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On December 13 2013 01:20 Laserist wrote:
Disable to sell midas back, problem solved. Otherwise extra xp and reliable gold is too attractive despite of the cost.
The item itself doesn't really require any changes. It's just of players/teams being greedy and the game pace slowing down once T1 towers are down. If there was a way to say continue to exert pressure instead of going into this lull then we wouldn't be seeing so many midas. This may require some kind of game change or players/teams may just have to approach the game/draft differently who knows. It's far too early to say and far too early to start crying for these ridiculously non-intuitive changes.
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On December 13 2013 01:45 Animzor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 01:21 Sn0_Man wrote:On December 13 2013 01:20 Laserist wrote:
Disable to sell midas back, problem solved. Otherwise extra xp and reliable gold is too attractive to buy it. That is an awful solution. Supports who get midas never need the slot but carries who get midas do so all you do is punish carries for buying midas... :/ Isn't that the point?
No the point is to stop supports from mindlessly buying midas because they can, while still having it as a viable way for carries to kick-start their farm if they get a good start.
The proposed change makes carries less likely to buy it without discouraging supports buying it and playing incredibly passively (aka boring).
So its exactly the wrong change. The change that actually happened, on the other hand, might work. Or it might not. We have to see.
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What's a good skillbuild for legion commander (jungling)? Would it be any different from laning her?
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Ult>Passive>Heal>Nuke in jungle, Ult>Heal>Nuke>Passive in lane.
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I play Invoker a bit, and I'm wondering how I should go about a Midas build on him? I've seen both tangos + gloves and tangos + blades of attack for starting items, and I'm wondering what the differences are between the two choices. I'm also not sure what exactly to get afterwards- I've seen phase boots into euls scepter, but are there other options out there that I'm unaware of?
Also, if I'm going to have a tough matchup if I go Invoker mid, should I either repick or use a safer item build? Or is going for a Midas just universally good?
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United States15275 Posts
If you cast Static Charge on yourself, will it proc from self-inflicted damage (that doesn't count as HP Removal)?
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On December 13 2013 04:53 Fencar wrote:
I play Invoker a bit, and I'm wondering how I should go about a Midas build on him? I've seen both tangos + gloves and tangos + blades of attack for starting items, and I'm wondering what the differences are between the two choices. I'm also not sure what exactly to get afterwards- I've seen phase boots into euls scepter, but are there other options out there that I'm unaware of?
Also, if I'm going to have a tough matchup if I go Invoker mid, should I either repick or use a safer item build? Or is going for a Midas just universally good?
Keep in mind that I haven't tested Invoker on the newest patch. I'm not sure if the midas costing more ends up changing some of these things:
You should always go midas first unless you are losing the lane. With the lane in your favor or equal, you'll have it within 6 minutes, or 7 at the latest. If you're up against a fucked lane(skywrath), then bail on midas completely. You might consider bailing on the lane as well and just go quas-wex in the sidelane, and let someone else mid.
the tango + blades of attack was the old build on invoker, where you could afford a tango as well, and you'd just rush into phase boots. This is not a good build anymore considering the awesomeness that is midas and necro in this patch. A better starting build right now is a set of tangos, 3 iron branches, mantle of int and circlet. You can finish this into a null talisman before or after your midas, depending on how you think the lane is going.
What you get next is completely up to you. A good strategy is to choose either one (or two if needed) of Necro, Force staff, euls or drums, and then start on your lategame items such as agh and refresher. I love going 4-0-4-1 with necro on Invoker. Dual forge spirits + necro + cold snap is just ridiculous strong until way late into the game.
edit: Grimorum's guide on dotafire seems to differ from what I just said (he goes blades of attack + tango at the start), and he's pretty much the standard to follow atm with pub Invoker. You might want to check that out.
edit2: I guess he does do it after all. This is a great guide for a ridiculous strong way of playing Invoker right now: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=187341347
again keep in mind new patch and that stuff I haven't had time to test yet. But honestly it shouldn't change much.
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Cool, thanks!
One question- I've been going circlet into a bracer for drums of endurance, (ala iceiceice) and doing pretty well with it, is this still an option or is null talisman just better for the cost?
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The idea is that invokers base attack damage and animation are pretty horrible, so you want to increase your ability to last hit any way you can. If you're last hitting fine with gauntlets versus a mantle, then thats fine, but honestly you should try laning with each option and see which one you prefer. There isn't a "right" answer, as no choice dominates the other.
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On December 12 2013 19:17 Scorch wrote:
Why do players save up money and buy composite items at one swoop?
Saving up money enables you to postpone the decision on what to buy to a later time, and you keep money open for a resurrection if necessary. Spending money on item parts immediately gives you the utility of the parts, and keeping your money low means you can't lose it when you die.
Does the former outweigh the latter?
I do this so I can always spend all of my unreliable gold just before I die. If the components are useful or they're all really cheap (orchid) then I always buy them ASAP as long as I'm only spending unreliable gold. Also when I'm building radiance I always have something else on quickbuy, and I build that instead if I'm going to die before 3800 gold.
