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Mecha King Ghidorah
United States595 Posts
Also is Viper in any another lane than mid viable in higher MMR. Me and my friend always go Earthshaker Viper Dual lane and this is our plan. We get our Q's at level one, we wait till their in the middle of the laneish. Then he fissures, stunning them and hopefully fucking up their pathing. I use that time to kill at least one player. We do the same thing a few more times allowing me to snowball and eat their team. Is this strat good? | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Riki isn't picked much at the moment but has occasionally been used together with wisp to pick off heroes, he was primarily used as a first position hero. Drow is either used as a first position carry or picked together with visage and is secretly a support. Spirit breaker was ruined and is so bad he's pretty much never picked anymore, last time i saw him was as an off-laner. He lost. I can't remember any specific sniper games but i think he would most commonly be a safe-lane first position carry. Blood seeker is typically sent mid to win/break even in his lane and then gank a whole lot and huskar isn't picked much but fnatic ran it once as a first position carry against alliance and it worked okay but the pick definitely wasn't what won the game. And viper can definitely duo-lane and doesn't have to be mid at all, he can safe-lane or duo off-lane too in public games. Then again a lot of heroes CAN duo off-lane in pubs without it being the most optimal. I can't tell you if the strat is good, but if it's working for you then it is clearly working. | ||
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HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
1) I often solo queue as Lich and get both courier and obs wards, 2 tangoes, and a gg branch. Sometimes I don't get the gg branch and save for a magic stick from the side shop if needed. If for some reason I can get someone to buy courier, I will get obs wards, 2 tangoes, a gg branch, and ring of protection (for eventual tranquil boots). Are there any other arguments for different starting items? 2) Pretend you know the enemy warded your pull camp. As a support safe lane Lich, do you immediately start saving up for sentry wards to deward? I assume that if you are in a trilane, you need to do this ASAP because you and your support partner will be underleveled from not being able to stack and pull? 3) If you know the opponent will be playing an invis hero like bounty hunter, pl, or even sandking ... how do you decide if you should buy sentry wards at the start? I mean I can make a decision based on my team lanes' kill/stun/slow potential. But often times it's a bit ambiguous whether or not we can get a kill even by buying sentry wards at the start. However, the harassment from sentry wards also might prove useful enough to make the purchase worthwhile. Thoughts? 4) Level 1 Lich ult ... if one full health enemy melee creep and one enemy hero are near each other ... will the enemy hero be hit 2, 3, or 4 times ... assuming I target the enemy hero first? | ||
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Mecha King Ghidorah
United States595 Posts
On June 12 2014 02:13 HighTimeDotA wrote: It's a decent strat but it requires your opponents to be out of position or have heroes that cant do anything to fight back. What heroes at lvl one ccould be able to fight back after an ES stun and getting Poison attacked multiple times without dying? | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
On June 12 2014 03:46 lac29 wrote: I've been playing a ton of Lich because of his flexibility in the side lanes as a support and offlaner (3.4k mmr level). I have a few questions though: 1) I often solo queue as Lich and get both courier and obs wards, 2 tangoes, and a gg branch. Sometimes I don't get the gg branch and save for a magic stick from the side shop if needed. If for some reason I can get someone to buy courier, I will get obs wards, 2 tangoes, a gg branch, and ring of protection (for eventual tranquil boots). Are there any other arguments for different starting items? 2) Pretend you know the enemy warded your pull camp. As a support safe lane Lich, do you immediately start saving up for sentry wards to deward? I assume that if you are in a trilane, you need to do this ASAP because you and your support partner will be underleveled from not being able to stack and pull? 3) If you know the opponent will be playing an invis hero like bounty hunter, pl, or even sandking ... how do you decide if you should buy sentry wards at the start? I mean I can make a decision based on my team lanes' kill/stun/slow potential. But often times it's a bit ambiguous whether or not we can get a kill even by buying sentry wards at the start. However, the harassment from sentry wards also might prove useful enough to make the purchase worthwhile. Thoughts? 4) Level 1 Lich ult ... if one full health enemy melee creep and one enemy hero are near each other ... will the enemy hero be hit 2, 3, or 4 times ... assuming I target the enemy hero first? 1) lich is the evil, don't pick it. smoke is good 2) never buy cour + obs if you trilane, buy obs and setnries, someone else will feel the duty to buy the cour 3)you're right, note : even if I start with the sentry I don't necesarily put it down very fast 4) do maths yourself or create a lobby game with enchant, it takes 2 mins... | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
