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On February 11 2013 16:52 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 16:35 DystopiaX wrote:
ok, the way I read it made it sound like you were saying Ren was part of it/collaborating with FUG, not being manipulated.
Like I said, SIU basically confirmed YHS is with FUG so him collaborating with Hwaryun to make all the shit happen isn't surprising. I could see Headon being in on it too- I remember at some point suspecting that Headon might have been FUG as well.
However that doesn't really prove anything we don't know- that YHS (and by extension FUG) manipulated the Test Floor to make Baam reveal that he's an Irregular+ separate him from his friends to train him and get leverage over him. Like I said it would be interesting if the Guardians were in on it but we've seen pretty much no evidence to that effect so far. Well, Head On is a guardian... of the 1st floor. And it seems like he has more power than the rest of the guardians (since he is the one who chooses regulars). I am also extremely suspicious of the "submerged fish hunt" (aka last examination ch59) given the 2nd floor Guardian gave.... especially because the fact that Yu Han Sung called himself "and I'm the submerged fish hidden deep inside to consume such beings" (ch56) when fighting Ren and then agreeing to help him with his objectives. Come on now. Like I said, it isolated both Rachel and Baam. Rachel, obviously, being the heroine of the story (by Head On, Hwa Ryun and YHS), is told to kill off Baam... after they manipulated Ren into sending the Bull after him. It's too much of a coincidence to ignore IMO. I've reread the first part 4 times now, so I'm pretty sure about my conclusions -- I was the dude on page 43 who commented about reading through OP and ToG 3-4 times, lol. The two manga/manhwa has the best depth any I've read so far.
I thought Headon wasn't the floor guardian, he was the person in charge of the floor (appointed by Zahard or whatever to conduct tests in place of the guardian). Like Evankhell on the Test Floor, not like the thing that the Wave Controllers have to make a contract with.
The point I was making before (assuming I'm correct about Headon not being a Guardian) is that Hwaryun and YHS are obviously part of FUG, and Headon might be part of FUG, so SIU basically already told us that they told Rachel to "kill" Baam- he reveals this himself as part of the comic. The part of your theory I think doesn't quite fit is that the guardians are part of it too, when there's no indication (the part about YHS saying what he said is IMO less of an indication that the 2nd floor guardian is in cahoots with FUG and more that YHS is using that phrase himself to look cool action comic style. That plus while the guardian gave Baam the test we don't know if the guardian himself called it a submerged fish hunt or if that's the title YHS gave it when explaining it to the rest of the regulars.
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Rachel went batshit crazy there ! She is definitely joining FUG at one point or another.
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On February 11 2013 17:24 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 16:52 eshlow wrote:On February 11 2013 16:35 DystopiaX wrote:
ok, the way I read it made it sound like you were saying Ren was part of it/collaborating with FUG, not being manipulated.
Like I said, SIU basically confirmed YHS is with FUG so him collaborating with Hwaryun to make all the shit happen isn't surprising. I could see Headon being in on it too- I remember at some point suspecting that Headon might have been FUG as well.
However that doesn't really prove anything we don't know- that YHS (and by extension FUG) manipulated the Test Floor to make Baam reveal that he's an Irregular+ separate him from his friends to train him and get leverage over him. Like I said it would be interesting if the Guardians were in on it but we've seen pretty much no evidence to that effect so far. Well, Head On is a guardian... of the 1st floor. And it seems like he has more power than the rest of the guardians (since he is the one who chooses regulars). I am also extremely suspicious of the "submerged fish hunt" (aka last examination ch59) given the 2nd floor Guardian gave.... especially because the fact that Yu Han Sung called himself "and I'm the submerged fish hidden deep inside to consume such beings" (ch56) when fighting Ren and then agreeing to help him with his objectives. Come on now. Like I said, it isolated both Rachel and Baam. Rachel, obviously, being the heroine of the story (by Head On, Hwa Ryun and YHS), is told to kill off Baam... after they manipulated Ren into sending the Bull after him. It's too much of a coincidence to ignore IMO. I've reread the first part 4 times now, so I'm pretty sure about my conclusions -- I was the dude on page 43 who commented about reading through OP and ToG 3-4 times, lol. The two manga/manhwa has the best depth any I've read so far. I thought Headon wasn't the floor guardian, he was the person in charge of the floor (appointed by Zahard or whatever to conduct tests in place of the guardian). Like Evankhell on the Test Floor, not like the thing that the Wave Controllers have to make a contract with. The point I was making before (assuming I'm correct about Headon not being a Guardian) is that Hwaryun and YHS are obviously part of FUG, and Headon might be part of FUG, so SIU basically already told us that they told Rachel to "kill" Baam- he reveals this himself as part of the comic. The part of your theory I think doesn't quite fit is that the guardians are part of it too, when there's no indication (the part about YHS saying what he said is IMO less of an indication that the 2nd floor guardian is in cahoots with FUG and more that YHS is using that phrase himself to look cool action comic style. That plus while the guardian gave Baam the test we don't know if the guardian himself called it a submerged fish hunt or if that's the title YHS gave it when explaining it to the rest of the regulars.
