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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 26 2015 01:45 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2015 01:31 Emon_ wrote:
Stannis marches on Winterfell while winter is coming. Bloodmagic is in the air and Shereen Baratheon could ensure the victory if they sacrifice her to the red god. A man winning the throne but losing his family in the process. Renly killed, Robert murdered, his wife a zombie for the red god. Stannis appreciates Jon Snow, Davos and his Daughter. Book Davos is looking for Rickon on the island of Skagos. Book Jon Snow is on the wall in a wolf pelt.
Book Stannis only has Shereen with him at the camp who he has a bond to and no Davos to tell him otherwise. Surrounded by fanatics...
On the other hand, in the books winterfell is pretty much won and no bloodmagic is used that we know of Winterfell is pretty much won in the books? I never got that impression. In the books, it looks like Stannis' army is losing morale by the day, and that its ranks are shrinking. Lots of people are dying to the cold, others are walking, etc. Stannis is marching and the battle is imminent, but as far as we know it could go either way. I mean, that is what I gathered from the text at least.
The northmen hate the Boltons and haven't forgotten the Starks, hoping for Jon Snow or Rickon to take over instead. The Boltons are in alliance with the Freys, the men of winterfell are killed and the women left to live. Yet, murders start occuring and two Frey men get killed (and made into delicious pie). Also it's implied that Ramsey kills Little Walder Frey, Walda Frey's (Rooses wife) little brother. Tensions are high already. The northmen will join forces with Stannis and oust the Bolton/Freys. Stannis to make Jon Snow a Stark but he turned it down, so hope no falls to Sansa or Rickon (or a combination) to rule. Bolton/Frey have little chance with no alliances in the north.
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On May 26 2015 00:21 karazax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2015 23:51 Conti wrote:On May 25 2015 23:39 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 25 2015 21:33 Conti wrote:
The guys complaining here, for the most part, want a faithful adaption of the books, yet complain that the show is getting slow and boring. It's hilarious. The reason the show is so slow at the moment is because the source material they're adapting right now is so slow. If there's anyone to blame for this, it's the books, not the show. See, this is the problem. A lot of you are just blind fanboys of the show and create a useless caricature of what we are criticizing on the show. Barely anyone in the last several pages has mentioned anything about the books. It's all simply been about the fact that the writing for the TV show is just bad, regardless of the show's relationship to the books. As a stand-alone product, the writing for a number of the story lines is just weak, including Sansa's story, Dany's story, and particularly the whole Dorne thing. A lot of people in the last pages have complained about how slow and boring the show is now and that nothing has happened. That includes you, by the way. I'm not here to defend stuff like the Dorne storyline, or the surprisingly bad/boring fight choreography this season. I'm happy to admit that those aren't all too exciting. It just annoys me that a few bad scenes are picked out to declare this the worst show ever, basically. You could easily do the same with the books, but you don't want to hate the books, you want to hate the show. The problem is you are combining everyone who has a complaint into one person and trying to argue against them. Each person has their own complaints, some are bigger than others. Some are nitpicks, some are cringe worthy changes. Most of the recent complaints against the show would exist even if there were no books.
Hrrmm, it's hard to say what would have been done without the books. GRRM originally intended the story to skip ahead in time, but ended up writing the last two instead. Since TV is a different medium, the show writers possibly could have handled flashbacks and time acceleration better.
The writers have no excuse of it has to be slow "because the book material is slow" when they aren't following the book material in the first place. Personally I have never made that complaint though. I have seen more people who haven't read the books make that complaint than readers. I think it's because the big events that do happen don't feel earned or organic. Who cares if Bronn gets poisoned if he gets cured the next episode in the most ridiculous way possible?
I don't find the show slow either. I think that's kids who watch the show because it's popular. I don't think we were supposed to care that Bronn was poisoned. I think it was to establish more Sand Snake character - they're like their dad and use sex and poison.
