EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 714
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On December 12 2013 00:39 hzflank wrote: Why does he lose the lane so badly? I believe he only has 5 less base damage than a timbersaw, and tide scales better as he levels. His passive is better than a stout shield (you could spare 1 point at level 2) and his aoe is probably better in mid than a timbersaw. Also, compare him to a dragonknight. Tide has more damage and his passive is probably just as good at rank 1. His aoe is better for lane control (although worse for killing). He might not be as tanky as a DK later, but in lane he should be just as good, and we see DK not lose the lane badly in mid. Sure, he would lose to an OD and some others, but there are many matchups that I don;t think he would lose in. I think there is some potential there if you are running a really hard carry and need to survive a couple of 4v5 fights. Timber's passive means he can take ranged harass early on and shrug it off long term. Every charge of reactive armor regenerates 16hp for Timber in addition to the bonus armor. The 16hp heals post armor damage. Tide's damage reduction is less or comparable (9 and 18 at levels 1 and 2) and is blocking/reducing pre-armor damage. On top of that only one damage block applies at a time so Timber's passive stacks a lot better with stout shield. Vs timber a ranged attack has a 60% chance to do -20 damage and heal timber for 16 damage combined with armor reductions a ranged attack can deal 0 or less than 0 damage. Timber can also do cute things like aggro creeps for regen stacks. FWIW pre 6.79 it was even worse for Tide as kraken shell blocked significantly less (7/14). DK mids well with bottle crowing breathe fire (which has a longer range than anchor smash) in combination with a strong passive that will heal ranged damage over time. Even if a ranged hero can zone him out he can't zone out the breathe fire. | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
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NotYango
United States719 Posts
On December 12 2013 00:32 Sn0_Man wrote: Tidehunter is a fine mid and teams ran him there from time to time but he lacks the ability to really dictate the flow of the game the way say a Beastmaster can with fast ulti since ravage has a super long CD, and he doesn't scale with farm after a few basic items the way certain other passive mids do. Plus getting a haste rune is less of an easy gank with him than with many other mids. Basically you get a fast 6, then you do something with that, then for long stretches of time you have this tide whom you invested a lot of exp and farm into who does almost nothing because ravage is on CD. Then other people get BKB and you still have this "core" tidehunter who is borderline useless and could achieve the exact same thing with no farm. This is exactly right. Everyone else trying to talk about how good or bad he is in lane are overcomplicating things. In lane he's the exact same stalemate-fest as any other Bottle-crow mid. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On December 12 2013 00:32 Sn0_Man wrote: Tidehunter is a fine mid and teams ran him there from time to time but he lacks the ability to really dictate the flow of the game the way say a Beastmaster can with fast ulti since ravage has a super long CD, and he doesn't scale with farm after a few basic items the way certain other passive mids do. Plus getting a haste rune is less of an easy gank with him than with many other mids. Basically you get a fast 6, then you do something with that, then for long stretches of time you have this tide whom you invested a lot of exp and farm into who does almost nothing because ravage is on CD. Then other people get BKB and you still have this "core" tidehunter who is borderline useless and could achieve the exact same thing with no farm. followup question  I wonder if treebeard ever will go mid until lvl 6 atleast (i cant but im sure experienced players could). He can easy lasthit, can heal himself and structures so it changes timings all together and maybe some else wants to bottlecrow who needs more mana. Midas suits him fine because he is so freakin tanky. The first couple of levels he just doesnt die. I find him powerfull in a disjointed kind of way. Most his spells do not damage at all, but he can initiate early without a blinkdagger and can do that every 70 seconds. If your lanes are powerfull enough u could get a couple of ganks every 70 seconds thx to Q+R. He lasthits like a boss and can repair towers and stuff. As could maybe transition into a utilityhero and more tankyhero. I like treebeard. | ||
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njt7
Sweden769 Posts
Edit: Im so slow. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On December 12 2013 01:07 govie wrote: followup question I wonder if treebeard ever will go mid until lvl 6 atleast (i cant but im sure experienced players could). He can easy lasthit, can heal himself and structures so it changes timings all together and maybe some else wants to bottlecrow who needs more mana. Midas suits him fine because he is so freakin tanky. The first couple of levels he just doesnt die. I find him powerfull in a disjointed kind of way. Most his spells do not damage at all, but he can initiate early without a blinkdagger and can do that every 70 seconds. If your lanes are powerfull enough u could get a couple of ganks every 70 seconds thx to Q+R. He lasthits like a boss and can repair towers and stuff. As could maybe transition into a utilityhero and more tankyhero. I like treebeard. Isn't that sort of the same situation as tide generally? Why mid, the gold is just sort of going to waste and even if you want the faster level 6 wouldn't it be better to do it via 2-1-2 or offlaning the tree? Plus that way living armor is available to help win another lane. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On December 12 2013 01:21 Logo wrote: Isn't that sort of the same situation as tide generally? Why mid, the gold is just sort of going to waste and even if you want the faster level 6 wouldn't it be better to do it via 2-1-2 or offlaning the tree? Plus that way living armor is available to help win another lane. The ult CD of tide is +/- double then on Treebeard and treebeard doesnt need forcestaff/blinkdagger to initiate. Meaning he can initiate ganks after lvl6 were tide would struggle. I ment using invis+ult or ofcourse the damagespell to initiate and gank multiple targets after lvl6. | ||
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Juice!
