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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
On December 09 2013 12:26 aintz wrote: answer for both question is, the stun is not removed and will last the full shackle duration. even if you get killed and buyback you will still be shackled. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
On December 09 2013 14:56 GtC wrote: Huskar's Life Break is magic damage though, yes? If you had a hood, would he deal less damage? Yes. | ||
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GtC
United States546 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On December 09 2013 15:17 Whole wrote: 1. Shadow Shaman has really low range (on spells and attack), so pros will abuse this by rushing him down to interrupt shackles and try to not let him to get Hex off. Also, the ultimate is bad sometimes if he places it in a spot where they can run from it. However, he is perfectly fine in pub matches where they don't abuse your weaknesses. 2. Your build is good, but I don't know how you can sustain mana without mana boots. If you can, good for you! If no one else is, and you're getting decent gold, get a Mekansm. Typically a hard support shouldn't, but in pubs, heroes with more farm don't get it unfortunately. Also, as a late item, I wouldn't get Rod of Atos. I just don't think it's good. Past the point of Wand, Boots, and Force Staff, don't go for a certain item. You need to see what item you need now. Sometimes it'll be a Eul's to trap them in wards (and sometimes you want that instead of Force Staff), sometimes you need a Heaven's Halberd, sometimes you really need Aghs to push their Rax, or sometimes you could get a Hand of Midas because you know the game will go super late (and get a Sheep). It all depends, but IMO, I would avoid Rod of Atos unless you specifically need it. Sounds logical when i think about #1 a little bit more  thx man! #2 I understand your arguments and i agree that the item you build after forcestaff should be game- and herobased ofcourse. I like a heavenshalbard, aghs, sheep or buffitems etcetc on many heros, even SS if need be. But, I do still like RoA in that line up of items for a intbased supports with not much farm. This because i would like to have a cheap bigger mana/hp-pool somehow and the luxury of an extra scaleable skill for a cheapprice (i like to call atos the aldi-rod or the kmart-cane). Like u stated, the range sux on SS and he is squishy, the rangebuff from a rod of mentos helps the team alot in picking off heros that would otherwise escape and keeps SS away from danger. Nighttime vision is so low in 6.79 (800 nightvision) and the range on atos is 1200. I think u could hit an enemy before they can ever see SS at nighttime. If u ward well, u can even slow them as an initiation accros the river or other obstacles without the use of forcestaff (with forcestaff the range becomes 2000). Its situational and skillbased if it works out well, but the hp and manapoolbuffs atleast help u survive and casts more of your other spells. Im not trying to convince u to use it often, but my experiences havent been the same on non farm heros with RoA and the more expensive items like your experiences i guess. | ||
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harodihg
Japan1344 Posts
On December 09 2013 16:49 GtC wrote: Does Whirling Death's -minus stat apply before the damage or after? Stat loss is first then damage | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On December 09 2013 22:58 lac29 wrote: Can someone give me the basic skill progression for a support Venge and a general reasoning for it? LaNm of team DK plays this hero sometimes and won last 4 games with it (dunno why he mixes his itembuilds up tho, maybe carrydependant, drums when having a str carry and non drums with a agi carry maybe?). promatchstats can be found here, goodluck and maybe someone can explain what and why he builds certain stuff : http://www.datdota.com/hero.php?q=Vengeful Spirit | ||
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njt7
Sweden769 Posts
The stun is your most important skill early and it scales good for early engagements where stun duration and magic damage output is key. Secondly your wave is your second magic damage dealing spell as well as having the minus armor for when your carries start dealing more physical damage is probably more effective in % damage output compared to aura. Your aura starts to become really awesome as your team starts to build up their base damage through levels and stat items. There is a couple of other viable options. The main ones is leaving stun at 1 and maxing your other two spells first or maxing stun and terror without getting the one point in aura. All of her skills are great and the first point in each skill gives more then any second point thats why I advocate the 1-1-1 build. But there is of course scenarios where 2-1 is better for example tri vs tri where it is really important to burst one of their heroes asap. | ||
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
