. i didn't know he released one, so excited to watch
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On February 23 2012 07:32 Nelz wrote:
Just to let you know, try to avoid Stephano's history if you don't want to be spoiled for Ironsquid. I'm sure some people use to look at it!
How do you know the games are Ironsquid games?
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On February 23 2012 10:16 dsousa wrote:I though so too, but on second look I haven't seen anywhere its says definitively. At this point I'm suspecting its not live, but hoping otherwise.
From the almighty Liquipedia - "The group stage and the quarterfinals of the main event will be played online, while the last four will gather in Paris on May 5th 2012 in order to be played offline, in a convention center which can accommodate up to 2 500 spectators."
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On February 23 2012 12:58 Zeborg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 07:32 Nelz wrote:
Just to let you know, try to avoid Stephano's history if you don't want to be spoiled for Ironsquid. I'm sure some people use to look at it! How do you know the games are Ironsquid games?
I just guess because Stephano plays on his US account just for international event when he has to played American or Korean. So i make an assumption that he played two opponents yesterday for Ironsquid, the maps that he played on are not in the map pool of NASL3 but are on the map pool of Ironsquid.
I know who is the first opponent but i don't know about the second one.
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On February 23 2012 17:04 Nelz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 12:58 Zeborg wrote:On February 23 2012 07:32 Nelz wrote:
Just to let you know, try to avoid Stephano's history if you don't want to be spoiled for Ironsquid. I'm sure some people use to look at it! How do you know the games are Ironsquid games? I just guess because Stephano plays on his US account just for international event when he has to played American or Korean. So i make an assumption that he played two opponents yesterday for Ironsquid, the maps that he played on are not in the map pool of NASL3 but are on the map pool of Ironsquid. I know who is the first opponent but i don't know about the second one.
How do you know the 1st opponent ? :o
Could you tell me via pm ?
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SIGN ME UP
Et j'attend toujours cette bière à StPierre ;'( j'y tient !
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On February 23 2012 18:00 Black17 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 17:04 Nelz wrote:On February 23 2012 12:58 Zeborg wrote:On February 23 2012 07:32 Nelz wrote:
Just to let you know, try to avoid Stephano's history if you don't want to be spoiled for Ironsquid. I'm sure some people use to look at it! How do you know the games are Ironsquid games? I just guess because Stephano plays on his US account just for international event when he has to played American or Korean. So i make an assumption that he played two opponents yesterday for Ironsquid, the maps that he played on are not in the map pool of NASL3 but are on the map pool of Ironsquid. I know who is the first opponent but i don't know about the second one. How do you know the 1st opponent ? :o Could you tell me via pm ?
Done !
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EPT
