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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 836

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8916 Posts
April 20 2014 14:57 GMT
#16701
depends on your heroes and your lead
if you dont have much of a lead and you dont have good base breaking heroes like bat or something, you wont get in.
at that point you have to make a choice. if your team has equally as good or better late game, then choke them and farm the whole map until you can fight later. if your team is weaker late game, you have to force a fight, ideally through a gank outside the base
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
April 20 2014 15:36 GMT
#16702
The one thing many people fail at is properly choking the other team's farm. A gem is crucial for this--you need full denial of the other team's vision, as well as aggressively placed wards of your own.
Moderator
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
April 20 2014 15:43 GMT
#16703
On April 21 2014 00:36 TheYango wrote:
The one thing many people fail at is properly choking the other team's farm. A gem is crucial for this--you need full denial of the other team's vision, as well as aggressively placed wards of your own.


i have a question that is semi-related. In a recent pro game some team ward blocked the enemies jungle camps 25+ minutes into the game. When is this a good strategy, if ever?
totalpigeon
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom162 Posts
April 20 2014 19:50 GMT
#16704
It can be effective against a farming carry with good escape potential like AM who in many circumstances can safely farm the jungle even if his team doesn't have excellent vision. However, while it may be safe for the carry to farm, it isn't necessarily as safe for a support to try and deward, meaning that you deny farm to the carry, force his team to deward together or have a good opportunity for a gank.

It can also be effective to keep down a carry with good flash farming capabilities like SF who will look to boost his income by quickly clearing stacked camps.

Against a team with too many carries who are all looking to selfishly farm for lategame warding the jungle will significantly cripple their item progression, and can be well worth the investment if you are a support on a more balanced team, as it will increase the length of the window you have where your team is stronger in fights.

Some simple maths - approx 560gpm from the jungle, 5 sentries to block every camp costs 500g. Assuming the other team has no gem, you break even at a minimum if they deward promptly and in a best case scenario cost them approx 1700 potential gold.
makmeatt
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
2024 Posts
April 20 2014 22:03 GMT
#16705
Are there any good resources to study Tinker from? Maybe some outstanding VoDs?
"Silver Edge can't break my hope" - Kryptt 2016 || "Chrono is not a debuff, you just get rekt" - Guru 2016
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
April 20 2014 22:26 GMT
#16706
On April 18 2014 05:25 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2014 05:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
On April 18 2014 05:01 Qbek wrote:
Wouldn't you get more mana on int if you had some +% mana reg items thou? I'm sure there is a point where it does, but is it above 50%?

No because the regen you get from INT scales at the same pace as the max mana you get from it.

Some guy mathcrafted it and its NEVER better for regen to be on int treads. Sometimes its the same, sometimes worse, never better.

PS: mana % regen items modify the base regen you get from int.

Well, it's better to be on Int treads to regen if you have flat +Mana from items/abilities, but the only way you get that is from Energy Booster or the Essence Aura passive. The former generally means you got Arcane Boots rather than Treads, and the latter is on a hero that has basically zero mana issues regardless.

Show nested quote +
On April 18 2014 05:21 Logo wrote:
Is there any level up considerations with treads? As in do you gain any benefit from being on AGI when leveling up then switching to STR/INT?

I actually can't really remember if DotA keeps your health and mana at it's current % when you level (I think it does?) in which cause the answer would be no.

In DotA 1, leveling up adds to your base Int/Str, which means you gain the corresponding amount of HP to your current AND maximum HP/mana, so leveling up on Agi then switching to Str/Int would give you slightly more HP/mana.

In DotA 2, there's no base/bonus stat distinction, so it preserves percentage regardless.

So when you're running around, it's better to be on agility?
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34504 Posts
April 20 2014 23:23 GMT
#16707
On April 21 2014 07:26 ahswtini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2014 05:25 TheYango wrote:
On April 18 2014 05:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
On April 18 2014 05:01 Qbek wrote:
Wouldn't you get more mana on int if you had some +% mana reg items thou? I'm sure there is a point where it does, but is it above 50%?