On December 09 2013 23:33 govie wrote: LaNm of team DK plays this hero sometimes and won last 4 games with it (dunno why he mixes his itembuilds up tho, maybe carrydependant, drums when having a str carry and non drums with a agi carry maybe?). promatchstats can be found here, goodluck and maybe someone can explain what and why he builds certain stuff : http://www.datdota.com/hero.php?q=Vengeful Spirit Max stun first, take more points in wave for ganks and more points for aura if the game includes continuous fighting. Ult at 6, 11 and 16 I'd go something like: 1)Stun 2)Wave 3)Stun 4)Wave 5)Stun 6)Swap 7)Stun From there if you've ganked a few times and ahead of enemy laners, or at least supports max wave and snowball ahead. If your team wants to fight/push then (as in you have a carry that does not need to farm for 25 minutes) take points in aura. Generally you want to avoid aura during the laning phase as that will also affect your creeps and the lane starts pushing. | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
On December 10 2013 00:52 lac29 wrote: Thanks for the into on VS! Just to be clear it doesn't really matter damage wise if I stun first then terror wave vs terror wave and then stun right? Because the armor reduction only applies to physical damage and not magical damage? Yep, your right about that. Wave won't increase stun damage. | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
On December 09 2013 23:51 njt7 wrote: Not sure how the pros do it now days but I think going 1-1-1 into 4-1-1-1 into 4-4-1-2 is best in most scenarios. Then obviously maxing aura as well. The stun is your most important skill early and it scales good for early engagements where stun duration and magic damage output is key. Secondly your wave is your second magic damage dealing spell as well as having the minus armor for when your carries start dealing more physical damage is probably more effective in % damage output compared to aura. Your aura starts to become really awesome as your team starts to build up their base damage through levels and stat items. There is a couple of other viable options. The main ones is leaving stun at 1 and maxing your other two spells first or maxing stun and terror without getting the one point in aura. All of her skills are great and the first point in each skill gives more then any second point thats why I advocate the 1-1-1 build. But there is of course scenarios where 2-1 is better for example tri vs tri where it is really important to burst one of their heroes asap. There's virtually no scenario where you want 1-1-1 over 2-1. If you are roaming you want the greater burst damage from the 2nd rank stun. If you are in lane in any way, +12% damage to all creeps will auto-push your lane. You generally get the 1st rank of aura when laning breaks down or when you're going to push a T1, since at that point you want the pushing power and not lane control. On December 09 2013 23:54 Oukka wrote: Max stun first, take more points in wave for ganks and more points for aura if the game includes continuous fighting. Ult at 6, 11 and 16 Wave is better for fighting than aura in midgame. -1 armor and +8% damage are roughly equivalent at low armor values, and Wave has longer range, added damage, and, very importantly, the debuff persists after you die (and has a rather long duration) while the aura effect drops immediately (important given the hero's tendency to put herself into the fray either to initiate or to save someone). The primary benefit of more aura ranks is for further pushing power since Wave doesn't affect towers, or if you really need to get those aura ranks up for lategame but you're underleveled. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + IFF = If and only If. In formal logic speak | ||
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
(i'm not really serious this thought just popped into my head) | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
On December 10 2013 03:06 Sn0_Man wrote: 1-1-1 on venge is legit IFF you are playing an aura stacking early push lineup and are on your way to 1-1-4-1. + Show Spoiler + IFF = If and only If. In formal logic speak Well yes, but if that's the case you generally should hit the second condition I mentioned (breaking T1s) right around when you're level 3 anyway with something like Chen or Enchantress. On December 10 2013 03:07 Slardar wrote: Thoughts on Sniper middle vs OD? You'll eventually soak up enough XP to drastically outrange OD and just keep whittling him down with auto/ministun harass. It's the same as a couple other lanes. It's fine if you can stay in the lane long enough for your range advantage to really pick up, but if he has a better block and plays aggressive enough it's just difficult because his level 1 stats are so much better than yours that it's hard for you to comfortably get in position to control the lane in any way. | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
So while your 2nd condition is certainly being met, I was trying to make it more specific. Just hitting a tower isn't enough justification to waste that 3rd point imo, you have to want the aura max and have an overall push lineup. | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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