 Lich happens to be far less reliant on his pull compared to other supports simply because he can always keep the lane equilibrium near his tower with sacrifice, and he gets a level advantage from sacrifice so he doesn't need the pull to break XP parity with the enemy. Pulling is still good though. If you intend on acquiring mek then starting with 2 branches if you can fit them in is very attractive. You can do creep hp and ult bounce math based off of the wiki. | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
@Sn0_Man: If I buy wards, courier, and sentries + tango, I find that it isn't enough regen sometimes to be aggressive with my harassment. And my tranquil and mek will be severely delayed unless my pulls are perfect and my carry gives me some last hits early on. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Up to u tho bro. PS: if you need 8 tangoes to support your harassing habits, you need new harassing habits. | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
You'd be surprised, maybe, at how many carrys don't deny when they have the time to do so (while I'm going off to sacrifice away from enemies or stack or pull). | ||
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Mecha King Ghidorah
United States595 Posts
Also other than silencer what heroes do you need to look out for as Viper? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 12 2014 04:51 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote: Is their any real way a Nyx can take on strength heroes and durable agi heroes until he gets E-Blade?? It seems like his only use is to murder squishy supports or DPsers which is fine but when a WK is smashing through your team wtf are you supposed to do other than snipe puck and AA over and over. Nyx still brings two useful stuns and mana burn to the table and can comfortably carry team items without sacrificing his own effectiveness (Urn, Mek, Necrobook, etc. are all good on him). He's hardly all-in on his burst damage/solo-killing ability unless you're buying Dagon every game rather than buying team items in games where it's more appropriate to do so. On June 12 2014 04:53 lac29 wrote: I haven't done actual calculations ... but can't you single pull and sacrifice and deny the entire wave? Safe lane. Yes, but why not just double pull? You still deny the entire wave and get more XP. The only time this would not be prudent is if you can't control the 2nd pull camp but if you can't dominate your lane to that degree, Lich isn't a good pick because his strength largely rides on his laning strength. | ||
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Mecha King Ghidorah
United States595 Posts
On June 12 2014 04:55 TheYango wrote: Nyx still brings two useful stuns and mana burn to the table and can comfortably carry team items without sacrificing his own effectiveness (Urn, Mek, Necrobook, etc. are all good on him). He's hardly all-in on his burst damage/solo-killing ability unless you're buying Dagon every game rather than buying team items in games where it's more appropriate to do so. Yes, but why not just double pull? You still deny the entire wave and get more XP. The only time this would not be prudent is if you can't control the 2nd pull camp but if you can't dominate your lane to that degree, Lich isn't a good pick because his strength largely rides on his laning strength. Thing is W/O Dagon i noticed that all your damage leaves them in the red practically everytime at full health so dagon is a must :/. Though I guess I could try and use his abilities to team fight more. | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
Some instances you also block the top lane camp so that Radiant cannot pull to regain creep equilibrium. Thus, you must stack in order to deny a wave. Lich, I assume would work nicely in single pulling and denying a creep to deny the entire wave without having the double pull and risk exp or even gold stolen by a solo offlaner. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
On June 12 2014 03:56 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote: What heroes at lvl one ccould be able to fight back after an ES stun and getting Poison attacked multiple times without dying? off the top of my head any dual lane with a bane weaver abbadon bristle madcow clockwerk timber pa riki etc. some heroes cant even die when they are solo. it requires the enemy to be out of position to do anything. and even then unless they dont tangos they can get out of most situations. edit: the roaming combo i created yesterday for compedium challenge would easily defeat es+viper. it was orge+razor. | ||
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