There are just so many forced plots that the writers can't come up with a creative reason for something to happen that they want to happen. A marriage not being consummated changing from being legally binding to not binding from S4 to S5. Valyria being traversable in a single day via dingy and swimming. Greyscale being detectable within hours of infection, spreading to be the size of silver dollar in that time and not covering the entire body with a few days to a week, if not being fatal in that time, not leaving enough time for maesters to be called or the infected to be shipped to the leper greyscale colony. Littlefinger knowing that Stannis has enough men to take Winterfell before Stannis knows he has enough, prompting Stannis to unsuccessfully recruit the Wildlings and the Lords of the North, before finally, magically, having enough men.
You'd have to run Westerosi law by me regarding marriage. iirc laws can vary by region (in Dorne women and med inherit equally) and the North tends to be a bit different from the South. Also, Tyrion was encouraged to consummate with Sansa so I'm not sure it was ever established as being unimportant.
I don't see what the problem with travelling through Valyria and getting greyscale is. Jorah was more worried about pirates than stonemen. That's fine. The show didn't want to devote 10 episodes to time to the journey. That's fine. The show didn't want to spend an hour explaining how greyscale works, and spreads. That's fine too. This all just strikes me as nitpicking. A little suspension of disbelief should get you past all of it. Ex. greyscale shows up quickly where you are touched, and then spreads slowly. Was that so hard?
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that people *know* exactly how many men it will take to take Winterfell. That seems like something you'd be taking an educated guess on. As for Stannis having enough men now, he said in the last episode that he's going to try, even though the odds seem very doubtful. He's motivated by time and winter coming more than 'having enough men'.
Or the screenwriters taking away all organic character motivation, usually resulting in the character doing not only something completely against character but also the dumbest possible thing they could do in that situation. Examples – Littlefinger’s entire S5 plan. Jorah going through Valyria because of a fear of pirates, despite being in a little ass fishing boat, when he should have been more fearful of the Stonemen. Sansa not toasting to her own wedding when surrounded by flaying psychos. Dany forcing Hizdahr to marry her after executing his father, imprisoning him and threatening to kill him. Sansa getting raped nightly but obviously trying to provoke Ramsay by repeatedly calling him a bastard with no retribution.
I don't think Sansa not toasting her wedding was a big deal. There was a lot of awkwardness at that table coming from a lot of directions. As for calling Ramsey a bastard, that seemed more strategic. His position in his family is precarious and if Sansa really wants to play the game, she needs to figure out how to exploit that kind of thing.
Shiny Things – A trick used by the screenwriters to distract the audience from a situation of which they might otherwise question the logic. Used commonly in situations where the writer knows he has no plot advancement, character growth or just a really dumb situation and needs a way for the audience to not think too hard about it. Typically involves CGI or nipples. Examples – Almost all of Oberyn’s brothel scenes. Dany’s execution of an untried, probably innocent man as a response to the death of a man who warned her about executing untried, probably innocent men, where said execution was performed via dragon. Wooooooo, dragons. Ugh, where was I again….yeah, I guess that scene made sense.
Dany was trying something different. She was showing off her powers to the people who are almost certainly running the Sons of the Harpy. Her scene with Hizdar implied that it had the intended effect as well, since Hizdar was cowed into submission.
Situations where both the audience and the characters should know better than to be distracted and this element usually involves an extremely improbable event being used in a time and a place whose coincidence makes it almost infinitely improbably. Examples – Jorah and Tyrion see a dragon at the precise moment they are about to be attacked by Stonemen, causing them to not notice the impending attack. Dany finding a fully qualified dragon tamer, off screen and unknown to the audience, between her visit to her crazy-want-to-eat-momma dragons and her fully-control/obedient-to-voice-commands dragons at the untried, probably innocent man’s execution.
I think you're trying too hard to find flaws. Ex. Jorah and Tyrion seeing the dragon isn't why the were ambushed. That's just a coincidence. It's fine. You really wanted them to split that into two scenes for ... what reason exactly? There's nothing wrong with them seeing a dragon. There's nothing wrong with them getting ambushed. But since these things happen in the same scene and it's bad?