No because the regen you get from INT scales at the same pace as the max mana you get from it.

Some guy mathcrafted it and its NEVER better for regen to be on int treads. Sometimes its the same, sometimes worse, never better.

PS: mana % regen items modify the base regen you get from int.

Well, it's better to be on Int treads to regen if you have flat +Mana from items/abilities, but the only way you get that is from Energy Booster or the Essence Aura passive. The former generally means you got Arcane Boots rather than Treads, and the latter is on a hero that has basically zero mana issues regardless.

On April 18 2014 05:21 Logo wrote:
Is there any level up considerations with treads? As in do you gain any benefit from being on AGI when leveling up then switching to STR/INT?

I actually can't really remember if DotA keeps your health and mana at it's current % when you level (I think it does?) in which cause the answer would be no.

In DotA 1, leveling up adds to your base Int/Str, which means you gain the corresponding amount of HP to your current AND maximum HP/mana, so leveling up on Agi then switching to Str/Int would give you slightly more HP/mana.

In DotA 2, there's no base/bonus stat distinction, so it preserves percentage regardless.

So when you're running around, it's better to be on agility?

If there's absolutely no chance of you being jumped on, yes. I prefer running around in Strength just for safety though.
Moderator
LuckoftheIrish
Profile Joined November 2011
United States4791 Posts
April 20 2014 23:36 GMT
#16708
And of course make sure to stay in Int if that puts you over an important mana threshold that you wouldn't without it. Like 60 mana for Andymage or 150 if you have a Shadowblade.
On Twitter @GosuGamers_LotI | Grubby has a huge head!
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
April 20 2014 23:37 GMT
#16709
When I played offlane. I played against a trilane with a Void. He went midas, got it at 6 minutes. And he started making battlefurry. My Gyro carry went for HotD first item.

Shouldnt my team pressure void non stop when he is going items like this, and when playing vs Void in general? I feel I dont know what to do when my team is not trying to pressure him. (what can I do in this kind of situation?)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
April 20 2014 23:42 GMT
#16710
You do not necessarily need to gank the carry himself to disrupt his farm. Pushing towers, then warding/dewarding the enemy side of the map aggressively is also effective here. For a farming item to be effective, the carry has to have enough area on the map to farm for the farm difference to be relevant. If he can't farm his own jungle and can only farm lanes, the Battle Fury isn't necessarily accelerating his farm.

You can't just sit and let him farm, but it also doesn't mean that you have to focus on the Void. When a carry chooses to go all-out farming items the heroes that actually matter are the other 4 heroes that are trying to hold down the map while the Void farms. If you kill the Void, but let those heroes develop to the point where they can fight you, the Void is going to get farmed regardless.
Moderator
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
April 20 2014 23:58 GMT
#16711
yango tell me about an average game of dota for you
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
April 21 2014 00:06 GMT
#16712
On April 21 2014 08:42 TheYango wrote:
You do not necessarily need to gank the carry himself to disrupt his farm. Pushing towers, then warding/dewarding the enemy side of the map aggressively is also effective here. For a farming item to be effective, the carry has to have enough area on the map to farm for the farm difference to be relevant. If he can't farm his own jungle and can only farm lanes, the Battle Fury isn't necessarily accelerating his farm.

You can't just sit and let him farm, but it also doesn't mean that you have to focus on the Void. When a carry chooses to go all-out farming items the heroes that actually matter are the other 4 heroes that are trying to hold down the map while the Void farms. If you kill the Void, but let those heroes develop to the point where they can fight you, the Void is going to get farmed regardless.


Thanks
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 21 2014 00:58 GMT
#16713
is there something which prevents pipe stacking on a team?
I know there's a thing that prevents mek stacking, but I don't know about pipe.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
rebdomine
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
6040 Posts
April 21 2014 01:03 GMT
#16714
On April 21 2014 09:58 zlefin wrote:
is there something which prevents pipe stacking on a team?
I know there's a thing that prevents mek stacking, but I don't know about pipe.


