EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 710
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Unlike the other jungle carries like doom/lifestealer/etc who take for-freaking-ever to be useful, jungle Lycan comes partially online at like 7:00 and fully online before 12:00. That's early enough that the other team is rarely able to capitalise on the 5v4, and the power spike he gets from smoke-into-rosh is massive and perfectly timed to snowball the advantage back. Plus, his most vulnerable point is so early (like the 2-3 minute mark) that almost nobody exploits it. Even if they do, they might gank him a couple times and then go do something else as other lanes start crying for help. Lycan then crawls to his vlads and his ult, and suddenly he's jungling like crazy and can just sprint away from anything you try later. A little bit longer and he's a constant threat to rosh as well as every tower ever. Speaking of which, the first smoke-into-rosh is also pretty easy in pubs unless one of Lycan's teammates goes "hurr durr us do rosh" and follows him in unsmoked. I'm sure I'm just bad and playing with bads, but I'm getting totally silly winrates with him so far. | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
The other thing is that Lycan is not just a pushing carry. Lycan's Vlads+BKB teamfight timing is one of the most powerful surges in power off a single item on any hero in the game. The number of carries in the game that can actually man-fight Lycan reasonably throughout the game can be counted on one hand. His problem is that its hard to stay on targets lategame with Force Staves, Ghost Scepter, and lower BKB durations, but you can outright win the game with his 10s-7s BKB usages (when supports don't have those items yet), and don't always have to resort to split-pushing. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
 I wanted him as support because his spells are also good like the veno/cm supportspells (my other two fav supports). I buy coerier, wards and the whole lot from the start and deny gold for enemy constantly+harras heros and at lvl 6+tq-boot push a tower and transition from there (B.O wand, tq boots, forcestaff, if possible mid/lategame rod of mentos). Goal of my build is to get a strong carry, there heros a little bit weaker, utilize certain timings to get some easy gold for the team earlier then normal and help in teamfights, chasing and defending.As u can see its a cheap build (like most maidenbuilds) and it has worked well for me so far as SS doesnt seem to need items to play well. 2 skills scale well, ult is a longtimer siege/zonecontrol. The atos rod skill also scales well into lategame and gives more mana, more HP (he is squishy). Mentos comes online earlier then a aghs (1200 gold is alot for a support) and gives less damage output, but more versatility to SS. He can setup kills, the range is long (no one expects it, certainly not with a forcestaffcombo) and cooldown very short its just ridiculous (=read op). The money i get after TQ boots can go directly into a bigger manapool (biggest problem) and some hp (2nd biggest problem). Manaregen is not a real issue because i need to get wards/dust etc anyway, which means i can tp to base and fountain my manapool. So, in general im pretty happy experimenting and tinkering the build so far. Now for my 2 questions : 1. I ask myself why better skilled supportplayers dont play sjaman as a support like a cm or a veno in promatches? What are they seeing/experiencing what i dont feel or see? Its not like this itembuild is too expensive or hits to late and I have mana enough to be usefull. What am i not seeing or dont want to see? 2. Anyone else have some advice on some items that could even work better for less money (not manaboots)? I really like the SS support, im designing the new prostrats of the future, haha | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On December 09 2013 05:00 Gotuso wrote: Is jungle Lycan still a thing? I tried it yesterday without knowing how to do it and it felt really slow. Like, Crystal Maiden jungles faster. Should I just lane Lycan? And is so, should I still get Vlads first? It's worth pointing out that early-game Lycan doesn't aim to jungle indefinitely. He's a jungler with a clear progression; he wants item A at timing B, which gives him just enough sustain to reach item C at timing D. With that in mind, he burns hp/mana as he goes and can need to use consumables/go back to base. He jungles mega-slowly if you try to keep him safe, but if you micro the wolves and don't hesitate to trade hp for gold, he's not much worse than