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On April 12 2015 14:16 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 13:58 Sentenal wrote:On April 12 2015 12:58 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2015 12:56 Sentenal wrote:
Brainwashing? Pampering, sure, but Doflamingo was already twisted before they even met him. sure but they filled his head with all that king crap like killing kids who picked on him or destroying cities he didnt like, his personality is a direct result of there work, thats how they wanted him to be and worked on ensuring he would turn out like that if he got picked up by someone else he could ahve ended up as a good person Remember Doflamingo asking his father for a gun, so he could go shoot someone who talked back to him? He already had a Tenryubito-eqsue "the world belongs to me" mindset. sure but that could have broken, he was pretty young it only managed to remain because the executives treated him exactly like a Tenryubito
Wait, so you agree that they didn't brainwash him, then? Because brainwashing would mean that he didn't think like that prior to their influence, and then they changed him from a nice kid to what he is now. Which is clearly not the case.
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On April 13 2015 01:12 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 14:16 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2015 13:58 Sentenal wrote:On April 12 2015 12:58 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2015 12:56 Sentenal wrote:
Brainwashing? Pampering, sure, but Doflamingo was already twisted before they even met him. sure but they filled his head with all that king crap like killing kids who picked on him or destroying cities he didnt like, his personality is a direct result of there work, thats how they wanted him to be and worked on ensuring he would turn out like that if he got picked up by someone else he could ahve ended up as a good person Remember Doflamingo asking his father for a gun, so he could go shoot someone who talked back to him? He already had a Tenryubito-eqsue "the world belongs to me" mindset. sure but that could have broken, he was pretty young it only managed to remain because the executives treated him exactly like a Tenryubito Wait, so you agree that they didn't brainwash him, then? Because brainwashing would mean that he didn't think like that prior to their influence, and then they changed him from a nice kid to what he is now. Which is clearly not the case.
That is not the definition of brainwashing and this conversation is stupid, the clear focus of the conversation is:
"Did the executives negatively effect Doflamingo's personality while he was growing up?"
The answer is clearly yes, please stop trying to pick up a semantic "victory" in this redundant debate.
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Brainwashing isn't just 'negatively effecting' someone, that isn't even what we are talking about. Brainwashing is radically making someone change their beliefs and thoughts, and he clearly already thought like that before he even met them. It wasn't brainwashing. End of story. Pampering, fostering, indulging, yeah, but not brainwashing. Its not semantics when hes saying something that is (or was) completely untrue. Don't try and tell me how to post, I'll post whatever I want.
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On April 13 2015 01:12 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 14:16 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2015 13:58 Sentenal wrote:On April 12 2015 12:58 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2015 12:56 Sentenal wrote:
Brainwashing? Pampering, sure, but Doflamingo was already twisted before they even met him. sure but they filled his head with all that king crap like killing kids who picked on him or destroying cities he didnt like, his personality is a direct result of there work, thats how they wanted him to be and worked on ensuring he would turn out like that if he got picked up by someone else he could ahve ended up as a good person Remember Doflamingo asking his father for a gun, so he could go shoot someone who talked back to him? He already had a Tenryubito-eqsue "the world belongs to me" mindset. sure but that could have broken, he was pretty young it only managed to remain because the executives treated him exactly like a Tenryubito Wait, so you agree that they didn't brainwash him, then? Because brainwashing would mean that he didn't think like that prior to their influence, and then they changed him from a nice kid to what he is now. Which is clearly not the case.