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On December 13 2013 08:29 Wonders wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 19:17 Scorch wrote:
Why do players save up money and buy composite items at one swoop?
Saving up money enables you to postpone the decision on what to buy to a later time, and you keep money open for a resurrection if necessary. Spending money on item parts immediately gives you the utility of the parts, and keeping your money low means you can't lose it when you die.
Does the former outweigh the latter? I do this so I can always spend all of my unreliable gold just before I die. If the components are useful or they're all really cheap (orchid) then I always buy them ASAP as long as I'm only spending unreliable gold. Also when I'm building radiance I always have something else on quickbuy, and I build that instead if I'm going to die before 3800 gold.
Some other things to note:
1) Item selection is very situational and sensitive to the state of the game. While people stick to very strict item builds when they start out, increasingly your items should be more variable based on how the game plays out. This means that when you're building large items, you don't want to necessarily commit to them by buying components. You don't want to buy a 1-2k component of a 5k gold item, then realize when you have ~4k gold that the item doesn't suit how the pace of the game has changed and now the component you bought before is now just dead weight.
2) Don't overestimate the value of components. In many cases, middle-tier components to big items are not that cost-effective, and are actually less efficient to have than small filler items you may have gotten early game. As an example--suppose you are a Kunkka with Phase Drum Wand Bottle Lothar and a TP scroll, and you're building your BKB. Pretty much none of the items you have are worth selling to make space for the Ogre Axe. Even the Wand and the Bottle, which are the cheapest items you have, are generally going to outperform a casual Ogre Axe in terms of usefulness in a fight (since the Wand has extremely good effectiveness at 15 charges and the Bottle lets you pick runes).
In this scenario there's no gain from buying the casual Ogre Axe, other than to spend unreliable gold as you're about to die, and even then you only want to make that commitment if you know you're going to die.
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I've heard a lot about Legion jungling but haven't seen it done yet, is it actually a good idea in dota 2? Do you stack a lot of camps or just clear one at a time?
Phase or treads on Legion?
Is there a better general item build on her than phase/treads soulring blink bkb ac/crit?
What skills are removed by her ult (friendly and offensive, on you and on them)?
I saw Yango recommend maxing the heal first as a laner, what's the reasoning on maxing it before the nuke?
Is she a viable mid hero, or should she stick to farming the easy lane?
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Is the Wraith Night patch online yet?
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28100 Posts
On December 13 2013 18:02 SilverSkyLark wrote:
Is the Wraith Night patch online yet?
It's really fun, go play it.
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On December 13 2013 15:42 Nightmarjoo wrote:
I've heard a lot about Legion jungling but haven't seen it done yet, is it actually a good idea in dota 2? Do you stack a lot of camps or just clear one at a time?
Depends on what spawns you get. Stacked camps are harder to clear now though because of how MoC doesn't double proc.
On December 13 2013 15:42 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Phase or treads on Legion?
Both are fine, Phase is necessary if you don't rush Blink, but if you do, Treads are fine.
On December 13 2013 15:42 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Is there a better general item build on her than phase/treads soulring blink bkb ac/crit?
Soul Ring is a waste of money, her mana usage isn't that aggressive. Don't get upgraded Boots before Blink if you're jungling (if you're laning you should, obviously).
On December 13 2013 15:42 Nightmarjoo wrote:
What skills are removed by her ult (friendly and offensive, on you and on them)?
It's the same list as Slark's Dark Pact or Tide's Kraken Shell.
On December 13 2013 15:42 Nightmarjoo wrote:
I saw Yango recommend maxing the heal first as a laner, what's the reasoning on maxing it before the nuke?
If you want to win with LC, you basically need to get Duel ganks in early midgame. If the enemy team gets a chance to 5-man before you've really started snowballing, things get awkward because without Duel stacks and items, the hero is not a strong teamfighter. The nuke is strong in fights, but the damage is quite poor for Duel ganks because you generally don't find people to Duel standing in the center of enormous creep waves.
On December 13 2013 15:42 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Is she a viable mid hero, or should she stick to farming the easy lane?
She could probably Bottle-crow but there's not really much point to going mid. You won't really win lane against anyone, your ganks suck without Blink, and your Blink from mid would be a lot slower than from jungle.
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What items should you aim for on LC? Like, later on, after boots and blink. Attack speed?
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On December 13 2013 19:23 Scalepad wrote:
What items should you aim for on LC? Like, later on, after boots and blink. Attack speed?
Crit or AC should be your best choices.
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Crit is disabled in duel, isn't it?
Blademail rocks, armlet seems good if you're snowballing.
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I was toying around just vs bots last night and didn't like armlet to be honest. It was ok but it seemed kinda superfluous very quickly. That said really feels like she needs health regen from somewhere so I don't know...
However anything that gives you IAS like AC is really, really good. Or just get 3 Hyperstones and a Reaver. ;P
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EPT
