EPTWhat Are You Reading 2017 - Page 14
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DeNikSSB
United States135 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/L2MFXeK.jpg) Rereading | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
I often feel that doing exactly this is the biggest reason for shitty stories with frustratingly stupid characters. Idiot driven plots I call them where drama and action is almost purely created by main characters make unrealistically stupid choices. But when writing fiction is there really another alternative to "backward engineer" a story from the ending scenes? | ||
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goody153
44309 Posts
On November 05 2017 16:04 B.I.G. wrote: Do you guys think stories that are written toward certain scenes are necessarily bad? E.G. the author wants a big showdown between good guy and bad guy in the end and to make that happen he perhaps sometimes had to let characters make unrealistic choices (like Lord of the Rings). I often feel that doing exactly this is the biggest reason for shitty stories with frustratingly stupid characters. Idiot driven plots I call them where drama and action is almost purely created by main characters make unrealistically stupid choices. But when writing fiction is there really another alternative to "backward engineer" a story from the ending scenes? Not really. Even if they don't do that it could still be susceptible to stories having a lack of focus and the story go all over the place and when the actual main story comes it may look really weak and out of the blue(not in a good way) when they go the center everything around the character. I think it could work either way whether they made it via "backward engineering" as you would say or build the story around a consistent character and just bump that character with events/etc to show his responses. And maybe the stupid glorified "good vs evil" that you dislike might actually be fun for the next person (like i sometimes actually want to read stuff that i consider stupid at other times). Enjoyment out of stories still depends on the personal taste after all. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18469 Posts
That said, it depends a bit on the book. Plot-driven stupidity is really irritating. But I'd say that authors who cannot come up with believable motives for their characters to act the way they do would fail at writing decent fiction regardless of how they set up their story. They fail to create believable characters when writing towards a big scene, but would very probably fail just as badly if following "realistic" character development and just create a meandering story that fizzes out without any real conclusion at all. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
![[image loading]](https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1388186808l/71318.jpg) | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On November 05 2017 16:04 B.I.G. wrote: Do you guys think stories that are written toward certain scenes are necessarily bad? E.G. the author wants a big showdown between good guy and bad guy in the end and to make that happen he perhaps sometimes had to let characters make unrealistic choices (like Lord of the Rings). I often feel that doing exactly this is the biggest reason for shitty stories with frustratingly stupid characters. Idiot driven plots I call them where drama and action is almost purely created by main characters make unrealistically stupid choices. But when writing fiction is there really another alternative to "backward engineer" a story from the ending scenes? easy solution: stop reading genre fiction ^_^ | ||
Flicky
England2675 Posts
On November 05 2017 16:04 B.I.G. wrote: Do you guys think stories that are written toward certain scenes are necessarily bad? E.G. the author wants a big showdown between good guy and bad guy in the end and to make that happen he perhaps sometimes had to let characters make unrealistic choices (like Lord of the Rings). I often feel that doing exactly this is the biggest reason for shitty stories with frustratingly stupid characters. Idiot driven plots I call them where drama and action is almost purely created by main characters make unrealistically stupid choices. But when writing fiction is there really another alternative to "backward engineer" a story from the ending scenes? Sounds like you're just reading shitty books. The entire Malazan series seems to be written so that all the characters meet that need to meet at a certain point, do so and it's amazing. I don't think you can blame the process, just author for being sub-par. | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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goody153
44309 Posts
On November 06 2017 19:19 Flicky wrote: Sounds like you're just reading shitty books. The entire Malazan series seems to be written so that all the characters meet that need to meet at a certain point, do so and it's amazing. I don't think you can blame the process, just author for being sub-par. I'm kinda part of the minority who didn't really find Malazan great as others did. I did find Chain of Dogs arc from the 2nd book very impressive but other than that it was just ok. If i'm being honest i actually liked WoT setups alot more than malazan's. Probably just my personal preference But yeah i kinda agree that it's not the process that's the problem but probaly just the author or could also be the preference of the reader. | ||
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NibbloniaN
United States377 Posts
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jodljodl
182 Posts