Belgium295 Posts
I wonder, are the "read this guide if you are are new" (Guide 1, Guide 2 and Guide 3) still valid? Also, comming from a league background (i know :/) i mainly did jungle .. i played a few games with enchantress and enigma, are there any other good jungle heroes? Thanks! | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
That means that patches that change things are more about opening new possibilities, but the old ones should still be there. Guides to playing dota are 100% still valid because they teach you about dota not about specific actions in dota. So learning to jungle isn't about "figuring out the exact start items and the jungle rotation that is most efficient" but rather figuring out why you are in the jungle, what it is gaining your team and what it is costing them, and how to abuse the unique advantages your hero has from jungling to get ahead. Obviously farming more efficiently is a way to do that but its important to consider when you need to smoke mid or when you need to stack for your carry instead of killing a camp. There are certainly a lot of mechanics to learn about too (such as stacking jungle camps) but those haven't changed much recently. Even the fact that the jungle camps moved around isn't enough to invalidate old guides, you just have to use your brain a bit. Other good junglers include Chen and Crystal Maiden although CM is very much a hybrid where you resort to the jungle for farm once you aren't needed in lane. Dark seer can jungle but is a very advanced hero. Nature's prophet is a good jungler as well, with a pretty unique and fun (for you) skill set. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On December 12 2013 00:32 Sn0_Man wrote: Tidehunter is a fine mid and teams ran him there from time to time but he lacks the ability to really dictate the flow of the game the way say a Beastmaster can with fast ulti since ravage has a super long CD, and he doesn't scale with farm after a few basic items the way certain other passive mids do. Plus getting a haste rune is less of an easy gank with him than with many other mids. Basically you get a fast 6, then you do something with that, then for long stretches of time you have this tide whom you invested a lot of exp and farm into who does almost nothing because ravage is on CD. Then other people get BKB and you still have this "core" tidehunter who is borderline useless and could achieve the exact same thing with no farm. I dunno, assault cuirass feels pretty amazing on Tidehunter in combination with ravage. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On December 12 2013 01:02 Catch]22 wrote: Uhhh... did they remove Skeleton King? yes temporarily | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9110 Posts
Seems like the large satyr is the best to eat for the health regen. And you try to stack one camp to clear with the wildwing ability eventually. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On December 12 2013 13:32 aintz wrote: trolls i would say is one of the best ones for clearing camps fast. those little skeletons do a crapton of dps. I would have thought triple/quad stack then scorched/wildkin tornado would be the best. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
Saving up money enables you to postpone the decision on what to buy to a later time, and you keep money open for a resurrection if necessary. Spending money on item parts immediately gives you the utility of the parts, and keeping your money low means you can't lose it when you die. Does the former outweigh the latter? | ||
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valheru
Australia966 Posts
On December 12 2013 19:17 Scorch wrote: Why do players save up money and buy composite items at one swoop? Saving up money enables you to postpone the decision on what to buy to a later time, and you keep money open for a resurrection if necessary. Spending money on item parts immediately gives you the utility of the parts, and keeping your money low means you can't lose it when you die. Does the former outweigh the latter? Buying all at once gives a degree of surprise. Like a dragon knight saving up and buying a shadow blade is more likely (slightly) to get a kill than a dragon knight who has a claymore in his inventory for 1600 gold. As for other cases probably not worth saving unless you want to make sure you have enough reliable gold for buyback. EDIT: and that's usually only the case in the late game like a lot of things it is really a judgement call, risk of dying without buyback v benefit from next item. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
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