EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 713
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
On December 11 2013 01:20 Sn0_Man wrote: Consider medallion over urn. Yes urn is "more hp" but its not even close to enough to make weaver anything but squishy so it's value is limited in that sense. The damage you gain from it is wayyyyy lower than medallion as well. Medallion only catches up to Urn damage midgame, on your next major damage item (e.g. Deso). Off baseline physical damage dealt typically early game, Urn is more damage. Also, the major advantage of Urn on a hero like Weaver with such smooth disengaging/re-engaging power is that with Urn you can eat some damage, disengage with ~1/2 HP, urn yourself, then re-engage on full HP again. For a hero like Weaver who cleans up at the end of fights so well, and who can get in and out of fights so easily this is a huge plus. On December 11 2013 00:56 Oukka wrote: Sure you could go for the Yango-build of Urn, Phase and Drums.. :D (Plz don't, it's not good for weaver) Phase and Drums are bad, but Urn has been a staple of Chinese pub Weaver play for a long time now. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8915 Posts
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
If you want mana for weaver just go for a bottle or a wand/aquilla. Don't ever get % regen on it unless it's perseverance | ||
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RoyGBiv_13
United States1275 Posts
On December 11 2013 01:55 DW-Unrec wrote: urn on weaver is bad because she doesn't have any intelligence to regenerate 50% off of, you're basically paying 1000 gold just for the heal. Weaver needs mana and damage, followed by hp and possibly armor and mana regen. If you want mana for weaver just go for a bottle or a wand/aquilla. Don't ever get % regen on it unless it's perseverance Ever played weaver, then got chain stunned and died before you could wand and shukuchi away? At level 6, she has 578 HP. An average point-click nuke at level 3 does 250 dmg (magic missle, eg), so three nukes does roughly 750 damage, or 563 damage after magic resistance. Leaving weaver susceptible to one or two right clicks to death. Each three points in strength gives 57 HP, so two gauntlets gets you 114 HP, about another two auto attacks worth of health. This, as it turns out, is the magic number for weaver to survive a three-man gank: 692 HP with just the urn, and 749 with the wand as well. The urn acts as a ramp to safely farm, even during a three man gank. Also, this is why it's so very important to always be full HP on her when farming in a lane. Additionally, you noted that weaver had a low int stat so 50% wouldn't affect it that much. Weaver has a base mana regen rate at level 6 of 1.1. The mask boosts that to 1.7, which in turn gives her an extra shukuchi each 100 seconds, which isn't bad for a 325 cost item. The rest of the cost of the item goes towards a heal, which [not]Yango explained the utility of earlier. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On December 11 2013 05:11 RoyGBiv_13 wrote: Ever played weaver, then got chain stunned and died before you could wand and shukuchi away? At level 6, she has 578 HP. An average point-click nuke at level 3 does 250 dmg (magic missle, eg), so three nukes does roughly 750 damage, or 563 damage after magic resistance. Leaving weaver susceptible to one or two right clicks to death. Each three points in strength gives 57 HP, so two gauntlets gets you 114 HP, about another two auto attacks worth of health. This, as it turns out, is the magic number for weaver to survive a three-man gank: 692 HP with just the urn, and 749 with the wand as well. The urn acts as a ramp to safely farm, even during a three man gank. Also, this is why it's so very important to always be full HP on her when farming in a lane. Additionally, you noted that weaver had a low int stat so 50% wouldn't affect it that much. Weaver has a base mana regen rate at level 6 of 1.1. The mask boosts that to 1.7, which in turn gives her an extra shukuchi each 100 seconds, which isn't bad for a 325 cost item. The rest of the cost of the item goes towards a heal, which [not]Yango explained the utility of earlier. You have a point on hp, but then just by a i.e. wand+2 gg branches or that 1k ring aquila (both 1k or less, also stats, also mana). But u can ask yourself the question if every squishy hero on your team should urn or that ganks can be prevented by communication and saving the money for better stuff. The weaver doesnt fully benefit from all the charactistics of the urn, like other heros do. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On December 10 2013 20:45 SilverSkyLark wrote: I randomed Drow and safelaned with CM, we were up against Weaver and Riki. I hate it that Riki can just blink smoke while Weaver joins the fun and they both rip me a new one. It also does not help that my CM partner pulled since I'd get jumped almost immediately. Also, I hate it how they can just tower dive with just half a wave of creeps and still net kills, it's really annoying and it stalled my farm. Any ideas on how to deal with this kind of situation? I tried to play it safe/tower hug, that didn't work. I tried to free farm lanes and play it safe (e.g. teleporting out when I see enemies head my way via wards) but even then, I had to settle with brown boots and 2 wraith bands because I had to go to get my Shadow Blade. I also didn't join teamfights when I would see my teammates taking down towers (cuz they pretty much managed with minimal losses