EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 514
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
| ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On other heroes it will be far more common. | ||
|
Ryhzuo
New Zealand198 Posts
On July 07 2013 12:32 TheYango wrote: I meant on Puck specifically 3 branch Bottle should be rare. Even in competitive play, you'd be hard pressed to find 3 branch Bottle rush starts on Puck--Tango+Salve+3Branch+Mantle or pooled regen+Null Talisman are more common. On other heroes it will be far more common. I still think there are merits to the bottle rush build on heroes like QoP and Puck even if it's not as favored as it once was. Specifically, if you play out the initial 2 waves very well, you can secure a bottle before the 2 minute rune spawn, which is effectively a 6 bottle charge + a rune, something I argue is much more powerful than Null + Salve. On lanes when I know I'll be going up against an inferior hero who cannot contest the runes, I like to bottle rush for this reason alone. | ||
|
Tunga
United States765 Posts
| ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On July 07 2013 13:21 Ryhzuo wrote: I still think there are merits to the bottle rush build on heroes like QoP and Puck even if it's not as favored as it once was. Specifically, if you play out the initial 2 waves very well, you can secure a bottle before the 2 minute rune spawn, which is effectively a 6 bottle charge + a rune, something I argue is much more powerful than Null + Salve. On lanes when I know I'll be going up against an inferior hero who cannot contest the runes, I like to bottle rush for this reason alone. Yeah... I mean, isn't the precise reason that puck et al. don't need to bottle crow because they have good rune control? And isn't that kind of wasted if you don't have the bottle? Idk, I'm sure it's possible to get a 2:00 bottle off tange/salve/mantle/3xgg start, but I don't think it's going to happen consistently. And if the mantle means you don't have time to bottle the rune, I'm sure the bottle rush could still pay off depending on who you're against... | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
If you're against a non-Bottle crow hero that you should otherwise have a close matchup against, going to lane with 1 Salve and 3 Int less should get you pressured on the first wave. You might be able to get your Bottle at at 2:00, but you will give up a lot for it. It's actually conceivable that in a close matchup like Puck vs. QoP, if one side gets a Bottle rush start, the other can use their Salve+Mantle advantage to get Bottle at the same time due to the massive difference in level 1-2 strength (can force a hard trade at level 1, then Salve and free-farm a wave while you have to wait for Tango healing). If you're in a hard matchup you want to stalemate, then Bottle rush start can be correct. But this is already rarely the case with Puck because he does not have many matchups that are so one-sided that he should try to stalemate. The majority of matchups he wins or are close enough to be decided by player skill or by how level 1-2 plays out. Only something outrageously hopeless like OD (and even then most pub ODs will be awful and you can still win those) should demand Bottle rush. Fundamentally a bottle-rush start is looking to stalemate because you give up a LOT of level 1 strength by not having a Mantle and a Salve. Obviously, if you go for a Bottle-rush start, and are not punished for it, then you will come out ahead, but if your opponent misplays to that degree, then you probably could have found a greater advantage by abusing their misplays with a more powerful level 1 start. | ||
|
Ryder.
1117 Posts
| ||
|
Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
| ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
It's weak if your fight power isn't strong enough yet and you have to run/kite, not giving you enough autoattacking time for lifesteal to be worth it. | ||
|
Zuxo
Sweden395 Posts
| ||
|
734pot
Australia294 Posts
On July 07 2013 21:56 Zuxo wrote: I know that this might have been asked but I can't find it so here it goes: Can you make it so that you can see the range of all spells (you know the green circle around the hero) and if so how do you do that? Thanks. I don't think so, I'm pretty sure the dota_range_display command was disabled as well. | ||
|
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
| ||
|
Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
| ||
|
Zuxo
Sweden395 Posts
Some questions about batrider. What starting items are the best when you jungle and when you offlane/go mid? | ||
|
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
| ||
|
Zuxo
Sweden395 Posts
| ||
|
Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
On July 07 2013 22:53 Zuxo wrote: Okay thanks! I just watched this video btw and what do you think about that (it is kind of outdated) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mkeODAAfcg Seems good. I'd rather have bottle first like Firebolt said though. You don't have to run back to base at the start, and you could see him get really low on hp for a bit there. Also I'm not sure what I feel about tranquil boots into bottle in general. I'd rather grab an earlier bottle and blink, and then over to phase or threads. | ||
|
Zuxo
Sweden395 Posts
| ||
|
Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
On July 07 2013 23:49 Zuxo wrote: Yeah I just tried out bottle and it felt a lot better then going boots first I take back what I said above. You need boots first if you're going to do it this way. You wont be able to stack both camps otherwise. But I'd still go bottle second instead of tranquil. | ||
|
Cyx.
Canada806 Posts
On July 07 2013 23:50 Excludos wrote: I take back what I said above. You need boots first if you're going to do it this way. You wont be able to stack both camps otherwise. But I'd still go bottle second instead of tranquil. It's been a while since I tried jungling Bat but from what I remember tranquils aren't really necessary if you're just sitting in the jungle - if you get in fights before level 6 at all, though, tranquils can really help you get back into the jungle without wasting time going back to base to heal. | ||
| ||