before. Until they gank you, of course. There's a few specific ways to jungle him. My preference is below: (this got a lot bigger than I intended but anyway) Start: tango, stout, RoP, clarity Skill: Q-E-Q-(W/E)-Q-R-Q Items: RoB, RoH, morbid, vlads ( sobi, medallion ) The idea is that most of your damage comes from the wolves, so you skip quelling to tank lycan up, and delay lifesteal in favour of the mana regen from basi. > Wait in fountain till 0:03 > Spawn wolves and wait another second or so until your mana refills > Walk to the closest medium camp, you should get there right on 0:30. Be careful not to block the spawn. > Clear it. Your wolves should expire a little before the camp dies. Resummon them if necessary, otherwise wait till the next camp. Don't worry about missing the camp respawn. Notes on medium camps: + Show Spoiler + Satyrs: ez ez Golems: fine Wolves: alright Ogres: alright Centaurs: rough For centaurs: Attack with lycan + 1 wolf so they don't stomp, or make sure lycan is tanking when you begin the camp so your wolves don't die while stunned. This also works for ursas in the hard camp. For wolves: kill the alpha straightaway, tanking with lycan. It hurts, but they also die very quickly. Be careful tanking with your own wolves, because if you get unlucky with crits you can lose them from like 3/4 health. Also see random tips below. > Go to the other medium camp, resummon your wolves and clear it. Eat tangos as necessary. > Pop a clarity and wait till both mediums respawn > Resummon and clear them again. (it can be tough to get to both camps in time as Radiant, so you can clear the pull if your safelane doesn't need it, or try the hard camp instead) At this point you should have cleared 4 camps before 3:00, be level 3 and have enough gold to finish RoB plus an RoH. Congratulations, the worst is over. Now you can: >Walk back to base to heal and pick your stuff up >Courier it to you with a salve/clarity as needed >Suicide to a hard camp for a free trip back to base (If you do go back to fountain, summon your wolves before you leave again to maximize your mana) Now you're on your way. Keep cycling the mediums, and start adding hard camps into your rotations if they're good spawns. You should have enough mana for two-to-three wolf summons, which should get you to your morbid mask and vlads recipe. Keep an eye on Lycan's health. This part is easier, but you can still run into trouble without lifesteal. Make sure to use your wolves' HP, and cour/sideshop the morbid mask if needed earlier. Notes on hard camps: + Show Spoiler + Satyrs: good Trolls: good Wildkin: rough Centaurs: rough Ursas: awhellnaw You should be able to do satyrs and trolls without much trouble from level 3. You can try them at level 1 if you're really desperate, but I wouldn't recommend it. Wildkin and cents are possible from 3, easy from 5. Ursas I would avoid until level 5 at least. Once you have vlads, the jungle should quake in fear. You want it between 6:30 and 7:30 depending on camps and ganks. You should now be able to do any camp you like, and clear 3+ camps a minute easily. You will still have some mana problems, but Lycan can solo lifesteal his way through a camp or two just fine if you're dry. Random tips: > Do everything you can to keep your wolves from dying before they expire. Use them to tank a hit or two, and then micro them back to de-aggro and tank the rest with Lycan's face. Try not to let them get so low that they will die to one hit; creeps will sometimes re-aggro on them for no apparent reason, so it's very easy to lose them by accident. > Your wolf cd is much shorter than their duration, so if you find yourself high on mana but low on health you can let the current set tank and die, and then resummon them to save Lycan a bit of pain. > If you're very close to a wolf level-up (3,5,7), try to get the level before you summon them. They become much stronger. > Take your ult at 6, but save it to escape from ganks. Note the 100 manacost, which is quite steep at this stage. Save for it if you think you'll get into trouble. After vlads, sobi mask into medallion is still ideal for a rosh attempt. Keep running camps with vlads, and once you have enough for medallion get yourself a smoke and full hp/mana as well (either via fountain, lifesteal or consumables). Clarity up, pop the smoke and go rosh. You should be heading out between 10:00 and 11:00. Notes on rosh: + Show Spoiler + Aim to enter the pit with two wolves up, Q and R off cooldown and bars near full. Do: Cycle tanking rosh with your wolves and Lycan, using lifesteal to heal the units that aren't