anyway) and I'd farm and push another lane. And whenever I'd get into teamfights (cuz my team pushes with me and enemy decides to def), I'd still get focused down by the enemy team (silence didn't help much). We'd still win the teamfights but my items gets stalled, at it makes me less relevant in teamfights. Obviously, the situation should not occur as you don't want to dual lane with drow/cm (both squishy). A Riki/Weaver dual lane makes no sense, and if you had a second support in a trilane you could easily just keep them out of farm range while you last hit safely. Since you cannot control your allies, all you can do is stay behind the tower. You could possibly go for a bracer or belt (into treads) for more health. Deny your creeps to the small camp if possible, and even focus on denies over last hits. If you are 1v2 in lane then your opponents are hurting for levels, and if you hit 5 when they are both still 4 then you could possibly get a kill or two (send out wards/dust in advance). The other thing to consider is that they are very killable at level 2. Make sure to take silence instead of aura and hope the CM takes nova and stun. A stun into silence should kill either of them at level 2. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
His E skill is pretty spammable with a bottle, and can be used to push the lane if you want runes. There is some kill potential there with his Q if a support comes in to help. His base damage is average, but scales well with levels (50+3). He has a good health pool and decent movement speed. Potentially, you could put a point in his passive to give you a chance to avoid incoming ganks. As a mid, you will obviously have your ulti early, so if you pick up a haste rune you could easily rotate for a kill. Also, you should be able to get arcane boots and blink much faster than a support tidehunter. What are the big flaws? Simply that some other heroes do the same thing but better? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Basically you get a fast 6, then you do something with that, then for long stretches of time you have this tide whom you invested a lot of exp and farm into who does almost nothing because ravage is on CD. Then other people get BKB and you still have this "core" tidehunter who is borderline useless and could achieve the exact same thing with no farm. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8277 Posts
On December 12 2013 00:28 hzflank wrote: Random thought from a newbie: why is Tidehunter never used in mid? His E skill is pretty spammable with a bottle, and can be used to push the lane if you want runes. There is some kill potential there with his Q if a support comes in to help. His base damage is average, but scales well with levels (50+3). He has a good health pool and decent movement speed. Potentially, you could put a point in his passive to give you a chance to avoid incoming ganks. As a mid, you will obviously have your ulti early, so if you pick up a haste rune you could easily rotate for a kill. Also, you should be able to get arcane boots and blink much faster than a support tidehunter. What are the big flaws? Simply that some other heroes do the same thing but better? What exactly do you want to use him for? His thing is is big ulti. His Q and W doesn't even get close to justifying him going mid. All you get with a mid tidehunter is a hero with no farm (other mids are going to absolutely crush you), and a little bit more xp..which you don't particularly need. Sure you get lvl 6 a bit faster..then what? You gank once and now its a on a 150 sec cooldown. Meanwhile the opposite mid player is going to have the time of his life with freefarm, all the runes, and infinite ganking potential in all lanes due to you not even being a slight threat to him. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8277 Posts
On December 12 2013 00:36 Logo wrote: I think he ends up edged out by some of the stronger mids and he's not particularly item or level dependent so the farm goes to waste a bit. It's a possibility in some situations, but when it's possible I think you'd usually see Timber or Clockwerk end up mid instead. If you're in a pub you can certainly do it, I've seen it and I've even seen solo offlane Tidehunter work well, but I don't think it's something you'll see all that often. Solo offlane tidehunter I like a lot more. If the opponent defensive trilane isn't very gank heavy you can get away with it, and you'll get that extra xp for early ulti without gimping the rest of your team. + the money you wont be getting is money no hero would be able to get, and you happen to not need it anyways. It is really situational though. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
Also, compare him to a dragonknight. Tide has more damage and his passive is probably just as good at rank 1. His aoe is better for lane control (although worse for killing). He might not be as tanky as a DK later, but in lane he should be just as good, and we see DK not lose the lane badly in mid. Sure, he would lose to an OD and some others, but there are many matchups that I don;t think he would lose in. I think there is some potential there if you are running a really hard carry and need to survive a couple of 4v5 fights. | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
-running "utility" mid, especially one that gets countered by bkb means your other cores need to have a successful game -you cant pressure ranged mids in anyway | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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