the Tenryuubito began it in his childhood by raising him to think that he was special and other people were not as important as him, to make him think that killing a normal person is perfectly fine
and the executives built on that foundation to make him even more twisted
perhaps brainwash was the wrong term though he was raised to think in a very twisted way, if someone else had picked him up he could have been raised to think in a more proper way
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On April 13 2015 01:34 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 01:12 Sentenal wrote:On April 12 2015 14:16 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2015 13:58 Sentenal wrote:On April 12 2015 12:58 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2015 12:56 Sentenal wrote:
Brainwashing? Pampering, sure, but Doflamingo was already twisted before they even met him. sure but they filled his head with all that king crap like killing kids who picked on him or destroying cities he didnt like, his personality is a direct result of there work, thats how they wanted him to be and worked on ensuring he would turn out like that if he got picked up by someone else he could ahve ended up as a good person Remember Doflamingo asking his father for a gun, so he could go shoot someone who talked back to him? He already had a Tenryubito-eqsue "the world belongs to me" mindset. sure but that could have broken, he was pretty young it only managed to remain because the executives treated him exactly like a Tenryubito Wait, so you agree that they didn't brainwash him, then? Because brainwashing would mean that he didn't think like that prior to their influence, and then they changed him from a nice kid to what he is now. Which is clearly not the case. the Tenryuubito began it in his childhood by raising him to think that he was special and other people were not as important as him, to make him think that killing a normal person is perfectly fine and the executives built on that foundation to make him even more twisted perhaps brainwash was the wrong term though he was raised to think in a very twisted way, if someone else had picked him up he could have been raised to think in a more proper way
More or less true, I agree with it.
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I would make the case that it wasn't necessarily just how he was raised because Corazon had the same upbringing but turned out completely different. It goes to the whole nurture vs nature debate. While Doflamingo was of course heavily influenced by his upbringing the fact that Corazon turned out completely opposite demonstrates that Doflamingo had an evil nature to begin with. The executives simply nurtured the evil side of him that was already there.
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On April 13 2015 02:32 ChiknAdobo wrote:
I would make the case that it wasn't necessarily just how he was raised because Corazon had the same upbringing but turned out completely different. It goes to the whole nurture vs nature debate. While Doflamingo was of course heavily influenced by his upbringing the fact that Corazon turned out completely opposite demonstrates that Doflamingo had an evil nature to begin with. The executives simply nurtured the evil side of him that was already there.
Corazon wasnt raised by the executives though
sure all things equal Corazon would end up as less of a dick then Doflamingo but i dont think its accurate to say no matter what Dofla would have ended up as the same POS
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On April 13 2015 03:11 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 02:32 ChiknAdobo wrote:
I would make the case that it wasn't necessarily just how he was raised because Corazon had the same upbringing but turned out completely different. It goes to the whole nurture vs nature debate. While Doflamingo was of course heavily influenced by his upbringing the fact that Corazon turned out completely opposite demonstrates that Doflamingo had an evil nature to begin with. The executives simply nurtured the evil side of him that was already there. Corazon wasnt raised by the executives though sure all things equal Corazon would end up as less of a dick then Doflamingo but i dont think its accurate to say no matter what Dofla would have ended up as the same POS
DD was a dick already when his father died, Corazon was not.
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On April 13 2015 03:51 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 03:11 Forikorder wrote:On April 13 2015 02:32 ChiknAdobo wrote:
I would make the case that it wasn't necessarily just how he was raised because Corazon had the same upbringing but turned out completely different. It goes to the whole nurture vs nature debate. While Doflamingo was of course heavily influenced by his upbringing the fact that Corazon turned out completely opposite demonstrates that Doflamingo had an evil nature to begin with. The executives simply nurtured the evil side of him that was already there. Corazon wasnt raised by the executives though sure all things equal Corazon would end up as less of a dick then Doflamingo but i dont think its accurate to say no matter what Dofla would have ended up as the same POS DD was a dick already when his father died, Corazon was not.
well IIRC we didnt actually really see corazon say or do anything
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Elentos
55594 Posts
I just realised that DD is literally Freeza about to destroy planet Namek and Luffy's G4 is Super Saiyan. The question is how I will get these images out of my head.
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On April 13 2015 04:54 Elentos wrote:
I just realised that DD is literally Freeza about to destroy planet Namek and Luffy's G4 is Super Saiyan. The question is how I will get these images out of my head.
so law is Krillin?
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 13 2015 05:00 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 04:54 Elentos wrote:
I just realised that DD is literally Freeza about to destroy planet Namek and Luffy's G4 is Super Saiyan. The question is how I will get these images out of my head. so law is Krillin?