tanking. Keep medallion off cooldown unless you have no wolves for some reason. Watch the minimap. It's better to abort than to get ganked and give them rosh in the process. Save your ult to finish quickly or escape. Don't: Let the wolves die without a resummon. This means backing them around 1/2 hp in case they get bashed. Use howl. It announces what you're doing. Spawn wolves on the right hand side so they appear on the cliff (....that was a bad day) Let anything leave the pit; if they have a ward there they will see you. Once you have the aegis, get some treads and go raise hell. You should be the scariest thing on the map at this point, and the aegis should get you a couple of towers and a good number of kills unless your lanes went 0-15 without you. I'm open to suggestions if anyone else knows better, of course. | ||
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Yagami
2 Posts
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GtC
United States546 Posts
unless your lanes went 0-15 without you. That's always the worst realization to have in a game. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
This is really one of the reasons I'm suddenly in love with Lycan. The peak he gets from aegis comes early enough and hits hard enough that he can almost singlehandedly reverse lost lanes. Not quite 0-15, but 0-5 np. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On December 04 2013 06:26 Sn0_Man wrote: Sheep is sheep it needs no justification. Its absolutely NOT a "regen based" item its a castable hex. It just so happens to also be an amazing farm (aka regen) item since necrolyte can chew through mana at an incredible rate even with max sadist. BKB is because all you need is to survive and BKB is one of the best survivability items in the game. There are arguments for pipe since necrolyte doesn't REALLY need to avoid being stunned etc (since all you need is to be able to cast your spells intermittently) but any kind of silence wrecks you and due to necro's awful mobility, avoiding slows/stuns is key to keeping your heal bomb and aura hitting as many targets as possible. Heart is simply the best tank item in the game, non negotiable. Shivas is amazing, its a bunch of survivability as well as a nice nuke and it provides another incredibly obnoxious aura for your enemies to deal with, cementing your teamfight presence. Plus mana pool never hurts on a hero whose ult is like 500 mana. Travs are travs. Best mobility, part of essentially ever "6-slot" build. The spare slot goes to one of: Refresher: when you need to ult 2 different people really badly. Bonus is that it refreshes sheep and shivas both of which are awesome. E-Blade: when you need a ghost sceptre for survivability, when you need to be able to ghost sceptre an enemy carry or an ally, and especially when you need to be able to 1v1 enemy heroes (Sheep -> hit hit hit -> eblade + shivas + death pulse -> ult = GG practically anybody). Ignore the Agi part, it is simply a way to win any 1v1 fight ever, plus utility for physical immunity for allies/self and disarm enemies. Aghs: well duh. When there is 1 enemy core that you care about, and nothing else. Period. Everything else is shit tier. In game guides are coincidentally universally shit tier. And besides, in game guides really don't have anything to do with 6-slot theory crafting. Please note that i'm 6-slot theory crafting here, not necessarily advocating a smooth build-up build that would work in a game. Items like Bloodstone are bad but have situational uses where you need 1 item that both tanks up and fixes your mana regen. Its a timing push kind of item since you don't need that much regen in general but right when bloodstone hits you are tanky and can fight almost forever so you can push with it. AC is bad forget anybody who ever suggests it you don't do any phys dmg. Mek is core but you sell it when you hit 6slot. Drums are fun and can be good but you sell them when you hit 6slot. Force is core for sure but again I think you often sell it once your teammates can provide. Blink is the same as force but more situational. Euls is situationally OK as a mana regen item with some niche use but its simply not good enough. Atos is quite reasonable except you have to be using the active on enemy heroes, which implies teamfights, which is not where atos is good. Not a 6slot item regardless. Just wanted to let you know, I played a game just now as Necro, went super late, was able to out carry a bloodseeker and bounty and take any of them 1v1 with the item build you gave. The game was also super close, like within 5 kills. I finished 18-5-25 