Headon is the guardian of the 1st floor.... and he is also referred to as the caretake of the tower. Source linked to the chaps in the wiki:
http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/Headon
http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/First_Floor
Additionally, if you recall that when you take a test directly from the guardian, the test administrators are not allowed to change it which knocks out that reasoning.
Headon is definitely in on it, and it's likely that the 2nd floor guardian is too.
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Oh alright.
I never said that YHS changed the guardian's test, he only chose to name it something specific. Although that point is less relevant now that I know Headon is indeed a guardian.
Just to play Devil's Advocate, isn't there a chance that Headon isn't in on it, and FUG just took advantage of the situation? After all, we don't know Akryung is part of FUG for sure, and it's YHS who lends Hwaryun to Rachel, so isn't it possible that Headon did exactly as he said, and gave Rachel a means to climb the tower, and FUG through Hwaryun manipulated her into pushing Baam? I think it's possible that Headon could simply have meant that, through Akryung, she could climb the tower really easily, becoming the "main character", and then once she got to the Floor of Test YHS took advantage of this by assigning Hwaryun to her as a guide, who then told her that to become a "main character" she must off Baam.
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I find it interesting that Dan didn't manage to escape Rachel killing him, he's fast. Maybe Rachel is strong/fast as well?
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wasnt dan beat and tied up? perhaps even drugged?
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he was totally tied up and couldn't move.. lol, of course he couldn't run.
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On February 11 2013 23:11 DystopiaX wrote:
Oh alright.
I never said that YHS changed the guardian's test, he only chose to name it something specific. Although that point is less relevant now that I know Headon is indeed a guardian.
Just to play Devil's Advocate, isn't there a chance that Headon isn't in on it, and FUG just took advantage of the situation? After all, we don't know Akryung is part of FUG for sure, and it's YHS who lends Hwaryun to Rachel, so isn't it possible that Headon did exactly as he said, and gave Rachel a means to climb the tower, and FUG through Hwaryun manipulated her into pushing Baam? I think it's possible that Headon could simply have meant that, through Akryung, she could climb the tower really easily, becoming the "main character", and then once she got to the Floor of Test YHS took advantage of this by assigning Hwaryun to her as a guide, who then told her that to become a "main character" she must off Baam.
I think it's a possibility that Headon isn't involved, but I'd put the chance at it < 1%.
To me it seems like Headon just passed Rachel and Akryung off to YHS.
How would you explain the fact that Rachel was then advised by Hwa Ryun/YHS? Akryung was then removed, and Rachel went with Koon/Lee Shipsoo until they split off.
It makes more logical sense that Headon sent her up with Akryung to YHS who then put her in a test with Androssi.... and then moved them over to the crown game and then made everything like I explained.
It's certainly possible that Headon randomly sends them up and YHS does that anyway, but then who is persuading Akryung not to go with Rachel.... and why would Rachel trust YHS and Hwa Ryun if Headon doesn't know them?
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On February 12 2013 10:13 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:11 DystopiaX wrote:
Oh alright.
I never said that YHS changed the guardian's test, he only chose to name it something specific. Although that point is less relevant now that I know Headon is indeed a guardian.
Just to play Devil's Advocate, isn't there a chance that Headon isn't in on it, and FUG just took advantage of the situation? After all, we don't know Akryung is part of FUG for sure, and it's YHS who lends Hwaryun to Rachel, so isn't it possible that Headon did exactly as he said, and gave Rachel a means to climb the tower, and FUG through Hwaryun manipulated her into pushing Baam? I think it's possible that Headon could simply have meant that, through Akryung, she could climb the tower really easily, becoming the "main character", and then once she got to the Floor of Test YHS took advantage of this by assigning Hwaryun to her as a guide, who then told her that to become a "main character" she must off Baam. I think it's a possibility that Headon isn't involved, but I'd put the chance at it < 1%. To me it seems like Headon just passed Rachel and Akryung off to YHS. How would you explain the fact that Rachel was then advised by Hwa Ryun/YHS? Akryung was then removed, and Rachel went with Koon/Lee Shipsoo until they split off. It makes more logical sense that Headon sent her up with Akryung to YHS who then put her in a test with Androssi.... and then moved them over to the crown game and then made everything like I explained. It's certainly possible that Headon randomly sends them up and YHS does that anyway, but then who is persuading Akryung not to go with Rachel.... and why would Rachel trust YHS and Hwa Ryun if Headon doesn't know them?