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On May 25 2015 19:27 Gullis wrote:Dany Tyrion Jora felt rushed and Dorne was crinch as always but other than that I think this was a good episode. The stuff in kings landing was nice and what happens at the wall and in the north set up things nicely for the next few episodes  I don't remember if Stannis/Mylisandre did anything to Myrcella in the books but I really am looking forward to see what happens there. Things starts to get really tense at the wall just as it should be and it will be interesting to see what happens with Sansa. Imo one of the best episodes this season quality wise. There was one thing I started to thinking about, apparently the Stormcrows deserted Stannis but aren't those Darios company? Tinfoil on! + Show Spoiler +This puts them in position to do something with the Iron island. Dario=Euron theory anyone? 
Darios company in the television series is the Second Sons, so the Stormcrows are NOT his sellswords.
In the books Dario commands the Stormcrows though.
Edit: Someone already pointed this out.
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I'm not going to judge Bronn's scene until they leave Dorne. I'm assuming it was necessary to depict that girl's character and her possible relationship with Bronn.
I don't understand why are they trying to make it look like Ramsay has to do something Roose's child. He's older and legitimized, therefore he shouldn't be worried about the inheritance at all. There is no need to make up a 'rational' reason to kill Walda or the newborn, Ramsay could do it just because he's a crazy sadist.
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The Tyene/Bron scene was pure nonsense. I wonder what they were thinking when they wrote the dornish part of the show, because it's really painfull to watch.
But, overall, a good episode.
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On May 26 2015 04:35 Sent. wrote:
I'm not going to judge Bronn's scene until they leave Dorne. I'm assuming it was necessary to depict that girl's character and her possible relationship with Bronn.
I don't understand why are they trying to make it look like Ramsay has to do something Roose's child. He's older and legitimized therefore he shouldn't be worried about inheritance at all. There is no need to make up a 'rational' reason to kill Walda or the newborn, Ramsay could do it just because he's a crazy sadist.
Because Roose could just have Ramsey killed once his other son is older and Ramsey knows that.
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On May 26 2015 04:39 ObeseHydra wrote:
The Tyene/Bron scene was pure nonsense. I wonder what they were thinking when they wrote the dornish part of the show, because it's really painfull to watch.
But, overall, a good episode.
theres a quota to fill
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On May 25 2015 23:59 Sholip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2015 21:13 Spaylz wrote:
I'm not sure I understand Littlefinger's role in all this though. He has a meeting with Olenna, he tells her he also has a young man for her, then Cersei gets trapped due to Lancel. LF can't be tied to that, can he? I can hardly imagine that he would have any impact on Lancel at all. It makes little sense to me. So am I missing something?
I would love to know this as well. I guess LF is referring to Lancel, but he joined the Faith way before LF arrived at KL. Also, I just can't imagine that LF tells Olenna, "Hey, tell the High Sparrow about Lancel, he will imprison Cersei". The High Sparrow must already know about this, and this move would make it seem like he actually arrests whomever he is asked to arrest? I don't really understand...
I think it was Littlefinger simply trying to gain favor with the Tyrells. He may or may not have known that the Faith had already heard Lancel's confession -- but Olenna didn't know.
On May 26 2015 01:23 -Archangel- wrote:
I can understand skipping on Sam's stop to Bravos during his trip to Old Town but skipping the whole trip and Old Town storyline altogether?! Really?!
What storyline?
Sam going to study to become a maester was probably a part of the original four year gap plan. Without the gap, I'm not sure if Sam going to Oldtown is going to be that meaningful. There will obviously be some plot line in the books, but the show may handle it very differently and for a good reason. Sam being at the Wall when Jon gets stabbed doesn't make much sense though. But who knows, maybe that will get changed as well.
Bronn + Tyene scene was probably about her trying to gain some favor for the future. To escape? Silly scene though.
Good scenes in Winterfell this week. And Tyrion reached Dany, yay. Things should pick up in Meereen. Of course with the next ninth episode's title, that was pretty much a given anyway.
Edit: Good scenes in King's Landing as well, especially from Jonathan Pryce and Lena Headey.
I also like this episode format where they gradually move from one part of the world to another more than the one where they jump all over all the time. It seems there has been a lot of experimentation with this recently. (I haven't really paid that much attention though.)