I still think bloodstone is the way to go, given the obvious benefits to health, regen, and lower death time. But my stack was Mech, Bloodstone, Shivas, Etheral, Phase boots, and half way to heart. I was basically unkillable in any 1v1 situation, and a couple of 2v1 situations i came out on top. Bloodseeker, natures prophet, bounty hunter all kept trying to gank me 1v1 while i was pushing a lane and I just crushed them. (although the natures was, Level 5 dagon, mjlolinar treads, deso manta, which is kinda bad because he will only have 1200 HP like that. ) Anyway, just wanted to let you know the circumstance and thank you for your help, improved my game alot. I would have probably gone Bloodstone, linkens, shivas, Radiance, before. LOL | ||
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Tuco
China200 Posts
1. If you shackle a hero to a creep and the creep dies after, is the stun removed on the hero? 2. If you shackle a hero to a tree and the tree is destroyed afterwards, is the stun removed? | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On December 09 2013 11:22 Yagami wrote: can someone enlighten me about necrolyte/phos aura ? i find it rather useless. it deals 1.5% per second which means about 66.7 second to kill someone. p/s im new to dota It's not great to level up in lane because your wave will naturally push up, but in fights the damage adds up. Over a long, drawn-out engagement (which is what necrolyte wants), you could potentially deal 30-40% of EVERYONE's health in magic damage. | ||
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GtC
United States546 Posts
On December 09 2013 12:47 synapse wrote: It's not great to level up in lane because your wave will naturally push up, but in fights the damage adds up. Over a long, drawn-out engagement (which is what necrolyte wants), you could potentially deal 30-40% of EVERYONE's health in magic damage. If you deal percentage-based magic damage, is it reduced by magic resistance? | ||
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
On December 09 2013 12:53 GtC wrote: If you deal percentage-based magic damage, is it reduced by magic resistance? Necro's aura is not magic damage, it's HP removal, so it's not affected by magic resistance. | ||
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JumboJohnson
537 Posts
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
Is it just a combination of his mana problems, being forced to push, and lack of mobility? | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On December 09 2013 13:42 NotYango wrote: Necro's aura is not magic damage, it's HP removal, so it's not affected by magic resistance. ah yeah thats what i meant to say | ||
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GtC
United States546 Posts
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On December 09 2013 10:56 govie wrote: 1. I ask myself why better skilled supportplayers dont play sjaman as a support like a cm or a veno in promatches? What are they seeing/experiencing what i dont feel or see? Its not like this itembuild is too expensive or hits to late and I have mana enough to be usefull. What am i not seeing or dont want to see? 2. Anyone else have some advice on some items that could even work better for less money (not manaboots)? I really like the SS support, im designing the new prostrats of the future, haha 1. Shadow Shaman has really low range (on spells and attack), so pros will abuse this by rushing him down to interrupt shackles and try to not let him to get Hex off. Also, the ultimate is bad sometimes if he places it in a spot where they can run from it. However, he is perfectly fine in pub matches where they don't abuse your weaknesses. 2. Your build is good, but I don't know how you can sustain mana without mana boots. If you can, good for you! If no one else is, and you're getting decent gold, get a Mekansm. Typically a hard support shouldn't, but in pubs, heroes with more farm don't get it unfortunately. Also, as a late item, I wouldn't get Rod of Atos. I just don't think it's good. Past the point of Wand, Boots, and Force Staff, don't go for a certain item. You need to see what item you need now. Sometimes it'll be a Eul's to trap them in wards (and sometimes you want that instead of Force Staff), sometimes you need a Heaven's Halberd, sometimes you really need Aghs to push their Rax, or sometimes you could get a Hand of Midas because you know the game will go super late (and get a Sheep). It all depends, but IMO, I would avoid Rod of Atos unless you specifically need it. | ||
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