EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 866
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Laurens
Belgium4558 Posts
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On May 22 2014 21:36 Laurens wrote: Yeah it seems like most rules related to orbs are somewhat arbitrary xD Well actually they've related to WC3 engine mechanics etc.. Currently not all of them preserved with the same limitations. (Luna glaives etc..) | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On May 22 2014 21:29 ReignSupreme. wrote: I thought (and personally use) that you only need 2 in X-Mark to land Torrent reliably? I never seem to have trouble using 2 anyway. Could be. All i know is that I had troubles playing kunkka. I could not land alot of reliable torrents or combo's because i was too inexperienced. I saw some chinese pro's go 1131 and caster godz said it wasnt standard anymore, but 1131 was more reliable for landing a combo or a single torrent. It grants you the possibility of a longer period with (almost) the same combotimings, this made playing kunka for me alot easier. If you can get away with skillbuilding the kunka in a more greedy manner, ofcourse thats nice. But that wasnt the initial question, the op guy just wanted to get kunka over with for the compendium goals  | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8947 Posts
3 lvls in x allows you to throw a boat and then cast a torrent and have all of them hit, provided you used x at max range the main difference between lvl 2 and lvl 3 is the range, which is what allows you to hit your boat or not. lvl 2 x range is too short so that even if they get hit by torrent your boat will still pass them | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On May 22 2014 22:16 govie wrote: ty laserist, seems godz was right. #kunka-scrub-build confirmed Well, Mushi did that build(leave x at 3) once, if you consider him a scrub | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8947 Posts
On May 22 2014 22:53 govie wrote: The boat and X is 3 seconds if you go 1131, it doesnt get any easier, you will allways land every combo. The difference between lvl2 and lvl3 is 2 or 3 seconds delay, making the combo not fullproof i think. the timing doesnt matter. if you throw boat right after x at lvl 3 and then cast torrent you will land all your spells at lvl 2 even if you threw your boat right after your torrent you would miss unless the guy ran backwards because the boat sitll travels too far | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
Mjollnir will override poison attack sure, but since poison attack only refreshes duration and mjollnir gives so much attack speed you should still obtain a constant debuff on your target anyways. The static charge is a bit odd for targets that are being debuffed in attack speed so much, but at the same time combined with corrosive skin you're talking about a lot of returned damage every time you are attacked. It just seems like the combination of attack speed and I suppose the biggest motivation is just if you're making Yasha already then clearly go manta or if you're going aghs it's too late to take advantage of Maelstorm's farming potential, but it seems that a hero like Viper shouldn't really be that dependent on Yasha anyways. It just seems interesting to me that Mjollnir seems to be pretty popular nowadays on heroes like Mirana, but I never see Vipers going for it. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
I can see AC being a more stable go to item over Mjollnir which makes sense. SNY also seems like it could be reasonable if you have an expectation of breaking it up for HH later on maybe? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
But its fine i'm not hating. Mjollnir is actually fine surprisingly because you are fine tossing it on urself and running in. Much like a WK, you punish them for focussing you while being unignorable. The right click stats are by and large underwhelming though as you aren't particularly aiming to become a right-click god as viper. On May 23 2014 00:18 Logo wrote: I can see AC being a more stable go to item over Mjollnir which makes sense. SNY also seems like it could be reasonable if you have an expectation of breaking it up for HH later on maybe? If u hit 6-slot on viper ur probably doing it wrong. Viper farms slowly and scales poorly so you want to abuse your retarded laning power and very effective midgame with mek and aghs timings. So disassembling SnY doesn't have to be part of ur plan to make the item fine. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Most of the time though, you simply aren't looking for itemization that is fully offensive stats at that point in the game. As far as Manta, it's more or less an item for sieging high ground. For most heroes this is the case, not just for Viper. On May 22 2014 23:58 Logo wrote: I suppose the biggest motivation is just if you're making Yasha already then clearly go manta or if you're going aghs it's too late to take advantage of Maelstorm's farming potential, but it seems that a hero like Viper shouldn't really be that dependent on Yasha anyways. It just seems interesting to me that Mjollnir seems to be pretty popular nowadays on heroes like Mirana, but I never see Vipers going for it. It's not really the same because Mirana can afford to have a purely damage item relatively early because she's a backline DPS hero by nature, and having a Maelstrom early is good because of it's balanced stats and farming power. Viper won't buy a pure damage item unless