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Seems like I'm in the minority but in my opinoin what happened with Tyrion and Mormont was as bad if not worse than the Dornish scenes. Buying Tyrion, slave owner going to Meereen (I don't remember Dany restoring slavery there) and some random big guy setting the dwarf free made no sense to me.
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On May 26 2015 06:37 Sent. wrote:
Seems like I'm in the minority but in my opinoin what happened with Tyrion and Mormont was as bad if not worse than the Dornish scenes. Buying Tyrion, slave owner going to Meereen (I don't remember Dany restoring slavery there) and some random big guy setting the dwarf free made no sense to me.
All the fighters went out into the arena, except for Tyrion who was still locked up. The big guy just helped him get out there.
Slavery in Meereen is still outlawed. The fighters there are freemen. How the slaver planned on reconciling that isn't clear, but it's not impossible either. It's not like Dany has a massive civil service going around checking on and enforcing regulations. Also, sometimes people just break the law. The Sons of the Harpy do that quite a bit these days.
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On May 26 2015 07:16 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2015 06:37 Sent. wrote:
Seems like I'm in the minority but in my opinoin what happened with Tyrion and Mormont was as bad if not worse than the Dornish scenes. Buying Tyrion, slave owner going to Meereen (I don't remember Dany restoring slavery there) and some random big guy setting the dwarf free made no sense to me. All the fighters went out into the arena, except for Tyrion who was still locked up. The big guy just helped him get out there. Slavery in Meereen is still outlawed. The fighters there are freemen. How the slaver planned on reconciling that isn't clear, but it's not impossible either. It's not like Dany has a massive civil service going around checking on and enforcing regulations. Also, sometimes people just break the law. The Sons of the Harpy do that quite a bit these days.
I have a strong suspicion that, due to the HUGE fuss Dany was making over the past several episodes about the fighting pits, she would probably have put some effort into making sure those that were fighting were free men...
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On May 26 2015 07:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2015 07:16 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 26 2015 06:37 Sent. wrote:
Seems like I'm in the minority but in my opinoin what happened with Tyrion and Mormont was as bad if not worse than the Dornish scenes. Buying Tyrion, slave owner going to Meereen (I don't remember Dany restoring slavery there) and some random big guy setting the dwarf free made no sense to me. All the fighters went out into the arena, except for Tyrion who was still locked up. The big guy just helped him get out there. Slavery in Meereen is still outlawed. The fighters there are freemen. How the slaver planned on reconciling that isn't clear, but it's not impossible either. It's not like Dany has a massive civil service going around checking on and enforcing regulations. Also, sometimes people just break the law. The Sons of the Harpy do that quite a bit these days. I have a strong suspicion that, due to the HUGE fuss Dany was making over the past several episodes about the fighting pits, she would probably have put some effort into making sure those that were fighting were free men...
yeah I'm sure she has.
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Alot of the changes are like that, super convenient yet improbable. Like Dany just happens to go to the pit where Jorah is fighting. OK. And some random dude buys Tyrion for no reason and then some random barbarian sets him free because, I dunno, dude felt like smashing some chains that day. They keep doing things like that - like Brienne just happens to run into both Arya and Sansa and Bran just happens to get captured by the same dude Jon is hunting.
Plus then there is Littlefinger having magical teleportation powers. I'm half expecting Littlefinger to show up in Dorne in once scene and then cut to him at Moat Cailin and then watch him board a ship to Braavos. Or maybe he gets around so quick because the show will reveal he's actually a secret targ and a dragon rider.
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moktira
Ireland1548 Posts
On May 26 2015 00:00 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2015 23:59 Sholip wrote:On May 25 2015 21:13 Spaylz wrote:
I'm not sure I understand Littlefinger's role in all this though. He has a meeting with Olenna, he tells her he also has a young man for her, then Cersei gets trapped due to Lancel. LF can't be tied to that, can he? I can hardly imagine that he would have any impact on Lancel at all. It makes little sense to me. So am I missing something?