Kinda. Although he's mostly Vegeta I'd say. Long history between the 2, know each other since one of them was a child, one worked for the other for a while, bursts out in tears when he realises he can't defeat this nemesis that has been haunting him for all these years by himself, grudgingly leaves it to his ally.
And yes, King Riku is Super Kami the Grand Elder Guru.
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On April 13 2015 04:54 Elentos wrote:
I just realised that DD is literally Freeza about to destroy planet Namek and Luffy's G4 is Super Saiyan. The question is how I will get these images out of my head.
So, DD will have another power up, will start to win over Luffy, but gets tired, and Luffy takes over, states that the fight is over, turns back with a smug face that pisses DD, A pissed DD uses an attack that hit himself eventually. Bird cage is coming to him, despite DD being unable to move, DD begs Luffy to help him, Luffy does, DD gets pissed again with that mercy high face stuff, and attacks Luffy out of frustation, Luffy ends the fight.
Sorry but Oda has yet to give us a Arc ending on the caliber of Freeza.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 13 2015 05:08 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 04:54 Elentos wrote:
I just realised that DD is literally Freeza about to destroy planet Namek and Luffy's G4 is Super Saiyan. The question is how I will get these images out of my head. So, DD will have another power up, will start to win over Luffy, but gets tired, and Luffy takes over, states that the fight is over, turns back with a smug face that pisses DD, A pissed DD uses an attack that hit himself eventually. Bird cage is coming to him, despite DD being unable to move, DD begs Luffy to help him, Luffy does, DD gets pissed again with that mercy high face stuff, and attacks Luffy out of frustation, Luffy ends the fight. Sorry but Oda has yet to give us a Arc ending on the caliber of Freeza.
I mean, if the big battle between Luffy and DD just ends in the next chapter I'll be disappointed because DD was hyped so much. And it's less that Freeza got a power up, it's that he started using all his power. So maybe if DD is finally forced to use all his power the situation is somewhat similar. Although Luffy will not stop the fight until DD is unconscious and the Birdcage dissolves, obviously. He doesn't Goku things like that.
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On April 13 2015 05:13 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 05:08 TMG26 wrote:On April 13 2015 04:54 Elentos wrote:
I just realised that DD is literally Freeza about to destroy planet Namek and Luffy's G4 is Super Saiyan. The question is how I will get these images out of my head. So, DD will have another power up, will start to win over Luffy, but gets tired, and Luffy takes over, states that the fight is over, turns back with a smug face that pisses DD, A pissed DD uses an attack that hit himself eventually. Bird cage is coming to him, despite DD being unable to move, DD begs Luffy to help him, Luffy does, DD gets pissed again with that mercy high face stuff, and attacks Luffy out of frustation, Luffy ends the fight. Sorry but Oda has yet to give us a Arc ending on the caliber of Freeza. I mean, if the big battle between Luffy and DD just ends in the next chapter I'll be disappointed because DD was hyped so much. And it's less that Freeza got a power up, it's that he started using all his power. So maybe if DD is finally forced to use all his power the situation is somewhat similar. Although Luffy will not stop the fight until DD is unconscious and the Birdcage dissolves, obviously. He doesn't Goku things like that.
why would people get disapointed the fights been going on for a good time and hes had like all his organs ruptured i wouldnt be surprised if it all ends next chapter
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 13 2015 05:30 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 05:13 Elentos wrote:On April 13 2015 05:08 TMG26 wrote:On April 13 2015 04:54 Elentos wrote:
I just realised that DD is literally Freeza about to destroy planet Namek and Luffy's G4 is Super Saiyan. The question is how I will get these images out of my head. So, DD will have another power up, will start to win over Luffy, but gets tired, and Luffy takes over, states that the fight is over, turns back with a smug face that pisses DD, A pissed DD uses an attack that hit himself eventually. Bird cage is coming to him, despite DD being unable to move, DD begs Luffy to help him, Luffy does, DD gets pissed again with that mercy high face stuff, and attacks Luffy out of frustation, Luffy ends the fight. Sorry but Oda has yet to give us a Arc ending on the caliber of Freeza. I mean, if the big battle between Luffy and DD just ends in the next chapter I'll be disappointed because DD was hyped so much. And it's less that Freeza got a power up, it's that he started using all his power. So maybe if DD is finally forced to use all his power the situation is somewhat similar. Although Luffy will not stop the fight until DD is unconscious and the Birdcage dissolves, obviously. He doesn't Goku things like that. why would people get disapointed the fights been going on for a good time and hes had like all his organs ruptured i wouldnt be surprised if it all ends next chapter
Couple of reasons:
- Luffy and Doffy actually haven't fought a lot, mostly small exchanges, they only really started fighting in the most recent chapter. Most of the fight has been Law vs Doffy.