he's 100% sure that his defensive stats are adequate because by and large he's a frontline hero still. By the time he'd consider one, it's generally quite late and there are better lategame-focused damage item options, particularly as the buildup through Maelstrom is less of a factor when you're close to max slots. He also wouldn't want a "balanced" damage item because as I mentioned, typical mixed offense/defense items for him tend to be more attack speed heavy than damage heavy. On May 23 2014 00:15 Sn0_Man wrote: After mek -> aghs, viper's itemization isn't really "solved". Manta definitely sucks. Heart is probably best most of the time. Otherwise AC. You just want to tank up so that you can keep ur aids on their team as much as possible in fights. SnY might be better than I'm giving it credit for for general mobility and tankiness. That post is long enough that feederbolt will shortly tell u to take it to the viper thread lol. The thing that's awkward about S&Y is that the games that demand mobility for the most part required it of you well before your 3rd item, meaning you probably needed something like Phase+Drum early. At which point, it's not always the case that you need movement speed beyond that from S&Y. It takes a really weird game tempo for it to be the case that you didn't need MS for the first 20 minutes of the game and went Treads Meka Agha, then suddenly need MS in your 3rd item. Halberd itself is a fine item for Viper, there's not necessarily a need to go through S&Y first. | ||
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
On May 22 2014 13:05 Whole wrote: Why doesn't Weaver die? I believe there could be two reasons for this: One, Rubick is not moving. I believe the damage is applied as you move through another unit, not if another unit moves through you. If Rubick does not move, no damage can come from him. Two, Weaver activated shukuchi first. There is another video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmg_lHtAsw, that shows both rubick and weaver moving through eachother, but rubick activates his shukuchi first. This might give his shukuchi priority. I don't really have any means of testing this right now, but that's what comes to mind. | ||
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Archeon
3275 Posts
On May 23 2014 01:38 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote: I believe there could be two reasons for this: One, Rubick is not moving. I believe the damage is applied as you move through another unit, not if another unit moves through you. If Rubick does not move, no damage can come from him. Two, Weaver activated shukuchi first. There is another video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmg_lHtAsw, that shows both rubick and weaver moving through eachother, but rubick activates his shukuchi first. This might give his shukuchi priority. I don't really have any means of testing this right now, but that's what comes to mind. In the description of the video you posted is written that Rubick also wins when he shukuchis second, so i assume it's your first reason and Rubick has general priority over weaver in case both move. When should i buy a stick/wand on a ricing carry, or should i buy it at all (not including heroes like bristle, bat, or other heroes where the question during the laning stage is always yes or no)? especially the wand upgrade feels really underwhelming when i am jungle farming or split-pushing most of the time on heroes like am or pl. That being said i always miss it when i dont have it. Also when i am doing most of the support purchases i feel that i cant afford an early wand-upgrade (i often find it hard to purchase even a stick and boots while upping courier, buying wards, tp, mb smoke). Boots>wand upgrade? second set of wards>wand upgrade? I know that these are highly dependent on the game, but a rule of thumb would be helpful. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
@TheYango thanks for the explanation. I figured there was a good reason and intuitively you know Viper isn't a right click carry, but at the same time I just didn't see deep enough into all the reasoning to see why something like Manta would fair so much better than Mjollnir on the hero (which I now do). | ||
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RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
Also, you can steal a last hit or two if necessary. Sometimes that extra 90 gold makes all the difference. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On May 23 2014 01:38 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote: I believe there could be two reasons for this: One, Rubick is not moving. I believe the damage is applied as you move through another unit, not if another unit moves through you. If Rubick does not move, no damage can come from him. Two, Weaver activated shukuchi first. There is another video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmg_lHtAsw, that shows both rubick and weaver moving through eachother, but rubick activates his shukuchi first. This might give his shukuchi priority. I don't really have any means of testing this right now, but that's what comes to mind. In the video description of the video you linked, it said that "when Weaver shukuchis first, Rubick wins." But the video I linked had the description, "First to cast wins." So I guess it has to do something with movement? | ||
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Unattended Cake
United States877 Posts
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