EPTThere was a long and complicated bug report about how PRD is bugged for stacking multiples of a single item type, but I can't find it anymore at the moment.
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 707
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
|
NotYango
United States719 Posts
There was a long and complicated bug report about how PRD is bugged for stacking multiples of a single item type, but I can't find it anymore at the moment. | ||
|
igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On December 06 2013 08:18 NotYango wrote: IIRC it's supposed to be the former, but is the latter in DotA 2. There was a long and complicated bug report about how PRD is bugged for stacking multiples of a single item type, but I can't find it anymore at the moment. That's pretty big, because if you stack an item with C value over .5, that means it will always proc if you have 2. Going to calculate the actual value of 2 stout shields then: base chance of proccing for 60% is C = .33324 the first 2 chances will happen on the first attack .33324 + 2*.33324 * (1-.33324) the 3rd chance will happen on the second attack, and it will always (approximately) happen if the 2 other chances have not procced since 3*.33324 ~1 (1-.33324) * (1-2*.33324) * 2 So the average number of attacks it takes to proc one of two stout shields is .33324 + 2*.33324 * (1-.33324) + (1-.33324) * (1-2*.33324) * 2 = 1.2223777952 So the average chance of one of two stout shields proccing is 1 /1.2223777952 = .818077688, unless I'm doing something wrong. So you get effectively an 82% proc rate, compared to an expected 1-(1-.53)^2 = .7791 One stout shield on average will block 20 * .53 = 10.6 damage, 2 will block 16.36 damage | ||
|
NotYango
United States719 Posts
On December 06 2013 08:22 igotmyown wrote: That's pretty big, because if you stack an item with C value over .5, that means it will always proc if you have 2. Going to calculate the actual value of 2 stout shields then: I found the bug thread I was thinking of: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=95539&page=4&p=641817&viewfull=1#post641817 | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On December 06 2013 02:33 Sn0_Man wrote: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Dota 2 ability toggle console command I really don't think posting a lmgtfy in the SQSA thread is appropriate. The whole point of this thread is for people to ask simple questions. Almost by definition, the majority of those could be answered via google if you tried hard enough. There's no reason to be a dick about it. The questions that can't be answered via google tend to be theorycraft wankery ones that probably shouldn't be asked here anyway, like most of mine... | ||
|
igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On December 06 2013 08:18 NotYango wrote: IIRC it's supposed to be the former, but is the latter in DotA 2. There was a long and complicated bug report about how PRD is bugged for stacking multiples of a single item type, but I can't find it anymore at the moment. I'm not sure that's right, I'm testing 2 vanguards on axe, and the C value is > 50% so 2 vanguards should always block damage below 40 But I'm still occasionally taking damage from a huge stack of small camps (I'm melee of course), from kobold taskmasters and trolls of all things. This should be impossible. | ||
|
NotYango
United States719 Posts
The bug thread I linked has the closest known correct explanation for the PRD inaccuracies with multiple items of the same type with C code for simulations. | ||
|
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On December 04 2013 10:35 njt7 wrote: The most annoying lycans to deal with is split pushing ones and the difference in a 6 slotted item build depends of course on what you are facing and what stage in the game you are. The difference in item choices depends on what you need to do in that specific game that I find these kind of discussions pointless. The question on when, why and with what to exchange your early-mid items with I can get on board with. I would say you can swap your vlads for satanic when you can afford it and still have money for buyback or you feel you wont lose if you die and cant buyback. Thats the most obvious one though not sure with the rest. Is there any situation where you would choose a #1 split pushing Lycan? Feels to me that there are at least a dozen heroes that do that job better. Right now I'm struggling to think of a situation where Lycan would be a good pick. I can only think of him as a tanky #1 roaming ganker at level 6. | ||
|
Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
Does my late game just totally blow or does his usefulness decrease over time? | ||
|
igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On December 06 2013 09:50 sluggaslamoo wrote: Is there any situation where you would choose a #1 split pushing Lycan? Feels to me that there are at least a dozen heroes that do that job better. Right now I'm struggling to think of a situation where Lycan would be a good pick. I can only think of him as a tanky #1 roaming ganker at level 6. He was the most banned (and probably the strongest) hero pre-TI2, so something about him is very strong. | ||
|
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On December 06 2013 11:24 igotmyown wrote: He was the most banned (and probably the strongest) hero pre-TI2, so something about him is very strong. Wasn't that when Lycan was used as a Jungler though? | ||
|
igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
| ||
|
aintz
Canada5624 Posts
| ||
|
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On December 06 2013 12:37 igotmyown wrote: Only in pubs Puppey Lycan  | ||
|
hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
On December 06 2013 10:24 Tachion wrote: Quite often I do very well with timbersaw in the early/mid stages of the game, then I feel like I become much weaker past the 30?+ min mark. In a game right now where I went 9-1 then suddenly I'm 10-6. this happens almost every game it feels like D: Does my late game just totally blow or does his usefulness decrease over time? Yup. Pure damage is great but all nukers fall off. Depending on how you build him though, he can still be a significant influence on the late game (Shiva/Sheep/etc.). | ||
|
govie
9334 Posts
On December 06 2013 12:25 sluggaslamoo wrote: Wasn't that when Lycan was used as a Jungler though? I played one yesterday. He dragged the game on for 30 more minutes. Good thing i was a lich so i could ulti him and his wolves and won the straight up 1v1 fights barely 4 times, defying death yet again (i was lucky)  His team let him down in that match. He even got a 1 lane of rax solo against us. He is horrible to play against, worse then prophet. | ||
|
Sarmis
United States58 Posts
On December 06 2013 14:35 hariooo wrote: Yup. Pure damage is great but all nukers fall off. Depending on how you build him though, he can still be a significant influence on the late game (Shiva/Sheep/etc.). I've been enjoying going Bloodstone/Heart/BKB/Shivas/Boots of Travel on Timbersaw in the late game and making him a split-pusher extraordinaire, who can still swing into the middle of team fights and do sustained damage with his mass tankyness. With timberchain it takes a LOT for a team to catch you out split pushing, and just make sure to always be around for the team fights. They can't catch up to you or run you down, they can't really focus you in a team fight, so you keep on laying down the AOE the entire fight. With your pace and ability to instantly nuke down creep waves, if the early and mid game went well it's pretty doable to get the farm needed. | ||
|
packrat386
United States5077 Posts
| ||
|
makmeatt
2024 Posts
| ||
|
PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
Really a question for notyango. | ||
|
Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Time it takes to attack = Base Attack Time / (1 + IAS). Note that IAS is "percent" so you have to divide it by 100 obviously. IAS comes from agility as well, don't forget that. So to calculate an alchemist's attack speed at level 16 with midas in ult and out of ult it looks like this: Without Ulti: BAT (1.7) / (1 + agi (.29 lul) + midas (.30)) = 1.7/1.59 = 1.07 seconds to attack. Or .935 attacks per second. Wit Ulti: BAT (1.0) / (1 + agi (.29 lul) + midas (.30)) = 1.0/1.59 = 0.63 seconds to attack. Or 1.59 attacks per second. So you can see that Attackspeed and BAT scale together. The lower your BAT is, the more attacks per second IAS gives you. On the other hand, with a low BAT you attack fast enough with NO ITEMS (lol only midas) that maybe scaling damage is better. TL;DR: Your attack speed is directly proportional to your BAT. Low BAT = better attackspeed scaling in terms of attacks per second. Attacks per second = [1 + (IAS including Agility)] all divided by BAT. Okay thats probably still hard to understand but its really simple. Your attacks take your BAT to finish, since everybody starts at 100% Attack Speed. Increased Attack speed (this includes agility) speeds you up, so +300% attack speed gets you to 4 attacks per BAT. So a BAT of 1 will always attack twice as fast as a BAT of 2 assuming the same items/agility. 4 attacks per 1 second versus 4 attacks per 2 seconds, makes sense. PS There's a cap on attackspeed of either +300 or +400 unsure which. I SPOILERED THE FIRST PART CUZ ITS POORLY WRITTEN. What needed to be said should be clearer if you just read the last part lol. PPS theres some minor technicalities I'm ignoring in order to try and make my point "grokkable". Please don't point out minor technicalities that make it harder to understand the system. | ||
| ||