The barrier active has the same thing that disallows mek stacking I think.
"Just because you are correct doesn't mean you are right!"
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
April 21 2014 01:05 GMT
#16715
do quelling blades really work on towers?
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8277 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-21 01:12:27
April 21 2014 01:09 GMT
#16716
On April 21 2014 09:58 zlefin wrote:
is there something which prevents pipe stacking on a team?
I know there's a thing that prevents mek stacking, but I don't know about pipe.


They don't stack in a sense, but you can turn on one as the other runs out, yes. There is nothing stopping you from having multiple mechs either, except you'll be wasting part of the item that gives you bonus armor, as well as mech being lesd useful as the game goes on due to its fixed healing. As such you'll usually be better off getting other items that let you control the enemy team. The same goes for a pipe. Its super useful for tanking some of their magic dmg..but what about the rightclick?

If the enemy team consisted of lion, lina, pugna, skywrath and tinker, I could easily see myself getting more than one pipe.

Edit: ignore me. Theres a 50 sec aura cd on pipe, and 25 sec on mech..even less reason to buy more than one
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
April 21 2014 01:25 GMT
#16717
I encountered this in a game I was playing. I was Veno and I had a Tiny teammate. Tiny gets nightmared by Atropos, I place down a Plague Ward, and attack Tiny with the Ward. Tiny goes out of nightmare but the nightmare didn't pass on to the ward. Now I'm not sure the nightmare was cancelled or it didn't pass around like it's supposed to. Do Plague Wards cancel nightmare when they attack the hero that's under its effect? Does the same go for other summoned units like Lycan's Wolves, Necro Minions, Enchantress Creeps, Eidolons, etc?
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
April 21 2014 01:31 GMT
#16718
On April 21 2014 10:09 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2014 09:58 zlefin wrote:
is there something which prevents pipe stacking on a team?
I know there's a thing that prevents mek stacking, but I don't know about pipe.


They don't stack in a sense, but you can turn on one as the other runs out, yes. There is nothing stopping you from having multiple mechs either, except you'll be wasting part of the item that gives you bonus armor, as well as mech being lesd useful as the game goes on due to its fixed healing. As such you'll usually be better off getting other items that let you control the enemy team. The same goes for a pipe. Its super useful for tanking some of their magic dmg..but what about the rightclick?

If the enemy team consisted of lion, lina, pugna, skywrath and tinker, I could easily see myself getting more than one pipe.

Edit: ignore me. Theres a 50 sec aura cd on pipe, and 25 sec on mech..even less reason to buy more than one

To be fair, since the mek stacking aura is 25s, and mek cooldown is 45s, you COULD get a second mek and time it correctly. Still, it's largely a waste of money buying an item that you can only use after ~30 seconds have elapsed in a fight.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-21 01:44:31
April 21 2014 01:33 GMT
#16719
On April 21 2014 10:25 SilverSkyLark wrote:
I encountered this in a game I was playing. I was Veno and I had a Tiny teammate. Tiny gets nightmared by Atropos, I place down a Plague Ward, and attack Tiny with the Ward. Tiny goes out of nightmare but the nightmare didn't pass on to the ward. Now I'm not sure the nightmare was cancelled or it didn't pass around like it's supposed to. Do Plague Wards cancel nightmare when they attack the hero that's under its effect? Does the same go for other summoned units like Lycan's Wolves, Necro Minions, Enchantress Creeps, Eidolons, etc?

Plague wards are magic immune. They will take the nightmare off the unit they attack, but because they are magic immune, the nightmare will not affect them. I also found a few days ago that if a unit with Linkens attacks a nightmared unit, it will remove the nightmare, and trigger the Linkens.
Those summoned units you mentioned are not, and so they will be put under the effect of nightmare.

I just did a test and recorded it:

"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-21 10:48:08
April 21 2014 10:45 GMT
#16720
Yango, can you tell me why does AA ult work on Visage's familiars? I had cognitive dissonance when it happened.
Guess, i need way more deeper understanding on mechanics to understand it.

On April 21 2014 10:05 Nevuk wrote:
do quelling blades really work on towers?


Nope, however quelling blade works on wards.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
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