1) El Baradei - Age of Deception: The author was a IAEA director general from ~98 to 09 and in this book he reflects his experiences. I came across this book when i was looking for information about the recent Iraq.(~80s to pre isis). This book gives an insight in the IAEA itself, international diplomacy (he made me understand how important and fundamental customs can be) and the proceedings with iran, iraq and north korea. I can highly recommend this book. Informative and also well writen. 2)Hans von Sponeck - A Different kind of war: v. Sponeck was UN Humanitarian Coordinator for Iraq for about 2 years (98 to 00) before he resigned in protest of the UN sanctions vs Iraq. In this rather technical book (lots of tables and data) he describes the UN sanctions against iraq and their impacts. Though its not the most pleasent to read some of it made my jaw drop. And again it gives detailed insight in real diplomacy and politics. (totally forgot my favorite book  )3) Peter Fröbing Idling - Pol Pots Lächeln: (quick look and i couldnt find it in english) During the brief but cruel and devastating rule of the khmer rouge in cambodia one of the few officially welcomed and accepted visitors of cambodia was a small swedish delegation of diverse people. They took a guided tour through the land, came home and were excited about the cambodian experiment. Years later, the author follows their steps through cambodia while he talks to survivors, residents and some of the delegates to understand how it was possible that the swedes did not see the regime for what it was or at least a small fraction of their cruel rule. Excellent book. I really recommend it. I hope its available in english. | ||
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RDaneelOlivaw
Vatican City State733 Posts
![[image loading]](https://g.christianbook.com/dg/product/cbd/f400/8701171.jpg) I'm on a bit of a Chesteron kick. Recently read Heretics, Orthodoxy, and The Man Who Was Thursday. I love the joy of his writing...one gets the impression he loved every word he wrote, even when writing about the most serious of topics. His command of the language and his humorous turns of phrase are also quite enjoyable, though at times a bit overly much. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-contact/544131/?single_page=true | ||
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Flicky
England2675 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
![[image loading]](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZhcGacfeL._SX325_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg) | ||
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Flicky
England2675 Posts
On November 10 2017 01:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: i just finished reading (finally got around to it) mishima's sea of fertility actaully and i liked it. haven't read his other stuff but from what i understand the themes are pretty consistent over his career. what didnt you get? Don't think there was anything I didn't get, just that it wasn't giving me much. The main character wasn't that strange and unique person that is present in all my preferred books and didn't have a big charisma or anything to drive me through it. He also doesn't present a new way of looking at things that I could learn from and he was just kind of uninteresting and I couldn't relate to him at all. The way he acts and behaves (especially around people and specifically women) just seemed foreign to me and didn't leave me with much. On a side point, I started going to the Library again and I just need to whinge about it for a moment. The place is really awkwardly laid out (general classics being put in LGBT because they have a gay character in them) and full of almost nothing of use to me. I have successfully located and borrowed exactly zero books in the last two months. Everything has either been stolen (due 2011, not returned), was never part of the library or if I'm lucky, out on loan. I tried to secure a book out on loan (reserving it) and was told that the person didn't bring it back. I started going because I need to save money and so stopped buying books but I'm out of books and have almost nothing to go with. There's one book left on a book share shelf, then I'm totally out. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4769 Posts
On November 10 2017 21:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Is it good? | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On November 14 2017 23:53 Flicky wrote: Don't think there was amazing I didn't get, just that it wasn't giving me much. The main character wasn't that strange and unique person that is present in all my preferred books and didn't have a big charisma or anything to drive me through it. He also doesn't present a new way of looking at things that I could learn from and he was just kind of uninteresting and I couldn't relate to him at all. The way he acts and behaves (especially around people and specifically women) just seemed foreign to me and didn't leave me with much. On a side point, I started going to the Library again and I just need to whinge about it for a moment. The place is really awkwardly laid out (general classics being put in LGBT because they have a gay character in them) and full of almost nothing of use to me. I have successfully located and borrowed exactly zero books in the last two months. Everything has either been stolen (due 2011, not returned), was never part of the library or if I'm lucky, out on loan. I tried to secure a book out on loan (reserving it) and was told that the person didn't bring it back. I started going because I need to save money and so stopped buying books but I'm out of books and have almost nothing to go with. There's one book left on a book share shelf, then I'm totally out. Honestly, get an e-reader and download stuff if you dont have the money for books. | ||
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