The thing is that if Headon is going to send them up at all Rachel would have to meet YHS because he's on the next floor up though. Even if he wasn't collaborating with FUG the course that she has to go through to climb the tower would put her in contact with YHS and by extension FUG right after she met Headon. In Rachel's position I'd trust YHS...if the test administrator tells you that he has the power and means to send her up the tower, then I'd certainly believe YHS is in enough of a position of power to do so, whether I knew about FUG or not, to do so. And while Akryung would seem powerful at the time, Rachel has given an indication of knowing enough about the tower that having him there is still not a guarantee that she'll climb up successfully, and FUG has enough power and resources to guarantee Rachel that they'd be able to drag her to the top of the tower.
I don't know what happened with Akryung though since afaik he just kinda disappeared from the story.
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Yeah, that to me seems like it takes more assumptions to say Headon is not a part of YHS/HwaRyun/FUG.
Shrug. I guess we'll find out in a gazillion more chapts if SIU doesn't super troll us.
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correct me if i'm wrong but i'm trying to make sense:
FUG is a bad organization and they want to recruit bam/viole to kill the the god/king of the tower.
bitchslut is helping FUG, i'm not sure of koon's motive (just go up the floors?)
since bam is a nice guy and would not side with what FUG wants, FUG is using bam's friends as a leverage to make him do what FUG wants.
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On February 12 2013 14:18 jinorazi wrote:
correct me if i'm wrong but i'm trying to make sense:
FUG is a bad organization and they want to recruit bam/viole to kill the the god/king of the tower.
bitchslut's is helping FUG, i'm not sure of koon's motive (just go up the floors?)
since bam is a nice guy and would side with what FUG wants, FUG is using bam's friends as a leverage to make him do what FUG wants.
Basically, although I think TOG is too complex to simply label FUG as "bad". I think he's gonna slowly reveal FUG's motivations for wanting to kill Zahard, whether those are "good" reasons or not remain to be seen.
Koon basically wants to respect Baam's last wishes (since he thinks/thought he's dead) and get Rachel to the top of the tower.
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On February 12 2013 14:38 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 14:18 jinorazi wrote:
correct me if i'm wrong but i'm trying to make sense:
FUG is a bad organization and they want to recruit bam/viole to kill the the god/king of the tower.
bitchslut's is helping FUG, i'm not sure of koon's motive (just go up the floors?)
since bam is a nice guy and would side with what FUG wants, FUG is using bam's friends as a leverage to make him do what FUG wants. Basically, although I think TOG is too complex to simply label FUG as "bad". I think he's gonna slowly reveal FUG's motivations for wanting to kill Zahard, whether those are "good" reasons or not remain to be seen. Koon basically wants to respect Baam's last wishes (since he thinks/thought he's dead) and get Rachel to the top of the tower.
No he doesn't. He distinctly mentions when recruiting Dan that he wants to leave with everyone whom Rachel depended on while leaving her behind, so as to destroy her psychologically. To abandon her so completely after having built up her dreams and aspirations to ascend the tower because he knows she killed Baam. After all, "this is only something the cruelest can do."
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On February 12 2013 14:18 jinorazi wrote:
correct me if i'm wrong but i'm trying to make sense:
FUG is a bad organization and they want to recruit bam/viole to kill the the god/king of the tower.
bitchslut is helping FUG, i'm not sure of koon's motive (just go up the floors?)
since bam is a nice guy and would not side with what FUG wants, FUG is using bam's friends as a leverage to make him do what FUG wants.
You got the gist of it basically, though you cannot really say FUG is an evil organization based purely on their goal to kill Zahard. Maybe their actions aren't the most moral, but Zahard could be a tyrant who has no legitimacy to the throne, or doesn't deserve his rank after being unseated by others (Phantaminum and Enryu). You are right on Baam's situation though, the only reason he still is part of FUG is because they are threatening to kill his friends if he tries to leave.
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Man just when I started to like Dan as a character, queen bitch of the universe has to kill him off.
On February 11 2013 13:39 biaxiong wrote:Semi off-topic but was reading the beginning of Volume 2, where Yuri visits Repellista. At the door to Repellista has a huge sign saying Fus Ra Dah. Funny how you don't see these the first time. 
Also, I am glad you pointed this out.
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Bird'll never get to see Androssi 
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On February 14 2013 01:34 blubbdavid wrote:Bird'll never get to see Androssi
I liked the bird too
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Does Rachel know that Baam is alive?
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On February 17 2013 06:48 Enhancer_ wrote:
Does Rachel know that Baam is alive?
As far as I know, I'll go and say no.
Remember that Rachel once said she is "afraid" of the "night" (Baam name). So even if she has a connection with FUG I'd doubt she be fine with them helping Baam.
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EPT