I would love to know this as well. I guess LF is referring to Lancel, but he joined the Faith way before LF arrived at KL. Also, I just can't imagine that LF tells Olenna, "Hey, tell the High Sparrow about Lancel, he will imprison Cersei". The High Sparrow must already know about this, and this move would make it seem like he actually arrests whomever he is asked to arrest? I don't really understand... Well, the High Sparrow already arrested Margaery and Loras solely because Cersei told him about them, so.. yeah. Apparently he operates on that principle. Which is really confusing me, too.
Yeah I was hoping someone would have a clear explanation on this as I couldn't understand Littlefinger's involvement.
The other weird thing was Littlefinger said that he offered Olenna the same gift as Cersei, why is he telling Olenna that it was his fault the Sparrows have Lancel? That seems stupid, and why would he even help Cersei? What is also surprising is Olyvar looked quite terrified when the Sparrows destroyed the brothel so why would he agree to helping the Sparrows? He'll be punished too! This whole thing hasn't made much sense to me.
Nitpick: how has Myrcella been in Dorne for years now but Gilly's baby is still a baby??
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On May 26 2015 05:43 BByte wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2015 23:59 Sholip wrote:On May 25 2015 21:13 Spaylz wrote:
I'm not sure I understand Littlefinger's role in all this though. He has a meeting with Olenna, he tells her he also has a young man for her, then Cersei gets trapped due to Lancel. LF can't be tied to that, can he? I can hardly imagine that he would have any impact on Lancel at all. It makes little sense to me. So am I missing something?
I would love to know this as well. I guess LF is referring to Lancel, but he joined the Faith way before LF arrived at KL. Also, I just can't imagine that LF tells Olenna, "Hey, tell the High Sparrow about Lancel, he will imprison Cersei". The High Sparrow must already know about this, and this move would make it seem like he actually arrests whomever he is asked to arrest? I don't really understand... I think it was Littlefinger simply trying to gain favor with the Tyrells. He may or may not have known that the Faith had already heard Lancel's confession -- but Olenna didn't know.
If this is true, the real question is why did the High Sparrow wait so long with accusing and arresting Cersei? Lancel has been a member of the holy militia for a long time already and probably confessed already, or are we indeed made to believe that Littlefinger tipped Olena who tipped the High Sparrow to ask Lancel about Cersei's doings?
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On May 26 2015 21:37 Ketch wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2015 05:43 BByte wrote:On May 25 2015 23:59 Sholip wrote:On May 25 2015 21:13 Spaylz wrote:
I'm not sure I understand Littlefinger's role in all this though. He has a meeting with Olenna, he tells her he also has a young man for her, then Cersei gets trapped due to Lancel. LF can't be tied to that, can he? I can hardly imagine that he would have any impact on Lancel at all. It makes little sense to me. So am I missing something?
I would love to know this as well. I guess LF is referring to Lancel, but he joined the Faith way before LF arrived at KL. Also, I just can't imagine that LF tells Olenna, "Hey, tell the High Sparrow about Lancel, he will imprison Cersei". The High Sparrow must already know about this, and this move would make it seem like he actually arrests whomever he is asked to arrest? I don't really understand... I think it was Littlefinger simply trying to gain favor with the Tyrells. He may or may not have known that the Faith had already heard Lancel's confession -- but Olenna didn't know. If this is true, the real question is why did the High Sparrow wait so long with accusing and arresting Cersei? Lancel has been a member of the holy militia for a long time already and probably confessed already, or are we indeed made to believe that Littlefinger tipped Olena who tipped the High Sparrow to ask Lancel about Cersei's doings?
That is how I understood it. Lancel seems to have kept that last part to himself until asked about it.
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On May 26 2015 20:34 moktira wrote:
Nitpick: how has Myrcella been in Dorne for years now but Gilly's baby is still a baby??
Time is convoluted in Westeros.
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On May 26 2015 20:34 moktira wrote:
Nitpick: how has Myrcella been in Dorne for years now but Gilly's baby is still a baby??
Bravo young marklar. Your marklar is marklar.
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Wow. Amazing stuff.
I want Mads Mikkelsen as Euron Greyjoy, please.
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EPT