- Luffy needs to have a chance to show off in an actual fight imo.*
- Doffy has been hyped up as an incredibly powerful combatant. Even after sustaining the injuries you mentioned, in the last chapter he also said that Luffy's haki infused attacks barely hurt him.
If it has to end in one chapter, at least it shouldn't be a one-sided stomp. All I ask.
Edit: * means I don't consider Hody, Caesar and Don Chinjao actual fights because none of them gave him enough struggle to bring out G4.
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lol you stop one whitebeard captain and everyone assumes your a god mode fighter the fact that hes pretty much made the fight 2v1 the entire time with Trebol helping him and zoning out Luffy/law as needed shows that hes not that big a fighter
not to say hes weak but 1v1 just isnt his strength
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 13 2015 05:48 Forikorder wrote:
lol you stop one whitebeard captain and everyone assumes your a god mode fighter the fact that hes pretty much made the fight 2v1 the entire time with Trebol helping him and zoning out Luffy/law as needed shows that hes not that big a fighter
not to say hes weak but 1v1 just isnt his strength
For one, he royally rekt Sanji. Additionally he has always been in control of all his fights even when Trebol was just standing there doing nothing, he dominated the fight vs Luffy for the entirety of the last chapter despite taking Law's ridiculous attack, constantly outmaneuvering and easily shrugging of the hits Luffy landed on him. And the fight started as 2v2, then Law took out Trebol making it 2v1, then Doffy got rid of Luffy via Bellamy. Even Law's "ultimate" attack was only a hit because Luffy and Law teamed up while Trebol wasn't participating. I don't think you're giving him enough credit.
I'm not saying he's a god mode fighter, obviously, but he has been portrayed as easily the most powerful foe Luffy ever faced, Admirals aside.
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On April 13 2015 06:00 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 05:48 Forikorder wrote:
lol you stop one whitebeard captain and everyone assumes your a god mode fighter the fact that hes pretty much made the fight 2v1 the entire time with Trebol helping him and zoning out Luffy/law as needed shows that hes not that big a fighter
not to say hes weak but 1v1 just isnt his strength For one, he royally rekt Sanji. Additionally he has always been in control of all his fights even when Trebol was just standing there doing nothing, he dominated the fight vs Luffy for the entirety of the last chapter despite taking Law's ridiculous attack, constantly outmaneuvering and easily shrugging of the hits Luffy landed on him. And the fight started as 2v2, then Law took out Trebol making it 2v1, then Doffy got rid of Luffy via Bellamy. Even Law's "ultimate" attack was only a hit because Luffy and Law teamed up while Trebol wasn't participating. I don't think you're giving him enough credit. I'm not saying he's a god mode fighter, obviously, but he has been portrayed as easily the most powerful foe Luffy ever faced, Admirals aside.
rekt sanji? he caught him off guard with abilities Sanji didnt know was there in an arena that benefited him
not saying hes a chump but i just dont see him as an equal fighter to Luffy honestly id even say Croc gave Luffy more trouble, Luffy had to die twice before he managed to beat him while Dofla hasnt even really hurt Luffy that bad
if it wasnt for the bird cage Luffy probably wouldnt ahve gone up a gear hes just on a time limit so he has to end it quickly and hes Dofla is fast enough to get around his G3 big hits
hes like the door guy, Luffy didnt NEED to go up a gear to beat him it was just a convenient test dummy for a new ability
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